[CP] µ12: Gameplay Discussion

[Zeromus_X]

Right after the the first 5[D] hits is about the timing where you should airdash cancel the j5[D] and hit jC. After that, just make sure to land and dash after the jC to 6A and 2C immediately, so the opponent is high enough for the rest of the combo to work.

[susano]

Right after the the first 5[D] hits is about the timing where you should airdash cancel the j5[D] and hit jC. After that, just make sure to land and dash after the jC to 6A and 2C immediately, so the opponent is high enough for the rest of the combo to work.

 

Guess I'll try again. I pray the netplay gods don't betray me now when I do it online.

[Monarch]

So playing around with 1.1 Mu, I can tell Ikutachi has shorter range. In 1.0 I'd use if at match start and miss my opponent. But now I do it and it hits them exactly.

[pochp]

Input priority change is annoying. When I do dash 2d 236d, I get super a lot. Tested it out in training mode, used to do 663D1236D which triggers the new shortcut. Instead, doing 661D236D is ok.

[Zeromus_X]

It's hard to visually tell, but Ikutachi does indeed seem to flip behind the opponent a bit faster. It doesn't seem to affect any combos in any appreciable way though. They can't be expecting us to start using it as some super mixup tool, right?

 

Also another  purely cosmetic is that a lot of Mu's moves make a cutting SFX now. It's really noticeable on j2C where there was the loud SLAP effect before. Definitely a lot more fitting.

[bakahyl]

Mu's j.2c still seems very good, despite the nerf,because it's amazing hitbox is unchanged. It's new hurtbox does not seem that bad

 

Her backdash does not feel that much different (edit: not sure if it was a mistake in the info or a hidden Nu change, but Mu's and Nu's backdashes have the exact same backdash distance)

 

The change in ikutachi is not that bad and it seems like a buff. You can easier connect 6c> ikutachi from max range and you seem to have more time inputting 6c>ikutachi

 

The lowered recovery on the fully charged SoD seems very noticable, although people weren't using it much anyway

 

edit: Mu's counter assault has become much better. At close range her CA seems to work against low profile moves, but it doesnt work at longer ranges. I think it's most effective range (against low profile moves) is worse than CSE's counter assault

[susano]

Mu's j.2c still seems very good, despite the nerf,because it's amazing hitbox is unchanged. It's new hurtbox does not seem that bad

 

Her backdash does not feel that much different (edit: not sure if it was a mistake in the info or a hidden Nu change, but Mu's and Nu's backdashes have the exact same backdash distance)

 

The change in ikutachi is not that bad and it seems like a buff. You can easier connect 6c> ikutachi from max range and you seem to have more time inputting 6c>ikutachi

 

The lowered recovery on the fully charged SoD seems very noticable, although people weren't using it much anyway

 

edit: Mu's counter assault has become much better. At close range her CA seems to work against low profile moves, but it doesnt work at longer ranges. I think it's most effective range (against low profile moves) is worse than CSE's counter assault

 

I guess I have to get used to the changes then. I was thinking nerfed j2c was a bad thing.

Ikutachi combos do feel much easier, I agree with that.

[Zeromus_X]

Yeah j2C still seems like a really good poke. I guess the change was just to make it easier to preemptively anti-air Mu players going crazy with it?

 

After some training mode, I appreciate the Ikutachi change more. Getting a full tachi combo off max range 5C CH/crouching hit is nice, as I remember dropping them before because Mu couldn't airdash cancel back through the opponent in 1.0.

 

New charged Sword recovery is somewhat noticeable, maybe we can set up some silly frame traps with it and lasers now? At the least it's a bit safer to throw out in neutral I suppose.

[bakahyl]

Mu's astral buff only seems noticable when trying to combo from a higher 6c hit (like a 2b>5c>6c on a grounded opponent)

[pochp]

Oh that's good to hear, I'll try it out more. There are a lot of times when double super ender wouldn't do enough damage and astral wouldn't connect.

 

DP untechable nerf is kind of sad. On normal hit you can't set up anything before they tech and on CH I don't think you can even meaty. I'll have to test out the oki setups involving DP to see if they're still kind of viable or not yet, might have some reset potential though. You can really feel the guard point nerf on the DP too, lol.

[C0R]

Charged route is exactly the same, theory corner combos don't work. Uwuuu

[Zeromus_X]

Input priority change is annoying. When I do dash 2d 236d, I get super a lot. Tested it out in training mode, used to do 663D1236D which triggers the new shortcut. Instead, doing 661D236D is ok.

 

This kept happening to me earlier today. Gonna have to get 661D into muscle memory to avoid getting accidental super.

 

Also I safejumped Mu's DP in the mirror match earlier. Not gonna lie; it felt pretty good.

[Runis]

Ikutachi was sped up enough that you can do a grounded 6C OD ikutachi and still catch them if they're not too far away when you 6C. very tight timing though.
Means you can do shenanigans to stop people bursting Ikutachi to force you in the corner if You know they're going to try to do that and maybe clutch out a round.

[bakahyl]

Isn't it more reliable to use pretty much anything else than ikutachi on a midscreen 6c hitconfirm wiith OD even before the patch? like 6a or 2b>2c>j.2c etc.

imo much easier to confirm and if they bursted immediately after 6c before you activated OD, you can still catch them with 2b or 6a

 

edit: assuming that in both instances that there are no set steins on the field, because they tend to ruin your combo's pretty easily

[bakahyl]

While ikutachi is overall buffed, there is one nerf: it's more punishable on block because you are landing closer to your opponent XD

 

I am also noticing less CH's  and more whiffs with Mu's dp after the patch, so the change is very noticable

[Runis]

Anyone else notice that raw ikutachi RC abdc 2C doesn't cross up if you do it as fast as possible?

[destruction_adv]

so I jsut started playing this game recently, and was on the wiki to try and get up to speed. I noticed that there was a change to the untechable time on Mu's DP and was wondering if the stuff rom the first part of this video still work or if the j.2C stuff even still works.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osJTW0O4T6c

[Runis]

the untech change on her dp did not touch the wall bounce afaik

[Zeromus_X]

Yeah, those setups still work fine in 1.1.

[destruction_adv]

the untech change on her dp did not touch the wall bounce afaik

 

Yeah, those setups still work fine in 1.1.

Alright, thanks, I guess I'll get to work learning that stuff too.

[Runis]

Aerial CT Guard break ->
Dash [2d] dash 2b 6a 6b(1) [5d] ]2d[ j.b j.c j.2c j.[5d] ]5d[ 66c SOD(2) j.]5d[ 66c SOD(2) does 3.6k  -25 +19
Instead of the second SOD you can OD Dash Omo for 4.8k

There's prob something better than this, but Aerial guard break gives you so much time to set up a charged stein and then follow up.

[pochp]

Recently I've felt like my round openers could be a bit better, so I figured why not discuss that.

 

I feel like the basic Mu stuff would be something between 5c, backdash, or air backdash. So, most opponents would expect one of these and do something that counters them. Lots of other characters have button that could specifically beat our 5c at the beginning (some would whiff if we don't extend our hurtbox with 5c), not having the most recovery, this is kinda safe on their part. Slightly riskier would be to simply dash forward and catch up with our backdash, start some pressure. Safer would be to either do nothing, jump back, or backdash themselves, minimizing the initial risk and trying to find a safer way in eventually. Of course, there are other options, but assuming it's the first time I face someone, I doubt they'd try something else. Also, some characters have some special stuff, obviously.

 

To counter these, here are some of the options I like to use :

-walk back, then dash 2b : this has to be done fast enough so you can whiff punish a ragna starting a round with 5b let's say. It also does good against other options, as if they're dashing forward they don't usually expect you to be that close, and if they back off, 2b recovers fast enough that you aren't at much of a risk. If for some reason they try a slightly slower but longer range poke, you'll also block it, which is nice. Off the top of my head, it's also good against litchi 5b, litchi itsuu, tsubaki 5b, tsubaki 22b, probably many others.

-jump forward (optional barrier or j.a) : if they whiff a move, you press a button and punish, if they back off, you can start playing neutral but with more space behind you, if they don't do anything, depending on your assertion of them, either airdash back to avoid the anti air, or try to press a button. I like it vs valk 5b, amane 3c. Barrier if they might start the round with a normal that can hit where you are, or j.a if they don't and think they might jump forward, iad forward.

-super jump back : then if they ground dash forward, just airdash forward over them. If they stay there, you're at a good distance to start neutral.

 

And other stuff :

-if I'm sure they'll airdash back : start the round with iad j.c and start pressure.

-if I'm sure they'll jump forward j.a at the start : slightly delay a jump forward into j.a/j.b to punish their whiff.

-against relius I like super jump back j.d, hard for him to catch, if you see 214b, airdash forward to avoid it.

-against bang I like to start with 2b, if they dash forward they get hit, it's kind of hard for them to specifically beat it at that range, recovers fast on whiff, and if they somehow beat it, I'm crouching so they don't get too much, I think.

-against tager I like to IAD back j.d then backdash. places me at the right spot to start zoning them, not much they can do about it, I think?

-if they try to get fancy and forget about 5c, I'll throw it out every now and then.

-sometimes I just feel like doing j.2c, it just feels right and might work. kinda risky but good reward.

 

Of course, sometimes I go for the other options I listed, like ground dash forward, backdash, iad back, but rather rarely, and mostly when running a long set, just to throw out something "new" and unexpected.

 

 

What do you guys do? I'm very interested in character specific answers too.

[susano]

Recently I've felt like my round openers could be a bit better, so I figured why not discuss that.

 

I feel like the basic Mu stuff would be something between 5c, backdash, or air backdash. So, most opponents would expect one of these and do something that counters them. Lots of other characters have button that could specifically beat our 5c at the beginning (some would whiff if we don't extend our hurtbox with 5c), not having the most recovery, this is kinda safe on their part. Slightly riskier would be to simply dash forward and catch up with our backdash, start some pressure. Safer would be to either do nothing, jump back, or backdash themselves, minimizing the initial risk and trying to find a safer way in eventually. Of course, there are other options, but assuming it's the first time I face someone, I doubt they'd try something else. Also, some characters have some special stuff, obviously.

 

To counter these, here are some of the options I like to use :

-walk back, then dash 2b : this has to be done fast enough so you can whiff punish a ragna starting a round with 5b let's say. It also does good against other options, as if they're dashing forward they don't usually expect you to be that close, and if they back off, 2b recovers fast enough that you aren't at much of a risk. If for some reason they try a slightly slower but longer range poke, you'll also block it, which is nice. Off the top of my head, it's also good against litchi 5b, litchi itsuu, tsubaki 5b, tsubaki 22b, probably many others.

-jump forward (optional barrier or j.a) : if they whiff a move, you press a button and punish, if they back off, you can start playing neutral but with more space behind you, if they don't do anything, depending on your assertion of them, either airdash back to avoid the anti air, or try to press a button. I like it vs valk 5b, amane 3c. Barrier if they might start the round with a normal that can hit where you are, or j.a if they don't and think they might jump forward, iad forward.

-super jump back : then if they ground dash forward, just airdash forward over them. If they stay there, you're at a good distance to start neutral.

 

And other stuff :

-if I'm sure they'll airdash back : start the round with iad j.c and start pressure.

-if I'm sure they'll jump forward j.a at the start : slightly delay a jump forward into j.a/j.b to punish their whiff.

-against relius I like super jump back j.d, hard for him to catch, if you see 214b, airdash forward to avoid it.

-against bang I like to start with 2b, if they dash forward they get hit, it's kind of hard for them to specifically beat it at that range, recovers fast on whiff, and if they somehow beat it, I'm crouching so they don't get too much, I think.

-against tager I like to IAD back j.d then backdash. places me at the right spot to start zoning them, not much they can do about it, I think?

-if they try to get fancy and forget about 5c, I'll throw it out every now and then.

-sometimes I just feel like doing j.2c, it just feels right and might work. kinda risky but good reward.

 

Of course, sometimes I go for the other options I listed, like ground dash forward, backdash, iad back, but rather rarely, and mostly when running a long set, just to throw out something "new" and unexpected.

 

 

What do you guys do? I'm very interested in character specific answers too.

 

I like your options. It should be something I should start using too.

[Zeromus_X]

Recently I've felt like my round openers could be a bit better, so I figured why not discuss that.

 

....

 

 

 

j2C is surprisingly good at the start of the round, like against Kokonoe 3C or Tagers that like to go crazy in the air, etc. Often even when the opponent doesn't do what you guess, they tend to just...get hit by it which gives you more time to setup or even get a combo if you can confirm crouching/CH. Of course, if you get predictable with this the opponent can yomi IAD airthrow, jA, or run up anti-air, so you can't use it too often.

 

I like to throw out SoD at the start of the round too, if I feel the opponent is really aggressive. Moves Mu backwards and beats a lot of things that would beat 5C, has a huge hitbox and rather obscene reward on CH. Even on normal hit they get blown away (if they say, jumped at the start of the round without barrier), giving you space to start your game. Have to be prepared to backdash if they block since you're at a disadvantage though, but it's hard to really be punished at that distance.

 

A lot of your options are ones I tend to mix up between as well, but I tend to not consciously think about them. Time to start really thinking about why I do things more lol.

[bakahyl]

j.2c at the start of the round can be usefull against certain characters starting options. If you use it properly it can beat many "common" starters like Ragna's 5b, 5c Jin's 5c,  Kokonoe's 3c etc.  and it sometimes even beats forward airdashes (usually combined with a throw) but it can be very easily stopped if you use it too predictably (like jin can simply use his fubuki).