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skd

[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

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This answered a lot actually. I can never seem to out nuetral her due to the range on her specials but i see now i might just need to space myself better. Now that I understand the plan i might be able to deal with it. I'm going to watch some videos of good players and see how they handle it. Appreciate it. Good to have you on dustloop SKD

Sent from my ZTE-X500 using Tapatalk 2

 

Just don't make the mistake of underestimating her, especially in normal mode.  Any hit can turn into 6 stocks and pretty good corner carry or 4 stocks and oki with a safejump and GA shenanigans on your wake up.  The best way to deal with her (at least until 2.0) is to pin her down early and prevent her from gaining stocks, which is a helluva lot easier said than done in neutral.  In 2.0 all bets are off when it comes to just staying on her ass (thank you, based Aegis Blade invul frames).

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This answered a lot actually. I can never seem to out nuetral her due to the range on her specials but i see now i might just need to space myself better. Now that I understand the plan i might be able to deal with it. I'm going to watch some videos of good players and see how they handle it. Appreciate it. Good to have you on dustloop SKD

Sent from my ZTE-X500 using Tapatalk 2

Why not just fight SKD? You'll get bodied, but you can learn a lot if you're willing to test out stuff midmatch.

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Why not just fight SKD? You'll get bodied, but you can learn a lot if you're willing to test out stuff midmatch.

 

uhhh, fighting izayoi online is...well, he might get an idea, but i don't think i'll be able to provide the actual matchup theory/play in delay. Despite how i play with you sometimes even our connection is...pretty bad lol.

 

our connection is like normally beyond what i want to tolerate when i play, Its not good because you don't quite get a good idea of how she can move to adjust vs normals, her recovery and how she can cover multiple approaches most effectively and i end up just over bullying in neutral/pressure to make up for the smart things i cant do in delay lmao. moving/spacing with her is really fast paced, so even a little bit of delay throws off my spacing something awful.

 

For example, how she can beat upback jin jC is relatively straightforward and low risk on her end, but baiting 2C and hovering a little bit higher out of upback jC range and reacting to the situation is so difficult in delay. Coupled with her airdash speeds, i end up all over the place where I shouldn't be, and while I might be able to deal with it and seal out the matches, it isn't...good practice for either of us. I don't really think you should take too much from those matches!! a basic matchup plan and tool familiarity on her end but as far as real, stable neutral and pressure responses, you can't really use that personal experience (especially when you are actively trying things), the delay affects too much. I'm not doing things you should be dealing with, and responses to certain situations working out have probably given you the wrong impression of what is good to do.

 

Well, you can, but it'll 180 on you when it really counts. But i mean, all of my matchup talk is about developed play offline, though i guess it isn't really..."practical" for many, so i'm a bit at a loss. But i'd rather impart that kind of thinking. but if i'm just playing you and its all sloppy willy nilly...i just want to avoid giving people the wrong idea of how to play, i was hoping you werent really putting much stock in stuff. I feel really dumb trying to play her in delay to begin with.

 

As far as basic exp for familiarity against her, netplay is fine, but I think especially with a character like izayoi, delay takes her for a spin. so any matchup development you won't really get the proper gist of. So as far as laow ping's experience playing vs izayoi online, it might not adhere to what i've said, it might be easy to bully her or disrespect in a lot of ways, but as far as what the matchup will look like in a normal environment...please keep that in mind! If you are seeking relevant advice, my advice does not really relate to delay induced matchup play.

 

@StylishH

 

Aegis is...OK, its more of a supplement to good defense that causes overextensions in pressure. You can outspace it with certain normals, and it's relatively slow at ~15f? You can feint it and retain invlun, but the recovery window is almost twice as long as the invlun window, so it's more of a hard call than anything. Basic defense is going to make aegis much stronger, though it does let her finally command respect out of a lot of bad strings on reaction.

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uhhh, fighting izayoi online is...well, he might get an idea, but i don't think i'll be able to provide the actual matchup theory/play in delay. Despite how i play with you sometimes even our connection is...pretty bad lol.

 

our connection is like normally beyond what i want to tolerate when i play, Its not good because you don't quite get a good idea of how she can move to adjust vs normals, her recovery and how she can cover multiple approaches most effectively and i end up just over bullying in neutral/pressure to make up for the smart things i cant do in delay lmao. moving/spacing with her is really fast paced, so even a little bit of delay throws off my spacing something awful.

 

For example, how she can beat upback jin jC is relatively straightforward and low risk on her end, but baiting 2C and hovering a little bit higher out of upback jC range and reacting to the situation is so difficult in delay. Coupled with her airdash speeds, i end up all over the place where I shouldn't be, and while I might be able to deal with it and seal out the matches, it isn't...good practice for either of us. I don't really think you should take too much from those matches!! a basic matchup plan and tool familiarity on her end but as far as real, stable neutral and pressure responses, you can't really use that personal experience (especially when you are actively trying things), the delay affects too much. I'm not doing things you should be dealing with, and responses to certain situations working out have probably given you the wrong impression of what is good to do.

 

Well, you can, but it'll 180 on you when it really counts. But i mean, all of my matchup talk is about developed play offline, though i guess it isn't really..."practical" for many, so i'm a bit at a loss. But i'd rather impart that kind of thinking. but if i'm just playing you and its all sloppy willy nilly...i just want to avoid giving people the wrong idea of how to play, i was hoping you werent really putting much stock in stuff. I feel really dumb trying to play her in delay to begin with.

 

As far as basic exp for familiarity against her, netplay is fine, but I think especially with a character like izayoi, delay takes her for a spin. so any matchup development you won't really get the proper gist of. So as far as laow ping's experience playing vs izayoi online, it might not adhere to what i've said, it might be easy to bully her or disrespect in a lot of ways, but as far as what the matchup will look like in a normal environment...please keep that in mind! If you are seeking relevant advice, my advice does not really relate to delay induced matchup play.

 

@StylishH

 

Aegis is...OK, its more of a supplement to good defense that causes overextensions in pressure. You can outspace it with certain normals, and it's relatively slow at ~15f? You can feint it and retain invlun, but the recovery window is almost twice as long as the invlun window, so it's more of a hard call than anything. Basic defense is going to make aegis much stronger, though it does let her finally command respect out of a lot of bad strings on reaction.

This was basically what I was referring to

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Do you think we'll have a new wave of players picking up yoi just because we have a dp now? I hate these kind of players lol

 

Honestly?  I rather doubt it.  

 

With the way the easier and more popular characters are shaping up in 2.0, it seems unlikely at this point.  Izayoi is a character with a steep learning curve for beginners and there is still some questions about where she ranks in the cast due to lack of a huge player base and therefore lack of exploration outside of the few who use her.  I'm not saying some won't try, as there will always be those who will, though whether they stay is up in the air.  

 

I'm banking on the general community staying with Ragna, Jin, Azrael, Tager, Nu, Noel, Hazama, and even Kokonoe.  The wave of change will likely turn towards Makoto (and even I'm interested in her), Celica, Bang, Kagura, and possibly Tsubaki.  The mainstays (which are usually the the more technical character bases) will likely be Valk, Rachel, Carl, Amane (damn shame too), Arakune (who might actually lose players at this point), and Izayoi.  Everyone else is up for debate.  At least that's my 2 cents.

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I guess you're right, and we don't have too many japanese players playing with Izayoi either so it sounds like her learning curve/difficulty may still discourage people.

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I guess you're right, and we don't have too many japanese players playing with Izayoi either so it sounds like her learning curve/difficulty may still discourage people.

 

The thing is, it's not just her technical difficulty.  It's just how she's generally perceived.  As long as people keep spouting off misinformed opinions like "Izayoi just isn't good, look at how she's bottom tier", people won't give her much of a chance.  On the other hand, I actually like it that way.  It separates who's going to put forth genuine effort into the character as opposed to jumping on a bandwagon, which is why I loved playing Valk for so long.  It's always better to learn from a great player dedicated to his character (Dora, Goro, Kuresu, Mitsurugi, etc) than someone just hopping onto to what's hot at the moment.  

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i forgot to post this here, but this izayoi cmv happened:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBRcBDQzyys

 

and also posting to say im going going to do a major rehaul of the subforum tonight, and get a lot of the wiki done. probably going to archive this thread and start fresh.

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Did we ever set up a Skype chat? Could use an invite to it to talk 2.0 tech. Guanglaikangyi on Skype, thanks.

I prefer LINE but that's just me.

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Isn't LINE that Chinese app that my dad uses to send texts to my grandmother?

 

Either way Skype would best since everyone seems to use that already.  No need to install a different app for each character chat.

 

Also, day 1 Extend impressions:

 

- Teleport and B Crusade are FAST now.  This isn't a "I heard it was like 2f faster so I've convinced myself that I can see it" deal, the difference is extremely noticeable.  B Crusade looks almost exactly the same speed as C Crusade now, and even the "hard" links like B Crusade > teleport cancel > 5C is ridiculously easy now.

 

- The 5C forward movement is very significant.  It makes her NM confirms MUCH easier to pull off.

 

- Noir Edge and Aegis Blade untech times got a massive buff.  Aegis Blade is basically Jin's Rehhyou now, you can juggle off it easily without any cancels.  It is possible to do stuff like NM 236B 214A 5C j.BAAC j.236C 5C 623C and not only will it all combo, you get knockdown.

 

- Aegis Blade untech makes mode switch combos really easy, even midscreen.  You can do 623C RC 5D etc. from pretty much anywhere.

 

- j.C has a LOT of pushback now.  I used to do dash j.C 5C 2C at midscreen in 1.1 and it would combo cleanly, now 2C doesn't even hit at all.

 

- NM stock build is more consistent now (you're guaranteed at least 4 even off max range 5B thanks to B Crusade comboing) but it's harder to get oki ender midscreen or off a short starter without sacrificing stocks.  On the plus side, NM damage potential is also a lot higher in corner, you can get 3.2k and 6 stocks with oki pretty easily off a corner normal starter.

 

- It's pretty much impossible to drop Strike Fall > Phorizer now unless you manage to REALLY botch it or untech time simply doesn't allow it, thanks to Strike Fall having a mini groundbounce on hit.  It actually looks kinda weird, it feels way more plus than before as a result.

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