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[CP] µ12: Gameplay Discussion

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Regarding the setups in that video, does anyone who's messed around with them know how to get the opponent to stay in front of Mu after she does Ikutachi? I'm trying to alter my bnbs to incorporate those setups but I keep getting Mu stuck in the corner after Ikutachi, which is not what you want lol.

Edit: Finally nailed it. Kept thinking I had to delay the Ikutachi, turns out the steins I was using are wrong. Need to do Ikutachi > j5D > j6[D] to make Mu stay in the air a bit longer before the opponent techs so they stay in the corner.

With that said, here's a transcript of the combo video. Not sure on a couple things, since some of the steins used in the combos are offscreen, so I put a question mark next to anything uncertain. I will mess around with these and note any of my findings. You can enter these setups by altering the regular corner bnb just a bit. Example: 2B > 5C > SoD > dash 2B > 5C > 2C > sj2C > dash 2B > 6A > (delay) 5C > jD (D hits) > j2C > 3C > Ikutachi > j5D > j6[D]

(midscreen) 5B > 5C > 3C > cOD > 5B > 6A > IAD > jB > jC > j2C > dash 2B > 5C > 6C > 2D > SoD > dash 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]...(2.9k)

(no tech) 2B > 5C > 2C (D hits) > jC > j2C ([D] hits) > dash 2C > j2C > 2B > 5C > 6C > 2D > SoD > dash 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]...((3.5k)

(forward roll) 2B > 5C > 5D (D hits) > hjC > jB ([D] hits), land (turn around) > jC > j2C > dash 2B > 5C > 6C > 2D > SoD > dash 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]...((3.5k)

(forward roll) 2B > 5C > 5D > IAD jB > jC, land (D and [D] hit) > superjump falling jC > j2C > 2B > 5C > 6C > 2D > SoD > dash 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]...((3.5k)

(corner crossup) Ikutachi > 6D? > ABDC > jC > j2C > 3C > 6D > SoD > dash 2C > 4[D] > jB > jC > j2C > j[D] > ([D] hits) > 6A > 5C > 2C > jC > j2C ([D] hits) > 2C > Omoikane (5.4k)

(overhead into setup) 6B > 6C > SoD > dash 2B > 5C > 2C > sj2C > jD > dash 2B > (delay) 6A > (delay) 5C > 5D (D hits) > j2C > 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]...

(low confirm with lasers) 2B > 5B > 6B (D hits) > 2[D] ([D] hits) > 5C > 3C > jump cancel ([D] hits) > falling jC > land 5C > 6C > 2D > SoD > dash 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]... (3.8k) [this one doubles as a mixup that combos into the same setup, see below]

(overhead confirm with lasers) 6B (D hits) > 5D ([D] hits) > SoD > dash 2B > 5C > 2C > sj2C > jD > 2B > 6A > (delay) 5C > 5D > j2C > 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]... (3.8k)

(corner IAD crossup) 5B (blocked) > IAD (D gets blocked, crossup) > 2B > 3C > 214D ([D] hits) > dash under 6A > 2C > sj2C > jD > 2B > 6A > (delay) 5C > 5D > j2C (D hits) > 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]... (3.3k)

(stagger low confirm) 2B 5B (blocked) > dash 2B (D blocked) > 5B > 3C ([D] hits) > SoD > dash 6A > 5C > 2C > sj2C > 2B > 6A > (delay) 5C > 5D > j2C > 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]... (3.8k)

(overhead RC low confirm) 2B 5B dash 2B 5B (blocked) > 6B(1) ([D] hits)> RC > 2B > 3C > SoD > dash 6A > 5C > 2C > sj2C > 2B > 6A > (delay) 5C > 5D > j2C > 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]...

(IAD low confirm) 2B 5B dash 2B 5B (blocked) > IAD ([D] blocked) > 2B > 3C > SoD > dash 2B > 5C > 2C > sj2C > jD > 2B > 6A > 6B(1) > 5D > j2C (D hits) > 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]... (3.2k)

(Guard Cancel/throw bait) 2B 5B (blocked) > j2C CH > dash 2B ([D] hits) > 3C > SoD > dash 2B > 2C > sj2C > jD > 2B > 6A > (delay) 5C > 5D (D hits) > j2C > 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]... (3.7k)

(immediate low > OD confirm) 2B > 5B > 6B (D hits) > 5D > jump cancel cancel OD ([D] hits) > 5C > 3C > 214D (D hits) > 5D > 214D > dash 5D > 4D > 214D > 5D > 4D > 214D > j2C > 2C > OD Omoikane (7.3k, 40% HP OD)

(near corner anti-air) 6A > 2C > j2C > dash 2B > 5C > 2C > sj2C > jD > 2B > 6A > 6B(1) > 5D > (D hits) > j2C > 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]... (3.2k)

(overhead > OD confirm) 2B 5B (blocked) > 6B (D hits) > 5D > jump cancel cancel OD ([D] hits) > dash 5C > 3C > 214D (D hits) > 5D > 214D > dash 5D > 4D > 214D > 5D > 214D > 5D > 214D > j2C > OD Omoikane (7.3k, 40% HP OD)

(low confirm into setup) 2B > 3C > SoD > dash 2B > 5C > 2C > sj2C > jD > 2B > 6A > (delay) 5C > 5D (D hits) > j2C > 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]... (3.2k)

(immediate throw > OD confirm) B+C (D hits) > OD ([D] hits) > sjB > jC > jB > djC > jB (Ds hit) > j2C > j214D > dash 5C > OD Omoikane (40% HP OD)

(back to corner, corner swap into setup) 2B > 3C > RC > walk 5B > 6A > IAD jB > jC > land crossunder 6A > j2C > dash 2B > 5C > 6C > 2D > SoD > dash 3C > Ikutachi jD j6[D]... (2.8k)

(alternate overhead > OD) 2B 5B (blocked) > 6B (D hits) > 5D > jump cancel cancel OD ([D] hits) > dash 5C > 3C > 214D (D hits) > 5D > 214D > dash 5D > 4D > 214D > [5D > 214D]x2 > j2C > OD Omoikane (7.2k, 40% HP OD)

(impractical swag > Astral) 2B > 3C > cOD > dash 2A > 6A > IAD > jB > jC > land dash 6A crossunder > IAD > jB > jC > land dash 6A crossunder > IAD jB > jC > j2C > dash 3C > 222D

Edited by Zeromus_X

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pochp and bakahyl : Thank you for taking the time to look and for the advice.

I jump too often I've seen in other matchs where the opponent anti-air me a lot of time...

I will rework my combos according to different starter for knockdown and not end up with an opponent who can tech.

I am very reluctant to DP RC because I feel to use the meter to cover my mistakes punishments. I would hesitate less now.

Speaking about meter, perhaps more than CT for open custody?

J2c is that good?

For the defense, i know, i don't where i punish...as stated bakahyl I try to punish where I can not. Must review my options. I often miss my backdash, bad times.

Moreover, backdash/5c is good to use or not?

Direction to find laboratory setups after [d] and above have different options. It is true that I usually have two headers ...

For the mixup, I do not use much the 6a. Ex : 2b > 6a > 5b or 2b > 6a > 5b > 2b. And maybe more 5b?

I have a little trouble keeping the advantage in corner, I do not have too many setups for it. I'm going to do with the video Bakahyl found Zeromus_X and a "translated".

In midscreen I will also try what someonewhodied noted with X> 5C/2C> 3C (Must hit with further half of it)> 6 [d]> IAD

I remember your videos CSEX, they were great. I'll also go see them again. I can only encourage a new video for you when you have time.

Sorry for my english...

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Regarding the setups in that video, does anyone who's messed around with them know how to get the opponent to stay in front of Mu after she does Ikutachi? I'm trying to alter my bnbs to incorporate those setups but I keep getting Mu stuck in the corner after Ikutachi, which is not what you want lol.

Edit: Finally nailed it. Kept thinking I had to delay the Ikutachi, turns out the steins I was using are wrong. Need to do Ikutachi > j5D > j6[D] to make Mu stay in the air a bit longer before the opponent techs so they stay in the corner.

j.2D after tachi works too. j.2D is better if you are going for a crush trigger setup.

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Haven't seen Dio vids in a while but his Mu is even better now : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL8haBs_q-E great example of the "planning" I was talking about. Another thing I noticed, maybe I'm wrong but, watching Serizawa this time, is that on some starters even on crouching he won't combo into Tachi, when the opponent has a burst and he's near the corner to avoid getting bursted on, and being knocked down in the corner. I think I'll start doing this too, I feel like it's a risk I don't need to take, that leads to some losses.

@Malaka :

DP RC is great because you just take the advantage from your opponent. Don't rely on it too much against stronger players because they will bait DP harder when you have 50 meter. That said, you can also take advantage of that to escape pressure, but you have to show them you're willing to DP. Do like DP RC 5c and then if it hits, 6c tachi etc. on block like 5c 236a or 5c 5d jump or something like that.

J.2C is that good, check the video I linked, Dio uses it well at neutral.

Sometimes you don't need to do anything besides block to punish. Sword of Decimation is bad on block for the one using it, so just block it and you have some advantage after. This is the case for a lot of situations in the game, especially like, when your opponent tries to call out your jumps or other actions besides blocking.

Backdash 5c is good, do it until your opponent shows you he knows how to deal with it.

Don't forget, you can only use 2b once per string, that's why you want to use it late. Something like, dash 6a 5b 2b might catch them expecting an overhead.

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A big thank you for all the advice. I'll work on it and when I have made progress I'll post it.

Dio uses a lot of 214d, either for neutral or combo, i love! 5d > 2d > j2c all the days. By against, at times it enormously spam steins.

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Hello everyone.

Just wanted to inform everyone that (though this has already begun), I won't be as active over the coming months. This is due to my newfound broadcasting work and developments at Riot Games. I fully entrust Pedro with any developments that may arise during my spotty attendance in the coming future.

I'll definitely still drop by every couple days to check developments and answer questions, so no funerals yet.

super late here but grats cor I hope everything goes well for you!

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Hey Guys, at the moment I'm learning MU-12, but I didn't have time to sift through all the pages of info (You guys are mad active). So excuse me if I ask something that's already been adressed.

Anyways, I was wondering if there are characters/what are the characters that have really wonky hitboxes for Mu. The type of characters I need to do variants of combos on. (I think I can assume some of the combos I'm not doing aren't optimal anyway lol.) I have issues comboing Terumi/Hazama with some of the combos I do know (which I believe are some BnB's.) But I just want to be aware for when I start to learn more optimal combos/setups. So who are some of the characters that give you guys the most trouble. Thanks in advance for any answers.

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Hey Guys, at the moment I'm learning MU-12, but I didn't have time to sift through all the pages of info (You guys are mad active). So excuse me if I ask something that's already been adressed.

Anyways, I was wondering if there are characters/what are the characters that have really wonky hitboxes for Mu. The type of characters I need to do variants of combos on. (I think I can assume some of the combos I'm not doing aren't optimal anyway lol.) I have issues comboing Terumi/Hazama with some of the combos I do know (which I believe are some BnB's.) But I just want to be aware for when I start to learn more optimal combos/setups. So who are some of the characters that give you guys the most trouble. Thanks in advance for any answers.

Amane and Bang are usually the ones that stuff wont work on. Tsubaki and Izayoi I feel have a weird vertical hitbox that makes the timing of the hits on some combos different, because the lasers will hit them earlier, or they become too high for 6a 6b, and also makes high 6c 5[d] not a safejump. Other than that, Valk, Haz, Carl, and Azrael for some reason give me some trouble in random places, I can't say specifically what besides back throw dash 6a on haz. If you're trying the midscreen BnB off charged stein, it's unstable on Rachel, but everything else is ok on her. That's all I can think of for now.

In CS, some combos wouldn't work on Tager, but that hasn't been an issue yet, thankfully. Dash 2b crossunder still doesn't work on him though.

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I had minor issues doing the "H.H route" corner combo on Jin, because you have to time j.a slightly different on him than most other characters (and that combo doesn't even work on Amane)

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I had minor issues doing the "H.H route" corner combo on Jin, because you have to time j.a slightly different on him than most other characters (and that combo doesn't even work on Amane)

I noticed that when I was playing an Amane. I thought I screwed my timing up or something. .__.

I'll experiment in the lab and see who it works on. Keba's corner route is kinda tough for me. H.H's stuff seems easier.

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Doubt it, plane tickets are sooo expensive right now, 550+... Think I'll stick to what's in driving range this year, so like ECT, Toryuken, UMAD, maybe Winter Brawl... and planning on saving up for Evo too.

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Doubt it, plane tickets are sooo expensive right now, 550+... Think I'll stick to what's in driving range this year, so like ECT, Toryuken, UMAD, maybe Winter Brawl... and planning on saving up for Evo too.

Consider UFGT maybe? Not sure if that's driving range though, but it may be cheap to fly to?

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I saw 2 videos with IxisNaugus play in the Apex 2014 tournament and it was interesting to watch. Mynus' litchi didnt care about or respect your setups at all and you probably should have gone for different corner oki's but still well played

edit: not sure if it's allowed to post links of these videos but if not then a mod can delete it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksueAM7420o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KEDh3I_W8I&t=10m19s

later edit: i have more been using SoD 2b 6a 6b (5d, 4d or just any stein) dp in the corner with a bad starter (laser, habakiri, 2a , 5a) instead of SoD 5c 6c (any stein) dp to tack on slightly more damage and meter gain

Edited by bakahyl

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Yeah, good stuff Ixis. It's nice to see a Mu play solid and place highly in an event.

Speaking of events, any Mu players going to SCR? Although it seems the majority of us are on the East Coast.

later edit: i have more been using SoD 2b 6a 6b (5d, 4d or just any stein) dp in the corner with a bad starter (laser, habakiri, 2a , 5a) instead of SoD 5c 6c (any stein) dp to tack on slightly more damage and meter gain

I've taken to using this ender off short starters in the corner as well. You can even do a nice safejump with jB after the DP wallbounce.

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Videos are cool too in this thread. The other thread is mostly for posting, this thread is preferable for any discussion, and might as well link the video if we want to talk about it.

later edit: i have more been using SoD 2b 6a 6b (5d, 4d or just any stein) dp in the corner with a bad starter (laser, habakiri, 2a , 5a) instead of SoD 5c 6c (any stein) dp to tack on slightly more damage and meter gain

I like it too, because when you SoD close enough to the corner it's worth it for the extra damage. On the other hand, 5c 6c 2d DP can be done at a farther range, so you can add more normals before. Just a few tests depending on how you hitconfirm it (tested on Mu), the difference is not very significant, but I think it's worth knowing both and the ranges at which they work best.

2a 2b 2c 5c SoD 5c 6c 2d DP 2538

2a 2b 5c SoD 2b 6a 6b 5d DP 2474

2a 6a 2c 5c SoD 5c 6c 2d DP 2735

2a 6a 5c SoD 2b 6a 6b 5d DP 2668

dash 2a 5c 2c 3c SoD 5c 6c 2d DP 2794

dash 2a 5c 2c 3c SoD 2b 6a 6b 5d DP 2961

2a 6a 2b 5c SoD 5c 6c 2d DP 2462

2a 6a 2b 2c SoD 2b 6a 6b 5d DP 2616

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Hi, I'm a new player trying to learn Mu and I've been reading these forums for about a month, but I'm still having a lot of trouble understanding and executing her Oki game. If someone could explain her setups and options, or direct me to an appropriate post, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

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I'll start working on a video to help explain setups and oki when I finish with this video for combos. I'm done recording, but I need to find a computer that can edit 720p without lagging... In the meantime, here's a short answer :

Midscreen :

There are characters/players that you feel like you can beat at neutral. Don't bother running oki on them, just end combos with Sword of Decimation, and set up a lot of steins. You don't want to take the risk that you'll guess wrong and give up the advantage. Ex :

2a 2b 2c 5c SoD 5d 4d 236a

Otherwise, here are a few things you can do :

2a 2b 2c 5c SoD dash meaty 2b - you can do the 2b earlier to catch rolls, it's not very tight, but worth it against valk, haz, tao, and staffless litchi, at least.

...6c 5d 2d SoD - they block SoD, then the lasers from 5d and 2d come out and keep them in place.

...6c 5d SoD dash 2d 214d - if they don't wake up right, they'll get hit by 5d and it'll combo into 214d.

...6c 5[d] j.c - depending on height and character, can be a safejump, and then you get good mixup options. - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spdcw1ZK00M

...not lowest j.2c j.5d dash meaty 2b - same as first one, except you have a laser to hitconfirm or continue your blockstring. Ex : ...2b 5b 3c ]d[ airdash j.c j.2c

...j.2c dash crossunder 2b whiff - alternative option on j.2c, the crossunder gives a nice mixup, and is also the same timing to catch back rolls. You can also 2b earlier to fake the crossup.

...6c ikutachi j.5d dash crossunder 2b whiff - mix of the two ones above, you get a mixup and a laser to help get a full combo. ex : 2b 3c ]d[ j.b j.c j.2c etc.

Corner :

The advantage here is you can generally cover more options than midscreen, so it's usually worth going for. There are once again too many setups to list everything, so here are a few ideas to get you started. First, here's a basic setup for a bad starter :

-2a 2b 5c SoD 5c 6c 2d 623c jump forward barrier, then either airdash j.b/j.2c or land 2b - safejump, as you're blocking, and then if they don't immediately reversal, they block the laser from 2d, and you can mix them up. If they block this mixup, you're still in a good position.

Here's how to safejump 9f reversals off anything :

-throw 5c 2c j.b j.c dj.c j.2c land j.b/j.c

-6b 6c SoD 6a 5c 2c j.b j.c dj.c j.2c land j.b/j.c

-2b 5c SoD 5c 2c j.c j.2c 2b 6a 6b 5d j.a j.b j.c dj.c j.2c land j.b/j.c

Standard setups, these are all done off a j.2c that is higher than minimum height, so either like j.c j.2c, sj.2c, dj.2c, delay j.2c, etc.

-2d 6d 2b 3c neutral jump (block) - baits counterassault, then, on hit, wait for the steins to hit, keep blocking in case they burst, then do like j.c j.2c etc. on block you can do an airdash mixup, so either late airdash j.b, or land 2b, or late j.2c.

-2d 6d 2b 3c forward jump (block) - same as above, except it'll drag the opponent out of the corner allowing for a cross up or any other dirty tricks you can think of. Don't do this if they have a burst, a good chance they'll use it, which knocks you down in the corner.

-j.5[d] (2a 6a 2b 3c)/(2a 6b) gives you one mixup, hitconfirms on hit, and allows you to keep the string going on block.

-j.5d 2b - catch rolls, and still get a single laser, so similar options to the midscreen one afterwards.

-j.2d j.6d walk late DP - Confirms on hit, and on block you keep the advantage due to the steins. Feels kind of gimmicky but works rather well.

There's an old setup from CS that I haven't tried in matches yet but seems really solid, as I see some Jp players go for it, requires a more specific combo ender though (which is why I didn't know you could do it in this game yet), ex :

-2b 5c SoD 5c 2c j.2c 2b 5c 2c sj.2c j.5d 2b 6a :2c j.c j.2c j.5[d] (2b) - the 2b at the end will catch rolls, and will whiff if they neutral tech. It'll also place you out of range of some reversals, like inferno divider, so they can't even RC. You lose your meaty though, but get a charged laser which gives you similar options to the previous setups.

Most of these corner setups I listed end with you having the advantage, you can usually go for one more ground mixup, so like high/low/throw/throw bait, and then eventually go into 236d/214d, keep the advantage, maybe get another mixup. Do your best to keep them in the corner, take minimal risks, stay at the range where if they airdash they still land in front of you.

Edited by pochp

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Eventhough i did it accidently a few times because i messed up my inputs, but i have seen more Mu players like Keba use something similiar but deliberately

In the corner after a SoD (usually with a bad starter) , instead of finishing the combo they sometimes try a reset by doing 5c 5d (and maybe slightly charged) SoD because people will tech into SoD in the air and you will get a high damaging combo if they didn't barrier guard

I did it a few times on ....j.2c 2b 5d SoD and ..... 2b 6a 6b 5d (slightly delayed) SoD(because i messed up on omoikane), of course it won't work every time but it might catch your opponent off guard once if they don't know about it

Edited by bakahyl

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so 3C>5D>j.2C loops work on non-fatal too. Man i'm gonna work on getting combos based off of this loop.

So this loop actually lets you get more damage than the standard 2B>5C>2C>sj.2C>j.XD combos.

just set up a well timed stein, and you can go (3C>[5D]+]Previous 5D[>j.2C)xN>2B>5B>]5D[+j.2C>3C>Ender

Edited by someonewhodied

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