[P4A] Yu Narukami - Wiki Discussion

[VR-Raiden]

Since we've been getting more discussion going on the wiki lately, I figured I would make a thread dedicated to wiki discussion like many other character forums have.

Post any suggestions, issues, questions, or whatever else related to the wiki in here.

Yu Narukami Wiki

Recently I've started adding more info to the descriptions of his normals. I plan to update some more combos and the Offense section soon.

Revision History:

2/17/13

- updated Post-5D j.B, 2A, fuzzy j.A with airdash combos

- added j.214A+B OMB combo

- description to 5D(2) vs 5D(3), added to non-tech solution

2/13/13

- updated FC 236D, 2C, AoA

2/10/13

- added Post-5D combos for 214A, other side 2A, cross up 5DD

2/10/13

- added Post-5D combos for 214A, other side 2A, cross up 5DD

2/9/13

- updated C+D/j.C+D combos, added j.C+D combos

2/6/13

- reorganized Post-5D combos

- stronger 5B 5C 214D (OMC) combo added

- updated 214A, 5D, 5C, replaced 214214C with Cross Slash

- added character specific combos section

- added some throw OMB combos, more to come later

2/5/13

- updated 214A, CH j.2A, Post-5D 2A

- added comments to 5D setups, placeholder for 5D(2) vs 5D(3) section

2/4/13

- Attack descriptions: fixed typo, updated j.D description

- added Cross Slash to safe-jump j.B setups

- added corner 5A, 2A combos ending in j.D

- added/updated Post-5D j.B/2A combos

- added/updated Post-5D fuzzy fj.A combos

2/3/13

- added j.D Okizeme section

- added j.D combos section with combos

- new air hit 2B combos added, updated existing ones

- updated 5B/5C OMB combos

- updated CH C+D

1/28/13

- added opponent doesn't tech solution description, comments on mix-ups

1/26/13

- notes to make midscreen 5B OMB combo more clear, added stronger 5C OMB

- updated same side 2A: replaced OMB combo with more stable one, added new OMB combo

1/25/13

- added safe-jump setups, 5D setups, descriptions

- rearranged combos

1/24/13

- Added hyperlinks to Dustloop threads.

- Rearranged combos. Still a work in progress but I think it's better. Now you can see all combos for each starter in the same place instead of needing to scroll for screen position. Currently I just put notes for combos that require corner but this will probably be organized better somehow soon (suggestions welcome).

- Added a beginner combo list instead of bolding ones in the actual list.

- Updated 214A combos.

- Added mix-ups.

- Realized there's still lots of dumb combos, will be working on that soon.

- The overview at the top could use some updating too, will work on that.

1/23/13

- Added blockstrings explanations to Offense section.

- Added placeholders for mix-ups.

- Added note that some beginner combos are in bold in the Combos Summary description.

1/22/13

- Replaced 5A with more practical combo. Old combo required closest possible range 5A hit. 5A > 5C > 2B > 5B > 2A+B > 5D (1399) is now 5A > 5AA > 5B > 2B > 2A+B > 5D - (1147)

- Completed adding descriptions to all attacks.

- Added description to Tutorial Video section and Combos Summary section.

- Added anti-air CH 5A combo. air hit CH 5A > delay 2A+B > 5D - (572)

Edited February 17, 2013 by VR-Raiden
revision history 2/6/13

[Narroo]

Sweet! Anything I can do to help?

[huey253]

i'm 95 percent sure that Cross Slash is not 26F startup. (I know the frame data says so)

We should try to figure out how fast it really is...

[MashThat5A]

Maybe that includes the screen freeze.

[huey253]

Well, for one, that would be completely different on how they do the frame data from every other move but its possible.

I still would have a hard time believing it was 15F startup... I'll ask Spark I guess.

[skd]

its 18f startup total, 5f post flash

Edited January 21, 2013 by not_lunaris

[VR-Raiden]

Sweet! Anything I can do to help?

Well there's SP gain on lots of moves that needs to be added (exciting I know) if you want to do that.

i'm 95 percent sure that Cross Slash is not 26F startup. (I know the frame data says so)

We should try to figure out how fast it really is...

Fixed that according to SKD's post, put it as 13+5.

I'm also noticing the air versions of 214A/B/A+B have the same SD as ground versions, which obviously isn't true. So for now I'm going to blank those out, and just note in the description that they're unsafe, or negative depending on when they connect.

EDIT: Can somebody verify this, I'm finding that 5AAA and 2C forward dash cancels are both -6 on normal block. I'm not 100% sure my way of testing the frames is accurate.

Edited January 21, 2013 by VR-Raiden

[crimsonstardust]

From a beginners stand point the combo list looks very intimidating for someone trying to get into the game and learn how to play Yu. I'm not to sure what would be the effective way to go about this but maybe bold the combos in each starter that isn't to easy nor to hard, but optimal enough to get you by with. Though I probably would go through most of the list cause I'm a little more willing to try a lot of this out.

[Tong]

I'd suggest something like: Meterless Combos, 50% Meter, 100% Meter and sub-items: Awakening, Non-Awekening combos.

Optimally, burst combos shouldn't be used unless you get at least 50% gauge.

Yu combos are extremely situational, and knowing which finishers and how much gauge to use depends on good judgement.

It's not just "Do it whatever" , so there's not really an easier way to sort them.

[Narroo]

My thought would to be to make sure that the combos are both practical, and format them somehow to have notes on general use somehow. For instance, the 5A meterless combo seems, as far as I can tell to have a range of one pixel, and even then it's hard to land. I spent a fair amount of time wondering why it wasn't connecting, trying to connect it, before I thought to back a step away and see that in most situations you'd never actually be able to land it unless you have a pixel perfect position, and great timing...unless there's a trick to severely mitigating pushback that I'm unaware of. Thus, that combo seems, at least, to be both confusing and something of a time waster.

Or, that 5B combo. 5B > 214C is apparently only for when you hit with the very tip of 5B. Doesn't mention it on the wiki, nor, last time I checked, were there meterless or counterhitless alternatives listed. Most players should quickly realize that the combo is not optimal in most situations if your opponent is even slightly closer to you, so the combo is easily a strange, confusing entry unless you ask on the forums, like I did, or do a lot of experimenting to see that 214C is the only thing that connects after 5B at the very edge of it's range.

So, that's my thought. Please tell me if I got any of that wrong. (I would love to find a way to get that 2B into that midscreen 5A combo!)

[VR-Raiden]

I'll try to add a list of beginner combos, and either rearrange how combos are listed or make it more clear.

I added a few notes already on the purpose of certain combos (including 5b 214c, did that yesterday). I'll add that to more. As for the 5a combo, dunno if you saw my post in the q&a thread but ill fix that next, omitting the 5b is a solution.

I'll start noting what changes i make when in the first post.

[Narroo]

As for the 5a combo, dunno if you saw my post in the q&a thread but ill fix that next, omitting the 5b is a solution.

I'll start noting what changes i make when in the first post.

Mhmm, I know. Thanks!

EDIT: EDIT: Moved the info into a new post. Sorry for the double post.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Narroo

[Narroo]

Hm, editing doesn't register as a new post so~

I've done the SP gain for Yu's normals. When I was doing the persona moves, I realized that the SP gain is actually in fractions, and the game rounds (down, I assume?) There were a bit of oddities...for instance 5D usually gives about 5SP, unless you're at 0, so I assume the SP gain for a 5D with all three hits is something like 4.9% SP, but I'm not sure what the exact numbers are. The numbers I gave are what you get when starting fresh from zero; in the case of the persona attacks I also tried giving the fractions...should probably revisit the A and B normals.

[skd]

Hm, editing doesn't register as a new post so~

I've done the SP gain for Yu's normals. When I was doing the persona moves, I realized that the SP gain is actually in fractions, and the game rounds (down, I assume?) There were a bit of oddities...for instance 5D usually gives about 5SP, unless you're at 0, so I assume the SP gain for a 5D with all three hits is something like 4.9% SP, but I'm not sure what the exact numbers are. The numbers I gave are what you get when starting fresh from zero; in the case of the persona attacks I also tried giving the fractions...should probably revisit the A and B normals.

attack ten times~

[Narroo]

attack ten times~

Shesh, I'm thick. I did it like 5 times, and it never occurred to me to try ten. I suppose it was because I was thinking in Fractions, not decimal at the time. (And I was tired, I swear!) Anyways, 5D, if it hits 5 times, gives 4.9%, as confirmed by the 10 time method. Let's hope there's no 100th place there.

EDIT: To whoever changed the Offense section: The wiki is becoming Godlike now. Thank you!

Edited February 2, 2013 by Narroo

[VR-Raiden]

lol why is the pic for B+D Vapor Thrust now

I'm updating stuff on the wiki again. Working on adding in more mix-ups with Grover's help, and possibly reorganizing it so it's easier to follow.

Also, trying to optimize full screen corner carry FC 214B and FC 236D combos, which make the midscreen only ones obsolete. So far I have these:

FC 214B > dash 5B > 5C > sj.B > delay j.BB > j.214B > dash 5A > j.C > j.214B > 2B > j.C > j.214B > 5D - (3801) (full screen carry)

FC 214B > dash 5B > 5C > sj.B > delay j.BB > j.214B > dash 5A > j.C > j.214B > 2B > 5C > j.B > j.B+D - (3865, +Ziodyne 4776) (full screen carry)

FC 214B > dash 5B > 5C > sj.B > delay j.BB > j.214B > dash 5A > j.C > j.214B > 2B > j.C > j.214B > Cross Slash - (5091) (full screen carry)

For FC 236D it seems like you can do similar things after 214D (OMC) > 214B.

If anyone is willing to help improve those or find new ones it'd be big help.

I updated 5D j.B/2A airdash combos, and added burst punish air hit 5C combos.

Edited March 5, 2013 by VR-Raiden

[Shinsyn]

lol why is the pic for B+D Vapor Thrust now

I have no idea but I'm going to fix that...

EDIT: The correct picture has been placed in the Wiki.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Shinsyn

[PK Gaming]

I think the wiki could use a slight update. Not a complete overhaul, but we could benefit from an update to the pros & cons section. I know that it's been ages since the wiki was last updated, and with P4U coming out there's even less of an incentive to update it, but even so, there's no harm in giving it a touch up, since it's very inaccurate. 

 

If nobody's interested, I think I could come up with an overview that's more accurate to Yu Narukami. It was probably my single favorite resource to learning how to use Narukami in P4A, so I felt like returning the favor somehow.

[VR-Raiden]

I think the wiki could use a slight update. Not a complete overhaul, but we could benefit from an update to the pros & cons section. I know that it's been ages since the wiki was last updated, and with P4U coming out there's even less of an incentive to update it, but even so, there's no harm in giving it a touch up, since it's very inaccurate. 

 

If nobody's interested, I think I could come up with an overview that's more accurate to Yu Narukami. It was probably my single favorite resource to learning how to use Narukami in P4A, so I felt like returning the favor somehow.

Oh yeah that is definitely pretty outdated/inaccurate looking at it again (I chuckled at "does not excel at any single category"). Feel free to update that, thanks for offering to do so.

[PK Gaming]

No problem, i'm happy to help.

 

Just one thing... how do I make a Dustloop wiki account? Would it be better if I just posted my changes here?

[VR-Raiden]

You can actually make edits without an account. But if you really want one you can send shtkn a message:
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4282-dustloop-wiki-feedback-thread/?p=425832

[PK Gaming]

Here's the updated overview:

 

Strengths

Well-rounded fighter, devastating okizeme game, proficient at using meter to increase damage

Weaknesses

None (lacks an outstanding weakness)

Movement Options

1 Double Jump/Airdash, Run-type Dash

Play-style

Yu works as a beginner-friendly character in the game with simple and effective tools to help him in almost any given scenario. He has a simple projectile for zoning; a sliding slash and a diving sword thrust for additional movement+angles of attack; an uppercut with invincibility for interrupting opponent's attacks; and a full screen super attack to punish opponents who recklessly press buttons. His long ranged normals allow him to easily control space, and can hitconfirm into deadly combos. While his damage without meter is only average at best, he's capable of using resources (such as meter or OMB) to extend combos, which results in a significant increase in damage. The crux of his game plan comes in the form of his sweep into 5D combo string. This forces the opponent block, and grants Yu a guaranteed mix-up. When used properly, this oki setup can allow Yu to completely overwhelm his opponents.

 

Thoughts? 

[VR-Raiden]

Sounds good to me, only thing I would say is maybe specify more that his damage is only significant with meter/OMB or 5D out. But he is very good at converting any increment of meter (mostly above 50%) to increased damage. So basically he can make good use of his meter to extend combos.

[PK Gaming]

Thanks! I updated the overview again. If I screwed up or missed something, let me know asap.

 

---

Another thing that needs addressing is the J.B Okizeme section. The comment section has been left blank.

 

j.D Okizeme

Setups

• 214B > j.2A > j.D

- Comments

• 5C > j.2A > j.D

- Comments

 

I'm not really acquainted with either of these combos, so I wouldn't be able to give a meaningful description. 

 

 

 

 

   

[VR-Raiden]

 

Thanks! I updated the overview again. If I screwed up or missed something, let me know asap.

 

---

Another thing that needs addressing is the J.B Okizeme section. The comment section has been left blank.

 

 

 

I'm not really acquainted with either of these combos, so I wouldn't be able to give a meaningful description. 

 

Oh j.D oki, yeah those were left blank I guess. I put the placeholders there but never got around to writing about them. I happen to dislike j.D oki in general that's probably partly the reason (I was always horrible at guessing what the opponent would do, or mistimed the meaty 5A). The description above those gives the general idea. I think the idea behind listing those separate was the height at which you do j.D in each of those set ups allows for some different things, like I think how they react if thrown at a certain point. SKD made some posts on in a long time ago, probably a few pages back in gameplay discussion or something.

 

Basic j.D oki is meaty 5A to stop jump/roll (loses to reversals). If they blocked, the most common route is 5AAA(JC) > j.D blocked > empty jump low/delay airdash j.A mix up (or some other form of jumping in mix up).

 

Those combos are abbreviated, the first move is an air hit (for example both of those can be used from corner throw. throw>2A>5C>j.2A>j.D or throw>2A>5C>2C>214B>j.2A>j.D)