[CP] µ12: Gameplay Discussion

[argilium]

http://twitpic.com/bjibud

OOOOOOPS

kamoihito tweeted it, along with this

"センちゃんのアイデアを取り入れたらμちゃんでこのダメージである。最大溜めツルギ始動だからあり得ないけどね。"

i cant read moonspeak but have fun with your broke ass char

It says there that the combo started with fully charged Tsurugi.. pretty unlikely to happen.. unless some scrub fell for it..

Edited December 6, 2012 by argilium

[Zeromus_X]

Lol, people bitching already. Looks like another year of saltiness. Loving the look of those back-airdash cancel combos.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Lol, people bitching already. Looks like another year of saltiness. Loving the look of those back-airdash cancel combos.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Tecta1Eastside

[susano]

OOOOOOH, THOSE COMBOOOOOS.

I am extremely giddy. o-o

[Diveman]

One of those combos...didn't combo. Was it an unblockable reset or something?

[susano]

One of those combos...didn't combo. Was it an unblockable reset or something?

It could be.

[Chaoschao222]

One of those combos...didn't combo. Was it an unblockable reset or something?

It's also possible that it was displaying the fact that it doesn't combo, I remember some old Noel vids of the same theme would intentionally show some combos that didn't work.

[farranpoison]

Backdash Cancel the air stein set, dashing over them and linking j.c after tachi's launch.

I get that, and I was doing the same things as that nicovid. But they just showed the Ikutachi > jD > bdc > jC > j2C in the corner, while the combo before says to do jD > bdc > jC > 5B, and I have no idea how the hell you're supposed to link 5B after the jC. Look at the vids, there's no way that link works, unless I'm missing something.

[Tecta1Eastside]

I get that, and I was doing the same things as that nicovid. But they just showed the Ikutachi > jD > bdc > jC > j2C in the corner, while the combo before says to do jD > bdc > jC > 5B, and I have no idea how the hell you're supposed to link 5B after the jC. Look at the vids, there's no way that link works, unless I'm missing something.

It could be a mistake the guy wrote. just go ahead and do what you see.

[Nemesis]

Is it me or is Omohikane doing like really low dmg?

[hakimiru]

What the hell does "bdc" mean? I assume it means backdash cancel after the jD but for the life of me I can't figure out how to connect 5B after a jC after a air backdash. I can do jC j2C instead but they tech before I can land and do 5B.

Sorry, I don't know. No one on jbbs has said anything about it. I double-checked, and I do have it transcribed correctly.

Is it me or is Omohikane doing like really low dmg?

Minimum damage seems to be in the 600~900 range, so probably not just you.

New posts, up to #376:

=

Most damage I could get from 5B for now:

5B>5C>Tsurugi>5C>2C>J2C>2C>6C>Ikutachi>J6D>backdash JC>J2C>3C>Stein>J2C>JD, 4458 dmg

Does 5300 if you change the ender to 3C>Omohikane.

Still working to see if it will go higher

=

Corner 6B OD combo with no Steins out:

6B>6C>5D>Tsunugui>rc>OD>microdash 6A>(beam hit)>lots of Habakiri

Since even uncharged beams seem to have longer untechable time than random C hits, Habakiri connects easily. Although you need to hit with only the tip of 6A, or else the next Habakiri will end up going behind the opponent and missing.

Does around 3300 with 2 Habakiri loops, with additional Habakiris adding around 700 damage each. Not sure if there's a minimum damage, but from the P2, you should be able to tack on around 3000 with 5-6 loops.

If you already have Steins out, Tsurugi slide>rc>Habakiri combos, so you can probably go into it from that as well.

3C>low air Tsunugui>rc>Habakiri combos too.

=

Combo for whole cast:

2B>3C>Tsurugi>5C>2C>JC>J2C>2B>5C>6C>5D>JA>JB>JC>jc>JC>J2C>Tsunugui

If you change the ender to J2C into falling Habakiri, you can use it to obscure your next mixup.

=

JCch>5C>6C>Ikutachi goes into the same route as 6B starter.

Damage was over 3000 maybe? (very iffy)

=

Some tricks with Steins:

When beams are blocked, there's some directional knockback based on where the Stein they came from is located. As such, if you end a corner combo with something like J2C>JD>J2D, when the second beam hits or is blocked, a gap opens up between the opponent and the wall. You can use this gap for IAD/Ikutachi crossovers, allowing for some potentially interesting oki setups.

=

I forgot a 5C and the damage the last time I posted this, so some clarification:

2B or 5B>5C>3C>Tsurugi>5C>2C>JC>J2C>2B>5C>6C>5D>JA>JB>JC>jc>JC>J2C>Tsunugui

Damage: 2B starter 3590, 5B starter 4415

I also tried the no-Stein starter OD combo listed above. The max I could get was 38 hits, anything more and it became techable before Habakiri came out. Damage was ~6100.

I might be mistaken, but it seemed to generally become techable at around the 34 hit mark depending on how the hits landed.

With Omohikane ender it was 62 hits for ~7300 damage. The combo itself generates around 40% meter, so you only need to start with about 60% to do the full thing.

=

Midscreen crouching,

5B>5C>6C>Ikutachi>microdash 2B>6A>6B>microdash 5C>2C comboed.

Damage was a little over 3000 at this point, so probably ~4000 with Omohikane ender.

Tsunugui feels like the only aerial ender that would work.

=

OD combos in the corner with Steins out do a ton of damage.

From J2C>J5D(charge)>OD,

6B>6C>Charged beam>Habakiri>Habakiri loop>Omohikane

2B>5B>3C>Charged beam>Habakiri>Habakiri loop>Omohikane

These did about 8000~8500 in training mode with the lowest health setting.

Charged beams fire with their original timing even in OD, so Charged beam>Habakiri is easy to connect and you don't have to worry about the timing shifting.

The loop count will decrease, but it should easily work from a hit-confirm>OD as well.

=

(Summarizing, but apparently with the sped up JD cancel timing and Stein level increase, raining lasers is a lot easier and stronger now. You can loop 5D->JD->air backdash JD->JD before landing, etc.)

=

For 6B starter,

6B＞6C＞Ikutachi＞J6D＞bdc＞JC＞J2C＞3C＞low airdash＞JC＞J2C＞2B＞6A＞Tsurugi (~3000)

Carries about 70% of the screen and has good meter gain, so pretty useful. 2B has to hit fairly deep, or the 6A will miss. Works on Rachel and Makoto too, who tend to have bad air hitboxes.

[bakahyl]

Is it me or is Omohikane doing like really low dmg?

I am sure it's stated that it's min. damage was nerfed from 1200 to 900

[TD]

like she needs minimum damage. ha.

combos still look derpy but very cool to watch.

[farranpoison]

Sorry, I don't know. No one on jbbs has said anything about it. I double-checked, and I do have it transcribed correctly.

That's fine, the combos coming out now all seem to have Ikutachi > jD > bdc > jC > j2C so I guess no one's using 5B anymore.

[C0R]

5b is pretty bad prorate for it's damage, 6a is usually the go-to choice.

I get that, and I was doing the same things as that nicovid. But they just showed the Ikutachi > jD > bdc > jC > j2C in the corner, while the combo before says to do jD > bdc > jC > 5B, and I have no idea how the hell you're supposed to link 5B after the jC. Look at the vids, there's no way that link works, unless I'm missing something.

j.c is very untechable, you can link a bunch of stuff after it at the right heights. I made a CS2 combo using j.c > \/ 5c

[NemesisZeru]

Well, I was told this can still be used as discussion for non-CP versions, so here I go...

After talking with some dustloop people, I want to give Mu(CSE) a shot. I really like the idea of using Steins to lock down the opponent and pressure them into mistakes...but I have no clue how to do that. I mean, I've learned a few things from the dustloop wiki(Like 6D>Explosion for a long ranged poke, and a.2d is apparently an OTG laser), but I'm still not exactly sure how to use the other Ds for locking people down. If anyone could link me to a topic/post where how to properly use steins is discussed, or can in general help me out, I'd really appreciate it. :3c

[farranpoison]

Ugh man, so many bad games tonight. Got bodied by pretty much everyone in the arcade. I need JP players to watch so I can see what the hell I'm doing wrong in matchups like Amane and Bullet. And if only I could remember to cancel blocked C attacks with steins... oh, and actually land the midscreen Ikutachi combos and not drop them like a noob.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Ugh man, so many bad games tonight. Got bodied by pretty much everyone in the arcade. I need JP players to watch so I can see what the hell I'm doing wrong in matchups like Amane and Bullet. And if only I could remember to cancel blocked C attacks with steins... oh, and actually land the midscreen Ikutachi combos and not drop them like a noob.

Dont sweat it. Her combos changed a little and you just picked her up.

This footage might help you out. There getting used to her new combos.

http://www.twitch.tv/adastream/b/345973036

Mu-12 gameplay starts at 1:18:00 and last for 42 mins when the stream ends.

Edit: The actual matches are u-12 vs bullet, azreal, mu-12 mirror, v-13, and bang i believe.

Everything else in between is training mode i believe.

Bullet@ 1:23:45

Azrael@1:36:45-1:51:52

U-12 mirror@ 1:52:30 Astral finish

v-13@ 1:55:16

Bang @ 1:58:04

Azrael seems interesting since his reversal can be used for absorbing our projectiles.

He also throw a projectile back at us after absorbing them.

He can confirm his projectile into his distortion.

It will whiff if he is full screen.

You can also CH Azrael if you hit him before he ends the dp portal move or whatever it is.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Tecta1Eastside

[Zeromus_X]

Does 5C combo into 6C without crouching now? Near 1:24:00, it looked like Bullet got hit by a low and 5C > 6C still connected, would be crazy broken. Or maybe she just "fuzzy-lowed" herself by blocking high during the laser's blockstun, it kind of looked like she was in a crouching animation but hard to tell. It looks like Ikutachi is kind of spacing dependent to combo off 6C midscreen, I saw it whiff a few times after comboing from max range 5C > 6C, but it could be character hitbox specific too.

I wonder if Azreal's fireball can pierce Habaya. Edit: Ew, TK Habaya looks awful for pressure now. Looks like we'll need some stein backup to make it safe. 5D > j2C > air Habaya looks more legit if they're scared to hit buttons, or at least that Mu was using it a lot because nobody tried to hit them out of the startup. Also I saw TK Totsuka used a couple times, I wonder if air Totsuka has less recovery than ground version?

Loving her new combos now that I can actually see them in action, loving the air backdash cancels and 3C > IAD jC routes. Crouching, CH, and overhead damage looks awesome, curious what she can get off of 6A, 2C, and jC CHs now. Looks like her damage is still strong but her oki and guard crush capabilities are a little weaker due to the changes to 214D and the system mechanics, Habaya having seemingly CS1 startup and different trajectory means less autopilot zoning too. Still, loving the new Mu so far, looks like she'll still be really strong, fun, and have lots of variety now. Hopefully we can get some match vids off of Nico soon.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Zeromus_X

[C0R]

I don't know if you guys just missed or overlooked it or thought it wasn't important, but this is by far the biggest, and best change the character has seen yet:

Some tricks with Steins:

When beams are blocked, there's some directional knockback based on where the Stein they came from is located. As such, if you end a corner combo with something like J2C>JD>J2D, when the second beam hits or is blocked, a gap opens up between the opponent and the wall. You can use this gap for IAD/Ikutachi crossovers, allowing for some potentially interesting oki setups.

This means µ will have corner 5-way mixup based on a completely invisible offscreen stein's firing timing.

Does 5C combo into 6C without crouching now? Near 1:24:00, it looked like Bullet got hit by a low and 5C > 6C still connected, would be crazy broken.

She's crouching, though I know her standing animation is pretty deceptive.

I wonder if Azreal's fireball can pierce Habaya. Edit: Ew, TK Habaya looks awful for pressure now. Looks like we'll need some stein backup to make it safe.

Habaya has multiple hit instances, so I'm confident it will overpower the successive greater projectile power of Phalanx Cannon.

EDIT: Confirmed - http://www.twitch.tv/adastream/b/345973036?t=98m55s

Grounded Habaya is better for keepaway and for using as a meaty, so it looks like we'll have to prioritize that one more, though the µ player in the video wasn't using habayaa at an optimal tk height for it to be plus or safe at all.

As for guard crush, remember that if she has 50 meter she can just put out a meaty Totsuka and do 2 CT's in a row!

After talking with some dustloop people, I want to give Mu(CSE) a shot. I really like the idea of using Steins to lock down the opponent and pressure them into mistakes...but I have no clue how to do that. I mean, I've learned a few things from the dustloop wiki(Like 6D>Explosion for a long ranged poke, and a.2d is apparently an OTG laser), but I'm still not exactly sure how to use the other Ds for locking people down. If anyone could link me to a topic/post where how to properly use steins is discussed, or can in general help me out, I'd really appreciate it. :3c

It's less which D you use and more being aware of when your steins will hit. Because all steins have the same tracking and equivalent firing speeds [excepting 5d], using steins in neutral or for pressure all comes down to experience and knowing what your options are when they're on the screen.

Oki Setups are a great way to learn how to use steins though, as most of the timings are intuitive and already built into the character's combos.

Edited December 7, 2012 by C0R

[bakahyl]

Is it me or does the recovery on Totsuka seem longer and the laser move faster? If so, totsuka looks less usefull as a tool to rush down your opponent safely unless you have like 3 or so tactically placed steins to cover lots of distance for your totsuka.

Right now in extend, i could cover myself with 2 and in some occasions 1 stein with totsuka blade, but it seems less viable in CP

Edited December 7, 2012 by bakahyl

[C0R]

Totsuka laser is much faster, as well as the recovery being longer. This essentially means that it's not as good for rushing down. However it is better for combos!

In addition, keep in mind that TK Totsuka is now a superior option, as the air version has much less recovery.

[susano]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsP4QRY-ZP4&feature=g-high-u

Lots of Mu action. Dora as Mu made me giggle just a little bit.

I guess someone beat me to it...?

[pochp]

Damn Mu's combos are pretty hype... Big thanks for the translations Hakimiru.

Well, I was told this can still be used as discussion for non-CP versions, so here I go...

After talking with some dustloop people, I want to give Mu(CSE) a shot. I really like the idea of using Steins to lock down the opponent and pressure them into mistakes...but I have no clue how to do that. I mean, I've learned a few things from the dustloop wiki(Like 6D>Explosion for a long ranged poke, and a.2d is apparently an OTG laser), but I'm still not exactly sure how to use the other Ds for locking people down. If anyone could link me to a topic/post where how to properly use steins is discussed, or can in general help me out, I'd really appreciate it. :3c

In addition to what C0R said, you might want to try (5d 236a dash 6d 236d dash)xN see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV3IIDPjUGM#t=4m48s. Of course you can't autopilot that infinitely, just react to what happens, but it can lock down players until they figure out how to get out. Once you get used to it, combine it things you picked up from the corner setups, and hatemail will start appearing. Anyways have fun with it in CSEX because the changes don't make it seem as good in BBCP

[Tecta1Eastside]

kawata ( hazama ) VS serizawa ( mu-12 )

BBCP 12/7/2012 Tachikawa Singles Part 2/4

@pochp

u made a ex oki tutorial vid.

Wouldnt that help zeru out?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agk5UuSUlr8

Edited December 8, 2012 by Tecta1Eastside