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Akira-Shiro

Marionette Mastery Guide

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So due to the complexity of our character a lot of people have been complaining about a guide so sure why not make one.

Please select Your Style:

Due to Carl Clovers ability to utilize two characters simultaneously it is only natural that we have a very difficult time using our hands efficiently. While it is true that is is difficult to use Carl on default button configuration with a standard PS3 controller it is not impossible. I use a standard PS3 controller and am able to play Carl just fine. So do not think if you do not have access or the funds($$$) to purchase a Arcade stick that you cannot play Carl Clover. Oppositely there are people who play Carl that do use a specific button layout by configuring the drive button to s specific button usually R1 or R2.

Hand control on a PS3 controller with default button settings:

For me what I do while using Carl is place the joint of my thumb (The part that bends) to use D(X button) and the tip of my thumb (The head of the appendage) transitioning from the B(Triangle button) and the A(Square button). The tricky part of this is using C(Circle button) which in order to press i slightly tilt my thumb to the right in order to press. Therefore some things which require u to hold the drive button for elongated periods of time while preforming combos will become a problem a prime example would be Carls JB/3D UB-loop. Due to my button configuration it is possible to preform Carls UB loop however it is painful, the amount of force required in order to keep the D button down with the joint of my thumb while wiggling it back and forth to tap the C-button is a lot, and it will become painful long before the loop needs to be initiated.

Hand Control on a PS3 controller with custom setting:

While avoiding a Arcade stick people have began to set a back button ask there Drive/D button in an effort to remove the complexity of holding a button down while simultaneously pressing other buttons. Usually R1 or R2 are used to set the D button, however it is best to try to select your own comfort button. Perform this combo in CON position 5b>2b>5C>6D>jc>5b>2b>5c>6D If you can do this combo 3times consecutively while holding the D button through the duration of each combo, and still be comfortable then you are ready to learn Carl.

Arcade Stick:

Arguable the most efficient way to play Carl in terms of control. The Arcade Stick has all the flexibility you need in order to play this S-tier difficulty character. When it comes to setting your Aracade stick it is best to understand the way our appendages work. The fingers with the most flexibility and strength are our index finger and thumb, so when it comes to rapidly pressing buttons while still keeping the rest of our hand preoccupied would be the thumb and index. The pinky has the lease amount of strength and control which is why some arcade layouts the fourth button is excluded. have. When watching videos of Japanese player you will see 3groups of arcade buttons all going at a sort of rainbow arc. That is what the buttons typically look like http://dominionmethodgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/20120916-201213.jpg , the number of buttons and the positioning of the buttons are all subjective to change depending on the brand/company/creator. The reason the buttons generally go at an arc for comfort to our hands, the thumb button is on the bottom left the index button is on the top left the middle finger in on the top middle and the ring fingers button is on the far right. It is best to fool around with the configuration of these settings to find which one if more comfortable for you.

Carl Mastery

So often people believe that all it takes to learn Carl is to hide behind Ada and spam UB's well unfortunately thats not the case,, trust me we wish it was. However Carl alone is a slightly difficult character to use. Due to his awful pokes(Crappy hitboxes) and long recovery it makes his poking game slightly less then usefull compared to the rest of the cast at neutral.. Carl has the lowest Hp in the Game and unlike Tao he has no reversal and the worst counter Assault in the game. Making blocking one of Carls only options on the defensive end and by far the worst character when it comes to escaping blockstrings. Even characters like Tager/Hakumen who at least can scare the opponent into doing pressure that avoids the Counters and Grabs, however this adds to that character being able to escape pressure and even punish character for trying to bait there reversal option. Carl has nothing of the sort so a warning to those who are reading to learn how to play Carl. YOU WILL Be BLOCKING AND IB'ING A LOT. If this is something you know u will not be able to due then I advice u to quit now and forever hold your peace.

Offensive:

Carl by far is one of the most dangerous characters is the game, his ability to end combo's and upon oki preform a reset into another combo is a very powerful tool. Carl can potentially kill every character in the cast (except Haku-men) at the very start of the fight by preforming his UB reset. Most people know Carl as that character that resets you to death, this is true. HOWEVER!!!!!! it only applies to his single UB setup which requires the enemy to be sandwiched in between Carl and Nirvana to preform. Carl has a few tools at his disposal that make his crappy solo neutral slightly less crappy.

Maneuvers:

Dash Cancel: Which is done by utilizing the new dash cancel ability to allow the momentum of moving forward to carry you. Doing 66 into a jump, attack, and grab are all possible including Carls allegreto which is his primary tool at saving Ada or pushing enemies away from hitting her.

Air Dash Guard: So long as Ada is turned off Carl can IAD into a block by pressing the Dbutton during a dash and quickly placing your barrier up. Most effective when IAD after a volante has been used so that Ada is turned off and those people who try to AA you because they know that volante will disappear when Carl is hit, will be very effective against.

Allecan: Probably the most commonly used tool in Carl arsenal, by doing Allegreto which is a move that steals the momentum of whatever Carl is doing and applies it to its own startup. So it allows Carl to cancel the jump animation after his j2c which has a downward moving momentum into allegreto which moves you down a bit more since its stealing the momentum of j2c. Which in turn allows Carl to land and continue pressing buttons on the enemies face.

Using all of these tools to the best of their ability will help any Carl player at the worst of times.

Defensive:

Lol you wish,, better get blocking.

Carl as said before generally has no options once the opponent has him blocking, counter assaulting is a option however it is not a safe option not only does it have awful numbers if blocked just like majority of the cast. The largest issue with Carls counter Assault is that is will whiff more often then not. The hitbox on Carls CA is his 6c(OH) which has a disgusting amount of reach. So to be safe if one plans on CA'ing DO NOT BARRIER BLOCK. I know this may become difficult seeing as this is probably going to be your primary source of reveral your primers will get low,, an eventually you will find yourself with one primer blocking waiting for a space to CA but scared because u want to use your barrier but if you do you can counter Assault. In this situation its best to think of that character you are fighting and be wary of what moves take primers and what move pushes back far enough to avoid your CA by mistake. However avoiding blocking by Vivace'ing upon an enemies approach is a very smart decision since it will most likely end in them being sandwiched. However it is also important to know that vivace only has upper body inv. So not only lows, but low striking mids like most 2a's will hit you out of Vivace. The move does not need to be low to hit low enough to hit you out... trust me i wish that were the case.

Ada Mastery

Ada Clover is by far the prettiest metallic gorilla i have ever laid my eyes on. She is the reason Carl is consider a character. Without her you are nothing, with her you are everything that haunts the dreams of every person who plays BB. It is for this reason they will try to hurt her,, it is your job to not let this happen. An in returning the favor of keeping her alive, she WILL destroy your opponent with her gigantic gorilla arm.

Offensive:

Ada is Carls greatest tool at Neutral she has all the reach you will ever need at her fingertips... literally. Brio is a move where Ada shoots the tips of her fingers diagonally into the sky, a sky that she owns and for some reason the enemy will be under the illusion they can use it. Shatter this illusion immediately, Brio till your hearts content and if they dare try to punish her you know what to due (66>allegreto for those who dont know) this game plan is one that acts as a moving wall by keeping the skies and the ground under your control. However there are several characters who can stop this (Litchi, Rachel, Mu-12 just to name a few) so its good to know who can and cannot stop this technique, and who can get around it. Ada possesses one low attack and one overhead, it is good to learn when to abuse peoples reflexes against them. Most of the time people look at Carl just a little to hard and they neglect our big bitch of a sister completely. Using this Carl players can jumo while having Ada preform her low attack to force them to remember "Oh shit,, she is right there aint she" 6D is also a great tool at hitting enemies who this they can just avoid her, or enemies that try to spam their bukake of lasers..... not gonna point no elbows >>>>:MU:<<<< DIS BITCH RIGHT HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Defensively:

Although Carl lax a lot of tools when it comes to his offensive game best believe that once he has the health lead they have just as hard a time as any to get in on you. Brio is not only an offensive tool but a defensive one as well. Providing excellent cover from aerial assaults along with 8D which works on those overly mobile characters (Haz/Tao) who are just annoying. Rhapsody of Memories is also a very good tool if you can catch them blocking at any point. Keep in mind that Fermata is completely air unblockable,, no amount of barrier will save them. While moving ada forward placing her in danger,, 4D is a very good defensive tool for her to use to get a good hit in and make them think twice about what hitting her.

Marionette Mastery

SYNCHRONIZATION OVERLOAD:

Finally we have utilization of both Carl and Ada simultaneouslyWhen referring to Carls combos it is important to remember that Carls combos are not as liner as the rest of the cast. Due to a lot of Ada's moves possessing the exact same P2 minus a select few, combo names generally take on the name of Adas attack.

Take this combo

CON: 5b>5c>cantabile>5c>2D>5c>jb>j2c>jb>jb>jc>8D this combo is would tipically be described as our BnB its called a 2D combo. Now look at this combo

CON:5b>5c>cantabile>5c>jc>4D>5c>jb>j2c>jb>jb>jc>8D this combo is the exact same however it has our 4D in replace of our 2D this would be a 4D combo. One may think ok so what is the purpose of doing any other combo since the 2D one is the easiest. Yes it is true it is the easiest however to stretch the proration from a good starter it is good to use the harder chains first while the proration is loose and lax then to attempt it while proration is strenuous.

Here is a little vid of JG showing a tutorial of our combo this is his video although it does pretty much cover a lot.. saving me a very large wall of text. SO thankyou JG in advance.

Thus completes the learning of Carl, all other UB setups will be in his character combo/setup thread.

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What???

Several people were complaining about how to use carl.. some were also complaining about proper use of the D placement. There are a lot of new Carls this time around and im seeing a lot of questions so this was a attempt at trying to cover everything when it comes to actually learning the character.

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I think the guide thread is a good idea, this'll help anyone who comes in asking for some play tips. I noticed that we all play pretty differently so maybe this will help players forge their own path. Plus, we can update this thread with CP info when it becomes available (because I'm sure that I'll probably want some tips :D)

"Ada Clover is by far the prettiest metallic gorilla i have ever laid my eyes on." LOOL, well said :P

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Hand control on a PS3 controller with default button settings:

For me what I do while using Carl is place the joint of my thumb (The part that bends) to use D(X button) and the tip of my thumb (The head of the appendage) transitioning from the B(Triangle button) and the A(Square button). The tricky part of this is using C(Circle button) which in order to press i slightly tilt my thumb to the right in order to press. Therefore some things which require u to hold the drive button for elongated periods of time while preforming combos will become a problem a prime example would be Carls JB/3D UB-loop. Due to my button configuration it is possible to preform Carls UB loop however it is painful, the amount of force required in order to keep the D button down with the joint of my thumb while wiggling it back and forth to tap the C-button is a lot, and it will become painful long before the loop needs to be initiated.

Well if you don't feel like swapping controls from default to custom between characters when you use a controller, you can use Barrier (RT/R2 (Depending on console)) for B. A and C are easily accessible from D.

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Honestly with default controls, I find the easiest method is claw hand (thumb and index finger on face buttons). It takes some getting used to, but you can perform all the combo pretty naturally like this and you can dedicate your thumb to D for most of his advance plays so it doesn't get to herp derp for your fingers. Nice guide over all though. Will need to update this for CP eventually (Tenerezza is god).

Also, do none of you guys "dance around the wall"?

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Easiest control method is to get a stick :eng101:

Also, what do you mean by "dance around the wall"?

And yes, Tenerezza is da god.

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Ehhh, that's all in preference really. I didn't grow up with an arcade around, so I'm mostly fluent on pad, and I've taken down just about every stick junkie in Northern Nevada. Only thing I really like about stick is it's pretty universal.

Dancing around the wall is just a defensive footsies with the opponent only Carl can do. Because Ada is literally a wall when active, it forces the opponent to resort to the air to get to you eventually, so long as you aren't 2 inches away from her to get hit anyway from a poke. If you manage her bar well enough, you don't have to worry about Nee-san dying. If they do a reckless air approach, you can 6A for an easy combo> sandwich, and if they have less then common approach methods (Mu 2/6 D laser jumps, Tao drive, Haz chains), you can react with a B vivace to go around Nirvana and reset the situation. I've seen it done a couple times on youtube, but mostly just for time outs.

Carl's defense sucks and his offense is amazing. You have to have control of the neutral in order to gain the advantage in a match for him.

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in my case, learn to control nirvana with extra care. only perfect practice makes perfect. As stated as Afro demon above. "dancing around the wall", in my terms I call it "respect" nirvana pressure, sometimes you don't need to "actually" activate nirvana, with the slight neutral D, before you start your pressure. my friend call it the nirvana dance, lol.

PS : its nice seeing akira doing sumtin for the community, keep it up.

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PS : its nice seeing akira doing sumtin for the community, keep it up.

Shiro said

"Thanks for the compliment and I really appreciate it, however I has been doing stuff for the Carl Community for a long time now... If You took a look at the Matchup thread, sinder and I started majority of them. And even then the ones Sinder stared he left blank and I filled, I also started several threads that are commonly used and kept them in tip top shape.. More or less. Along with being a advant follower of the changes both for the transition of CS2~EX & EX~CP I also kept the change-list threads updated with information to the best of my ability. And now since Jordal is ignoring Carl (Slightly) I'm going to be picking up the slack if no one minds the quality of my videos(I truly am working on improving it without breaking my pockets to hard). But thanks for the appreciation Nar :)"

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Hi, lurker for some times, new on the boards.

I have some experience with Noel and Tager in general but I'm starting to show some interest for Carl ( couldn't handle Relius).

While this guide has been very useful and explained quiet a lot in overall strategy, I found these combos to be quiet complex at my level with Carl. Is there anyone who could please teach or reference (Mr. Bang?) me to some starting exercises or easier combos to get an overall feeling before being thrown into the lions' den.

Thanks in advance.

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Hi, lurker for some times, new on the boards.

I have some experience with Noel and Tager in general but I'm starting to show some interest for Carl ( couldn't handle Relius).

While this guide has been very useful and explained quiet a lot in overall strategy, I found these combos to be quiet complex at my level with Carl. Is there anyone who could please teach or reference (Mr. Bang?) me to some starting exercises or easier combos to get an overall feeling before being thrown into the lions' den.

Thanks in advance.

You should check out the combo thread for that type of information.

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You should check out the combo thread for that type of information.

Yes, I have seen it. However I reviewed it again when you mentioned.

The reason i posted here was because I still find those combos really hard to perform for someone like me with little-no experience with Carl. I just want to know if there's some small chunks of combos around somewhere that are useful for me to get familiar with the little vigilante.

I understand Carl Clover can be quiet the complex character (besides his sister complex). But must those high end combos must be learned form the get go? All I'm looking for is for smaller chucks of combos that will give me a smoother learning curve. I'm willing to put the time and effort into training to learn his tools. However, being on kindergarden land and moving to college phd dominion in one jump can be quiet vexing for myself since I don't have the talent some of you might have when it comes to learning fighting games.

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Basic training imo, do solo Carl combo with 623C>5C into arial combo. Then try and expand by using 2D after arial combo. So basically, do 5B>6B>623C>5C>j.B>j.2C>j.B>dj.B>j.C. then if you wanna learn how to start using ada, try and input 2D around the dj.B and see if it hits. That's the basics of makin ada work for longer combos. Of course, yoy have to be in position for it, but still.

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Yes, I have seen it. However I reviewed it again when you mentioned.

The reason i posted here was because I still find those combos really hard to perform for someone like me with little-no experience with Carl. I just want to know if there's some small chunks of combos around somewhere that are useful for me to get familiar with the little vigilante.

I understand Carl Clover can be quiet the complex character (besides his sister complex). But must those high end combos must be learned form the get go? All I'm looking for is for smaller chucks of combos that will give me a smoother learning curve. I'm willing to put the time and effort into training to learn his tools. However, being on kindergarden land and moving to college phd dominion in one jump can be quiet vexing for myself since I don't have the talent some of you might have when it comes to learning fighting games.

Have you been to Carls challenge mode? Carls challenge mode takes you step by step from performing solo combos into high execution combos the into high optimum combos. Best advice would be to start working from the ground up. I had assumed you had made an attempt at his challenge mode before posting, my apologies. But seriously, his challenge mode is where its at. And then come and check out the combo thread. Unless you are looking for some 1 on 1 training. If I have the time I would be more than willing to help.

I am a teacher after all :toot:

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So basically, do 5B>6B>623C>5C>j.B>j.2C>j.B>dj.B>j.C.

This ^^

This is your most important "base" combo chunk. Most of your Ada extentions revolve around this in one way or another.

Basically some basic ground combo into 6B > 623C will be your launch, then extend that with 5C then SUPER jump (29j) into the j.B j.2C etc string. In terms of Ada extentions, here's some of the timing I've found.

CON: ~5C>29j.B>j.2C (tiny delay) 2D>j.C. Simple hit into 2D. You usually need to backdash once or twice after this, depending on how high your opponent was when they got hit

CON: ~5C>29j.B>j.2C>j.B>8dj.B>j.C (immediate) 412D (volante). Make sure you do the double jump straight upwards or you'll change sides when the volante hits and lose your CON.

Ada anywhere: ~5B>6B>623C>22D (teleport, done ASAP) 5C>9j>2D>j.B>j.C. If you do the teleport fairly early, Ada will end up between Carl and the opponent, then you need to buffer the jump in the hit stop of 5C, then do 2D pretty quickly. You can then delay the j.B and j.C to make sure 2D hits. You get the feeling for it fairly quick. I'd recommend not super jumping here either.

In the corner, as long as Ada is somewhat close. Doing the jump combo mentioned before (5B>6B>623C>5C>29j.B>j.2C>j.B>dj.B>j.C) can go into 623D pretty easily. The timing is slightly dependent on how far Ada is from the corner but it'll usually work if you pretty much do 623D immediately.

Again in the corner: ~5C>9j.B>j.C>6D. The timing on this is very relaxed. Generally you can do it anywhere between j.B and j.C. The hitbox is fairly tall and forgiving and there's plenty of active frames. You'll usually want to hold back after this to avoid crossing under the wall bounce into the corner or you could do 8.jB instead if you feel more comfortable.

Finally! CON: ~5C>29j.B>j.2C>j.B>8dj.B>8D>j.C. The super easy combo into the clap. The timing on this is also fairly relaxed because the clap projectile is active for a million frames. Pretty much doing 8D while you're still holding up from the double jump should make this work pretty well. This will, in most cases (excluding VERY high proration enders) not be techable until your opponent hits the ground.

To make everything easier, I recommend learning how to HOLD the D button often as opposed to trying to press and release when you want to do an Ada attack. It makes timing and getting the feeling of things so very very much easier.

Some of the above wont apply in CP but if you're sticking with CSE for a while, go for it. If anything it's good training to get used to the character as a whole.

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Thanks again for all the tips. They still sound complicated but there's no other way to learn them but just by practicing.

@Raiza, I have attempted to do challenges modes but they are still complicated themselves. Heck! Even I barely cant get past challenge 13 with my main character (Noel). But I'll keep trying just as usual.

@Pen Ninja, I currently play on a game pad controller. I saw it was recommended to change D to something easier like R1. Is that how you do it or do you think there's a better way to train holding D as the default? I anticipate it would be annoying going back and forth changing the button set up when deciding to change to another character.

Also, is it ok if I add you guys to the playstation network? I don't really have a console of my own but when i get the chance to get a hold of one (sister's) I could play some matches with you guys.

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Adding me would be pointless since I'm vita player, but I think these forums are friendly enough to teach you if you need it. Just practice doing 623C jump combos and you'll get it eventually. And I personally assign it to my vitas right trigger, but I've seen others do it differently.

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My PS3 is on CFW... sorry. v_v

In terms of playing on pad: I've always played with a stick so I use my index finger on D (bottom left button) and my middle and ring for the other buttons (sometimes my pinky finger for C but not often). Whenever I'm forced to play pad though, I tend to leave it as default (X= D, []= A, /_\= B, O= C) and play holding the left hand side normally but then learning the right hand side of the pad on my leg and using my fingers instead of my thumb... pretty much like playing on stick.

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