Following N-O-sama's footsteps with Venom

[ky0n01]

<<<<MOVELIST>>>>

UPDATED 9/1/2010

•Venom's pros en cons•

Cons:

>bad at escaping pressure

>heavily relies in balls

>average damage

Pros:

>okizeme S

>can pin you down in the corner for long

>anti-air A

>mixup B because the damage you get isn't really as good as i-no but its still worth doing.

>infinite setups!

>can increase your guard bar in a wink

[•Moves•]

2S - 6 frames startup. good for interrupting moves and close-ins.

2K- best move to interrupt tick throws and pressure holes.

5S - has more positive frames than 2s(on block)

5P - nothing special

c.S- fast startup and often used to build guard bar.

5H - staggers 39 max frames. on air CH you can use 6P>6H>CR combo

6P - your main anti-air.

6HS - kind of an anti-air but be careful not to whiff. on CH combo is possible

2HS - 2nd anti-air. has a pretty good startup but has slow recovery so careful not to whiff. on CH combo is possible.

j.HS - main anti-ground.

j.D - has a good knockback effect guardhit and if it CH they won't be able to recover until they get near the ground.

[•Special Moves•]

Ball Seisei- your defense against bastards who wants to rush you down.

Dubious Curve- 24f blockstun. electric ball on hit. spam this a lot if they don't know how to handle this.

Carcass Ride S - for zoning, damage and corner pressure.

Stinger Aim H - Stinger Aim H for ramming balls you summoned(watch N-O's match).

Mad Struggle- fastest overhead, although its possible to block it on reaction its still usefull for setting up pressure. + frames on guard, combo on hit.

Double Head Morbid- combo ender

Carcass Ride H- use to this to prevent them from escaping corners

[•Force Break•]

FB Double-Headmorbid - moar okizeme and moar damage rawr! guaranteed knockdown on hit.

FB Madstruggle - guaranteed combo on hit, and if they blocked it you can still continue pressure as you have lots of frame advantage.

FB Carcass Ride - compared to the normal CR H, your recovery is much faster and it moves slower.

FB Stinger Aim - faster than normal SA. probably good to use if you're feeling high.

<<<<BALL FORMATION>>>>

[•BALL SUMMONING PERIMETER•]

*NEW*

All you need to do is get away from their reach to summon. Never try to do a risky summon or else

you'll have to deal with pressure etc. And since we are bad in pressures we can't take risks. Click here for examplehttp://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...3173/ss_09.jpg

Summon when youre on frame advantage, using pokes like 5s,2s,6HS, dubious curve(on block).

[•What do I do if they wont let me summon balls?•]

*NEW*

If their character is really bad ass, then you have to keep on back dashing and teleporting around

and wait for an opening to summon or to attack.

[•Rule of the thumb when playing Venom•]

Be innovative with your ball setups and more importantly, have fun.

Midscreen Okizeme:

K>ball

---o-----------

---------------

---------------

---------------

---------------

H>ball

------------o--

---------------

---------------

---------------

---------------

S>K

•j.K top ball

--o------------

---------------

---------------

-------------o-

---------------

Corner Okizeme:

Note: If you're wondering what <lightning ball> stands for, it means the ball ended in dubious curve.

S>K

• j.k top ball

-----or-----

• teleport

--o------------

---------------

---------------

-------------o-

---------------

H>K <lightning ball>

• j.k top ball

-----or-----

• 2p low ball

-----o---------

---------------

---------------

-----o---------

---------------

K>P <lightning ball>

• j.S top ball

---------------

---------------

---------o-----

----o----------

---------------

---------------

K>S <lightning ball>

• j.s top ball

-----or-----

• 2p bottom ball, then do N-O's lockdown (see corner lockdown section, #3)

-----or-----

• 2p bottom ball> summon P ball [formation changed into K>P]

---------------

------o--------

---------------

----o----------

---------------

H>D>P

• j.K/ j.S

• teleport

-------o-------

---------------

---o-----------

------------o--

---------------

S>D>P

• 5P or 6P

---------------

--------------o

-------o-------

-o-------------

H>P>K

• dash> j.S mid ball

• dash> j.S mid ball> 2k> 5S> DC S [formation changed into P>K>S]

----o----------

-----------o---

---------------

------o--------

---------------

Zoning:

K>P

• 5P

• 5K to scatter it faster

---------------

---------------

---------o-----

----o----------

---------------

---------------

K>S

• 2P x spot after summon

• 2P> summon S> summon P> [formed K>S>P]

---------------

------o--------

-----x---------

----o----------

---------------

H>S

• Stinger Aim or if 5p can reach them use 5p> stinger aim

---------------

---------------

---------------

--o------o-----

---------------

K>S>P

• 5H > Stinger Aim (do this if they're far. its kind of hard to avoid and it does good chip damage)

• 5P mid ball to scatter

• 5P on x spot

• summon S [P>K>S formed]

---------------

---------------

------o--------

---o--x--------

--------º------

---------------

P>K>S

• summon P [s>K>P formed]

• j. P on x spot to hit both balls> then 2p bottom ball

---o-----------

-----x----------

------o--------

---------------

----o----------

H>K>P

• 5p/5k to scatter

---------------

-------------o-

--------o------

---o-----------

---------------

---------------

[•Ball Clashing Setups•]

*NEW*

1. Summon K,S, 2p, dash, hit the higher ball with 6p Effect: see for yourself

2. Summon K,S, 2p, stinger aim cancel, dash, summon any ball to hit with other balls, summon p Effect: zones half of the screen, making it almost impossible for them to escape.3.

3. Summon K,P,S, FB CR, summon H,K. Effect: creates a barrier of balls around you.

4. Summon H,K, 6P Effect: balls hit 60 degrees

[•N-otoko's Formation•]

1. P>S to P>S>H

How to do: throw> 6P> 6HS> SUM P> 6HS> SUM S> dash SUM HS> 5P on X MARK.

Note: You have to 5P on between the balls before the formation finish.

----------o--

-------------

--o--X--o---

-------------

-------------

Completed H-formation:

---------o--

------------

--------o---

------------

-------o----

2. K>S SA

How to do: summon K>S>2P on x mark before the bottom ball goes down.> stinger aim cancel

-------------

--------o----

-------X-----

------o------

-------------

3. D>H>P crossup

How to do: throw> 6P> 6H> SUM D> 6H> SUM H> dash SUM P> teleport

----------o--

---o---------

------------o

<<<<COMBO LIST FOR STYLISH PPL>>>>

Note: Sorry but i am not a real combo freak, so some of this probably aren't complete

[•BNB COMBO•]

1. Okizeme Mixup- after knockdown[you should be close]> summon K> j.K K-ball

2. Okizeme Throw- 2K> 5S(2hits)> 2D(2hits)> SUM H> dash j.H throw> [insert throw combo][Easy]

3. SA to DC- 2K> 5S(2hits)> 5H> SA [FRC]> dash 2S> 5H> DC> [insert pressure] [Easy]

4. Sweep to SA- 2K> 5S(2hits)> 2D> SA [FRC]> 6P> 6HS> SUM S> 6H> SUM K> j.K> [insert pressure] [Easy]

5. Sweep to SA2- 2K> 5S(2hits)> 2D> SA [FRC]> 6P> 6HS> CR> 6H> FB DHM > [Hard]

6. Dubious Curve Loop-[Corner] 2K> 5S> 5H> DC S [FRC]> 2S> DC S> 2S> DC S> 2S> DC S> 2S> (FB DHM) or (usual ball on corner dubious curve: DC H> SUM K)

7. FB Madstruggle[Midscreen]- FB MS> airdash> j.S> 6P> 6H> FB DHM

8. FB Madstruggle[Corner]- FB MS> 6P> 6H> CR> 6H> DC H> SUM K

[•THROW COMBO•]

1. FB DHM- throw> 6P> 6HS> CR> 6HS> SUM S> 5S> FB DHM>[Hard]

ver2 DC: throw> 6P> 6HS> CR> 6HS> SUM S> DC K>[Hard]

2. throw> 6P> 6HS> SUM BALL-1> 6HS> SUM BALL-2>[Easy]

3. throw> 6P> 6HS> SUM BALL-1> 6HS> SUM BALL-2> SUM BALL-3>[Easy]

4. throw> 6P> 6HS> Carcass Raid> IAD j.S> j.H> j.D> 5S> j.H> air summon P> j.K p-ball [HARD]

[•Dust combo•]

1. Dust combo to DC setup- 5D> j.Hs> j.Hs> Mad Struggle hs> 6H> summon S> 5S> DC S-ball> summon K-ball>[Hard]

2. Dust combo w/ Summon- 5D> j.Hs>j.D> air summon HS>j.k> j.s> jc.k> j.s> j.h>j.d>[Medium]

3. Basic damage combo- 5D> j.HS> j.HS> j.K> j.S> j.P> jc.K> j.S> j.H> j.D>[Easy]

4. Basic D-Okizeme- 5D> j.HS> j.HS> Mad Struggle HS> 6HS> [Easy]

[•DUBIOUS CURVE SETUP•]

1. Madtruggle to DC- Mad Struggle> 5S(2hits)> 5HS> DC HS> Summon K> 5K lightning ball>[Easy]

2. Dust combo to DC setup- 5D> j.Hs> j.Hs> Mad Struggle hs> 6H> summon S> 5S> DC S-ball> summon K-ball>[Medium]

3. K>S - 2K>5S>5H> Dubious Curve K> Summon S> dash j.S> air backdash> j.S>5S> teleport>[Medium]

<<<<PRESSURE>>>>

Pressure tips:

Anti-FD: Remember to use level 3 moves to prevent getting pushed back on corners. I think the higher the moves level the farther you'll be pushed back. If you're pushed back it'll be harder to continue you're pressure.

[•FUZZY GUARD SETUP•]

*NEW*

Try to use different strings of fuzzy guard so its harder to anticipate.

1. j.H> FB MS or MS

ver2: j.H> j.D> FB MS

2. j.S> FB MS or MS

3. corner H>K setup: j.k k-b> j.s> jc H> FB MS or MS

4. corner H>K setup 2: j.k k-b> airdash> j.k > j.s> FB MS or MS

5. j.k> j.p> FB MS or MS

[•OKIZEME PRESSURE•]

*NEW*

1. Corner DC OKI [H, K ball]: j.K K-b> airdash j.S> 2k> 5S> CR

version 2: j.K K-b> airdash j.S> madstruggle> 2k> 5S> CR

version 3: j.K K-b> airdash j.S> madstruggle> tk madstruggle> continue pressure

2. H-ball okizeme? [H ball]: after knockdown> summon H-b> dash j.S da H-b> 2K

ver 2: after knockdown> summon H-b> dash j.S da H-b and opp's head( yes its a cheap 50/50 mind games but N-O doesnt do the overhead j.S. Maybe its his last move resort or something making it an unexpected move thus considered unblockable.)

3. Corner DC OKI [H, K ball] w/ ball altering: 2p lightning H-b> sum S-b> 2S S-b> sum S-b> 2S S-b> sum P> 6H> teleport j.P

ver 2: 2p lightning H-b> sum S-b> 2S S-b> sum S-b> 2S S-b> 5P K,P ball> continue presure

ver 3 throw: 2p lightning H-b> sum S-b> 2S S-b> sum S-b> 2S S-b> dash throw (random throws are good especially if your opponent got used to blocking every time )

4. 2K> 5S(2hits)> Carcass Raid> dash> 5S(2hits)> Carcass Raid

5.2K> 5S(2hits> Carcass Raid> dash>*repeat*

6. N-O LOCKDOWNAfter knockdown> SUM S> Punch S-ball> SUM S> 2S> SUM S> 2S> Stinger Aim Frc> dash>

[Dubious Curve Pressure]

[Note: Orange= Pressure or blocked.]

1. N-O™- 2K> 5S(2hits)> 5H> DC HS> SUM S> 5S> Stinger Aim.

-Guaranteed lockdown after 2S hits until they reach corner. [Easy]

2. N-O™- 2K> 5S(2hits)> 5H> DC H> SUM K> dash and 2P Kball> SUM S> 2S> SUM S> 2S> 6H> teleport[Corner] [Medium]

3. N-O™- 2K> 5S(2hits)> 5H> DC S> SUM K> 2S> SUM S> 2S> 6HS> TELEPORT> j.P> continue pressure[Corner] [Medium]

4. N-O™ Anti-Burst- 2K> 5S> 5H> DC H> SUM K> j.K> 2K> CR> hits lightning ball [Easy] [Corner]

BURST WHIFF

1. 5K > 2D *burst missed*

2. cS > jump cancel *burst missed*

3. from throw> 6P > 6H RC *burst missed*

4. 5H (hard to do but it works when timed well. explaination to it is when venom 5H his hitbox gets

smaller)

[RTSD]

Nice template ?

[Klaige]

Know your opponents plan and movement before they do, that's pretty much the trick.

[Tigerofthewind]

He's been really mixing it up the past few months. I always see him with something new. One favourite at any position that N.O likes is the HS Dubious Curv> K ball.

[ajinkris]

He's been really mixing it up the past few months. I always see him with something new. One favourite at any position that N.O likes is the HS Dubious Curv> K ball.

Midscreen: he'll kick the ball and probably use the K ball in another ball formation (K,P or K,S or K,HS or K,S,P most commonly).

In the corner: he'll 2P the ball and either j.K the K ball, j.K whiff the ball for air mixup, or se the K ball in another ball formation.

EDIT:

One of the main things that sets N-O apart from other Venoms is his insane ability to improv ball formations and alter them to the current situation. No other Venom is able to manipulate ball like he does. This can come only with experience and I don't think you can actually transcribe any formulas for a skill that only experience can build. But other than that, let's get cracking on his most common combos, mixup, setups, and formations!

[axel]

Just look at the way N-O completely owned Roz's Ky in last year's SBO qualifiers and you'll know his Venom is completely on another level. Anyway, on topic, spam 5D.

[Tigerofthewind]

Hmm, I guess I should update my thread as well. After exams though. Also, it's better to not do 2D>Carcass Raid since it's easier to punish.

[Ryujin]

Would videos with examples work as well? good to see some life in the venom forums again.

[Tigerofthewind]

If anyone is willing to record. But I don't think people want a bunch of videos saying "as shown at 1:23 on this vid *insert link here*" I'll probably try and update the thread I made more once I have time. It's been a while and I've improved as well as gain experience so I can give better info on certain situations and characters.

[ky0n01]

Would videos with examples work as well? good to see some life in the venom forums again.

Yeah I'll be posting some vids for every ball setup I made.

EDIT: Does anyone know how to do N-O's H>K>S DC curve corner setup ? the balls look like this...

---------o-

----o--o--

[Tigerofthewind]

Pretty sure it's K Dubious Curv>S summon>2S>5HS>HS Dubious Curv>S ball. The HS ball and the K ball are charged. Don't quote me on that though. I remember seeing the proper set up in a vid except can't remember which one and I don't really feel like going through 40 N.O vids.

Near the end of this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do37j_NAikw&feature=PlayList&p=E9B60491C1BE199E&index=29 you see something similar to what you want.

[ky0n01]

Oh, thanks tiger.

[ajinkris]

Thanks for doing this btw, ky0n01. I've always wanted to sit down and transcribe some stuff from N-O but it always seemed way too overwhelming once I actually thought about it. Power to you!

[ky0n01]

Its no big deal ^_^ BTW if you notice some errors please let me know.

[ajinkris]

Its no big deal ^_^

BTW if you notice some errors please let me know.

I wouldn't call the FB SA and CR completely useless. It's definitely not the best use of tension, but I DO see even N-O use them sometimes. If you watch the latest 23 on 23 matches, HEVEN uses freeze ball formations (though I'm not sure if they're that awesome to begin with). Also, the angle that FB CR comes out at is nice, especially with the double bounce and the speed at which FB SA comes out shouldn't be overlooked - it's good for catching people in recovery animations.

You should also probably mention something about hit confirming 5S(f) into SA FRC > dash > 2D.

As for the BNB combos, you could probably just list the standard setups and CR loop combos. (such as the famous double CR loop > S summon > 5S > DC / DHM in the corner).

[Tigerofthewind]

FB Carcass is actually useful in zoning and locking the opponent down because of the speed, angle and how many bounces it stays on screen for. FB Stinger has very few uses and the frame disadvantage from frame recovery is pretty bad.

[ajinkris]

FB Carcass is actually useful in zoning and locking the opponent down because of the speed, angle and how many bounces it stays on screen for. FB Stinger has very few uses and the frame disadvantage from frame recovery is pretty bad.

Yea that's true, HS SA has pretty bad recovery too. I usually only use the FB SA as a game-ending poke, since it's hard to react to.

[ky0n01]

Yea that's true, HS SA has pretty bad recovery too. I usually only use the FB SA as a game-ending poke, since it's hard to react to.

My bad i thought force break version of CR is like the CR-S. Lol This is bad I'm forgetting some stuff about VE. lol. But I cant agree with you with the FB SA unless its the charged version. I'll just check it out in training mode later after I posted the bnb combos.

[Klaige]

FB SA is actually very useful in end of round situations, because of it's insane speed you can catch people off guard for chip damage or nailing someone while they try and zone you to protect themselves when they are down to a pixle.

[ky0n01]

FB SA is actually very useful in end of round situations, because of it's insane speed you can catch people off guard for chip damage or nailing someone while they try and zone you to protect themselves when they are down to a pixle.

I said its useless but I didn't meant it literally. Newbies should avoid this move for now, if they want solid gameplay.

[Klaige]

Sure, just stating that the move does have a use and it's pretty simple to execute it in that format. Having the ability to get that round ending hit at fullscreen is a luxury that not a lot of characters have.

[ajinkris]

lol I like how we just went through an entire page talking about FB SA.

[vercengetorix]

As long as we're talking about FB SA, the only time I use it is against my friend's Testament. Sometimes when I'm full screen away or so, he likes to summon EXE beast from behind, so I wait for it and jack him with the FB SA in an attempt to get him to stop doing it. Another alternative is to do the FB SA and then charge it while you wait to see if he summons or jumps. If he summons, let it go. You usually get hit, too, but the trade is in your favor. Of course, I would regard this as a waste of tension outside of round-ending situations, so it doesn't happen often at all.

[ky0n01]

BTW~ I'm a 100% sure N-O spends the most time in training mode than any of the top players. ^_<

[Tigerofthewind]

Not too sure about that one. Most of his execution is based on anticipation and situations. He definitely utilizes ball formations more than any other Venom player though.