[CP] µ12: Gameplay Discussion

[susano]

I want in on the group. just send a message before you all start a session since i dont leave my skype running on my cpu

Me too. I am determined to step my game up in CP.

[xntrikcat]

Please send me a msg too - skype name is also xntrikcat

[Lord Pwnge18]

The prerequisite for entering that skype room is being prepared to not actually talk about Mu half of the time

[pochp]

I want in on the group. just send a message before you all start a session since i dont leave my skype running on my cpu

Me too. I am determined to step my game up in CP.

are you two already in it? if not what are your skype names?

[Tecta1Eastside]

i'm already in the group. my name is the same as my XBL GT. i just said hello

[bakahyl]

Either hakumen was too slow with his 3c or mu's 6b is not that bad minus on block

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4JjRhkNwjk&t=46s

[mAc Chaos]

Haku 3C is 9 frames startup.

I do think he was a little slow though.

[C0R]

6b may have also retained its unique set blockstun, giving the impression that the Hakumen player was slow to his punish.

[Tecta1Eastside]

twitch.tv/bibiquadium

watch xntricat netplay

[IxisNaugus]

Spike chaser and habaya seem to go through each other , but in extend habaya stopped it. Habaya probably went through because of the sheer amount of hits it has.

Edit: a possible different explanation is that each spike is a seperate hit in CP instead of that spike chaser was one hit in extend

After seeing this - and one other incident a while back where I witnessed Luna mode Nu's 5D apparently beating Arrows of Heaven (though I recall the situation was rather unclear, as the move was still in startup) and counter-hitting Mu - I'm more inclined to believe it was in fact Arrows that got a priority nerf, as opposed to Spike Chaser getting a priority buff

[Tecta1Eastside]

maybe. habaya does beat out alot of projectiles minus projectile supers

[susano]

are you two already in it? if not what are your skype names?

Crap, need to reinstall skype. Will let you know name when I do.

Okay, skype is susano_01

Edited January 20, 2013 by susano

[bakahyl]

After seeing this - and one other incident a while back where I witnessed Luna mode Nu's 5D apparently beating Arrows of Heaven (though I recall the situation was rather unclear, as the move was still in startup) and counter-hitting Mu - I'm more inclined to believe it was in fact Arrows that got a priority nerf, as opposed to Spike Chaser getting a priority buff

Habaya was already a lvl 1 projectile, lowering it's level/priority even more would mean projectile wise that it would be as horrible as Platinum's Dream sally O_o

Something that i doubt seeing that habaya can cancel Bullet's KoF style ground fireball when she is not "charged" (edit: her fireball seems to increase in projectile level, speed and distance the more she is "heated up")

Edited January 20, 2013 by bakahyl

[bakahyl]

It's interesting to see that Dio (IIRC the carl player in extend) uses much more arial habakiri to zone than most other Mu players

[IxisNaugus]

Habaya was already a lvl 1 projectile, lowering it's level/priority even more would mean projectile wise that it would be as horrible as Platinum's Dream sally O_o

Something that i doubt seeing that habaya can cancel Bullet's KoF style ground fireball when she is not "charged" (edit: her fireball seems to increase in projectile level, speed and distance the more she is "heated up")

Oh ok, I wasn't aware of that. Hmm, I'm not sure then, perhaps projectiles with multiple hits behave differently now against other projectiles or something? Spike Chaser apparently still dies when it interacts with Bang's nails, Hazama's chain etc. so I think we can at least rule out A priority buff on Spike. What other changes to Arrows of Heaven are we aware of, besides increased startup?

[C0R]

Which version of Spike Chaser is everyone trying to compare? Luna or Dia?

[bakahyl]

I was talking about her non mode change version (whatever it's called)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r1fiTslpLs&feature=youtu.be&t=12m28s

Edited January 22, 2013 by bakahyl

[C0R]

I was talking about her non mode change (whatever it's called)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r1fiTslpLs&feature=youtu.be&t=12m28s

µ is never shown blocking Spike Chaser in that video, some projectiles can continue its animation after it has lost its hitbox via interaction with another projectile. A good example of such would be Totsuka or Litchi staff call.

On the topic of Habaya, it's always been level 1. However Habaya re-activates itself up to 5 times per summon, allowing it to chew through multiple instances of projectile level, which is the function that allows trump projectiles of the same level.

[bakahyl]

µ is never shown blocking Spike Chaser in that video, some projectiles can continue its animation after it has lost its hitbox via interaction with another projectile. A good example of such would be Totsuka or Litchi staff call.

On the topic of Habaya, it's always been level 1. However Habaya re-activates itself up to 5 times per summon, allowing it to chew through multiple instances of projectile level, which is the function that allows trump projectiles of the same level.

But according to IxisNaugus , her spike chaser is nullified by Bang's nails or Hazama's chains and i saw it also getting nulled normally and even overpowered (when she was heated up) by Bullet's fireball

Edited January 22, 2013 by bakahyl

[C0R]

But according to IxisNaugus , her spike chaser is nullified by Bang's nails or Hazama's chains and i saw it also getting nulled normally and even overpowered (when she was heated up) by Bullet's fireball

Spike chaser lost to Habaya in the video, just like it does to any other multi-instance projectile. The projectiles traded, Chaser became null, and Habaya refreshed itself.

It simply looks like it keeps going because projectile animations don't just evaporate. Else things like Dead Spike would just have an eye-jarring cut over the course of one frame once they become nullified.

Habaya is still active in the example after trading with Chaser, and would hit Nu if she was to collide with it, the same is not true if Mu had happened to walk into the remnant of Chaser's animation.

Oh ok, I wasn't aware of that. Hmm, I'm not sure then, perhaps projectiles with multiple hits behave differently now against other projectiles or something? Spike Chaser apparently still dies when it interacts with Bang's nails, Hazama's chain etc. so I think we can at least rule out A priority buff on Spike. What other changes to Arrows of Heaven are we aware of, besides increased startup?

As I stated above, Spike Chaser was in fact nullified by Habaya. In the parameters of DiaNu/Mu, the matchup will have all of the same projectile calculations.

Edited January 22, 2013 by C0R

[IxisNaugus]

As I stated above, Spike Chaser was in fact nullified by Habaya. In the parameters of DiaNu/Mu, the matchup will have all of the same projectile calculations.

On the topic of the prolonged animation answer, I went looking for some other examples of Dia Nu's Spike Chaser interacting with other projectiles again, to see if there was any difference in the way it clashes with other projectiles and Arrows of Heaven. What you say is right, every other example I've found gives pretty much the same result.

I believe I've also found whats confused myself and probably bakahyl all along about the situation. I fired up CSE to see if things were different in CP, and they weren't. So why were we confused to begin with?

Well, if you clash Spike Chaser with another projectile, and hit the front-most spike before its successor rises, that particular spike finishes its animation and is naturally the last one to do so. However, if you hit one of the spikes behind the leading spike, which is exactly what happens in the video (pause at 0:12:29 and you'll see it clearly), the front spike will still rise and finish off its animation, which gives the illusion that Spike Chaser is still active - even though its not - because another spike beyond the one that was clashed, has appeared.

@ bakahyl: Does this make sense? You mentioned Bullets projectile voiding (or beating) Spike Chaser, but take a good look at it. Bullets projectile travels along the floor and will always hit the leading spike as a result. This means you'll always see the first scenario I mentioned above when those two moves interact, as opposed to Arrows, and other projectiles, which have a chance of creating the second scenario, because of their higher presence.

I think I can attribute this visual confusion to my own personal experiences. I have a friend I play with who mains Lambda, and we are well versed in the matchup. When he uses Spike Chaser, I typically respond with 2369A Arrows, which means I'm using the aerial variant, and the projectile is on a downward arc as a result. Because of this, my Arrows are guaranteed to hit the front-most spike as early as possible, because they rise from the ground, and there are no succeeding spikes, creating the first scenario I mentioned above. I rarely ever see the second scenario when playing, so I guess I had just one, seemingly absolute image in my mind of what happens when the two moves collide, and seeing something different, from a new game, no less, confused me. bakahyl was tricked in a similar manner.

TL;DR: I was seeing things, and bakahyl was as well, lol. It is indeed as you say, C0R.

[mAc Chaos]

In CT, Hakumen could nullify Nu's swords by cutting them. They would not create a void, but would net him a star and the projectile would be harmless, even though you would still see it crossing the screen. So it's pretty much the same thing here.

[Tecta1Eastside]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXl0hGIzFf0

There's some MOO in here. I dont know if its any good cuz i havent sat down and watched the matches.

[C0R]

I need to stream something. What do you guys want to see?

[Nemesis]

mix-ups and late chain application

Origins combos (preference is p1 Origins usage)