[CP] Valkenhayn Combo Thread - I'll Shred Your Flesh! (Updated: 04/15/14)

[Magaki]

Well, it's true that it's not really THAT bad. I agree with that point but out of all the combo enders we have, this is the one with the worst oki. It's still oki though but I consider that this is an ender that should only be used if you really have to.

P.S: Congrats for your awards man.

And thank you 50-50 for helping with the matchup threads. I seriously should try to contribute more there.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Magaki

[50-50罠]

Your welcome, and I just hope the info is helpful to everyone.

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[Tomo009]

I'm struggling with these w[1D > D] > h[2C] and similar pickups.

Is there a certain timing or spacing I should be aiming for to get to the ground quick enough for these?

[50-50罠]

The issue I ran into with that was letting Valk get to the ground before inputting 2c and remembering 5d and jd are attack cancelable at 7f. Wolf ja actually gives you a lot of time to cancel late into 2c. It's not a fast input per say, if your attempting to input as fast as possible that could be your problem.

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[Dreize]

Every Valkenhayn should learn/know how to use the w[j.C] > dj.D > j.C > (j.C) ender. You're most likely going to be using it somewhere, and the oki it gives in the corner isn't too bad.

I'm struggling with these w[1D > D] > h[2C] and similar pickups.

Is there a certain timing or spacing I should be aiming for to get to the ground quick enough for these?

You may want to tell me the specific combo that you're doing, but...

6. So I've been trying to get this down 5C > j.A > j.C > j.236B > 1D > j.D > h[2C > 6B] but the 1D wont come out. What am I doing wrong?

Answer: You can only cancel j.236B into 1D during about 2/3rd's of it's animation. Meaning, you need to delay the 1D a bit after inputting the j.236B. Here's a visual cue that will help you out: Wait until Valkenhayn's body has fully passed through the opponent, then immediately input the 1D.

Though it does seem to vary a bit on different aerial hitboxes. I'm currently in the process of trying to find a universal timing.

[50-50罠]

I'm going to add my 2cent on the falling jc> jc oki topic. What do you guys think about falling jc> jc> moonlight> wolf? Wouldn't that help lead to better oki instead of just landing and transforming?

I've been adding it into my mid-screen jc ender game with moderate to decent results. I say moderate to decent because I haven't explored the potential behind it fully yet.

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[Kiba]

Every Valkenhayn should learn/know how to use the w[j.C] > dj.D > j.C > (j.C) ender. You're most likely going to be using it somewhere, and the oki it gives in the corner isn't too bad.

I try to avoid that ender, especially in the corner. Not only am I inconsistent with it but I really try to emphasise my oki around the 6C > 3C or 8j.B > 8j.B > 8j.C enders. The oki is way better. I'd rather use the hj.B> j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C, and in fact I have begun to omit the dj.B > j.C (Masashi ender route midscreen) as I wanna get to the ground quicker.

This is just a personal preference as I'm very aggressive (and impatient) with Valk but I'm not saying that you guys shouldn't use the w[j.C] > dj.D > j.C > (j.C). Use what you prefer.

[50-50罠]

I still use old man jb> jb> jc ender too. I haven't noticed what different oki setups I get off it as opposed to jb> ja> jb> jb> jc.

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[Dreize]

6A CH combos are kinda crappy to begin with. 6A in and of itself is crappy too. Honestly the best thing to do in a case like this is to use the combo that has the best corner carry & lowest wolf gauge usage.

If the opponent is high enough you can confirm a 6A CH into 5C > j.D > w[j.A] but if not you have to use 5B if I'm not mistaken.

I'm going to add my 2cent on the falling jc> jc oki topic. What do you guys think about falling jc> jc> moonlight> wolf? Wouldn't that help lead to better oki instead of just landing and transforming?

I've been adding it into my mid-screen jc ender game with moderate to decent results. I say moderate to decent because I haven't explored the potential behind it fully yet

Midscreen I normally just do 3C > 6D.

I try to avoid that ender, especially in the corner. Not only am I inconsistent with it but I really try to emphasise my oki around the 6C > 3C or 8j.B > 8j.B > 8j.C enders. The oki is way better. I'd rather use the hj.B> j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C, and in fact I have begun to omit the dj.B > j.C (Masashi ender route midscreen) as I wanna get to the ground quicker.

This is just a personal preference as I'm very aggressive (and impatient) with Valk but I'm not saying that you guys shouldn't use the w[j.C] > dj.D > j.C > (j.C). Use what you prefer.

Aesthetically speaking my ender of choice will always be w[j.C] > dj.D > j.C > (j.C) but in terms of oki I prefer the tk.214B > 6C > 3C ender.

The 5B > 5C > tk.214B > Foward Dash > 5C >, etc route is not universal so I mostly prefer doing 5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD > j.D > j.A > j.A > 5B > j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C > dj.D > j.C. Though I've actually been working on an alternative that is better than both albeit a bit harder.

I always do sj.B> j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C midscreen because it gives slightly better corner carry & slightly better damage. Even though it takes slightly longer to land I still prefer it. In the corner I just do the regular j.B > dj.B > j.C.

The j.B > dj.B > j.C ender gives pretty decent oki in the corner but my god does it bore the hell out of me. I still use it very often though, but prefer the tk.214B > 6C > 3C ender.

5A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [2784 DMG, 19 HG]

This combo has been piquing my interest for quite a while now. It's super simple and is very similar to our regular 5A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 236A], etc route except it gives a relatively substantial damage increase for pretty much the exact same amount of wolf gauge usage.

Though it feels a bit...unstable. And may contain certain character specific elements as well unfortunately. I'll have to do a bit more testing.

There's also a few more combos that I need to add to this thread but haven't gotten around to yet, including some more character specific tidbits that we haven't fully addressed yet.

Shyn, if I'm not mistaken we have a better cornered 236C route that uses less wolf meter & does more damage. I'm not certain about the character specifics yet so I'll hold off until I do some testing. Thank you so much for providing that character specific list by the way, really nice work.

[50-50罠]

Yea in terms of corner I use 6c> 3c> schwartz (whiff), mid-screen I use jb> ja> jb> jb> jc if I don't corner carry. Im aware 6a gets next to null in terms of dmg just wondered if anybody broke the mold with it by chance.

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Edited December 4, 2013 by 50-50罠

[Dreize]

6A is an S starter so there's really not much you can do there.

[50-50罠]

I forgot about starter types actually. That's good to know then, and clears things up.

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[Shyn]

Shyn, if I'm not mistaken we have a better cornered 236C route that uses less wolf meter & does more damage. I'm not certain about the character specifics yet so I'll hold off until I do some testing. Thank you so much for providing that character specific list by the way, really nice work.

What would that be? 6C + 6B into cannon ender? eg.:

(CO) 5C > 236C > walk 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > 5C > j.D > w[j.AA > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A] [4219 DMG, 30 HG]

If so: It does a bit more, but you can't super. Also if you want 3C oki that alternative does a lot less. But yeah it is good for non super damage and wolf meter since there's no dashes. However, you regain a decent amount of the wolf meter in the 236C>w5C combo with the human stuff after the cannons. In fact, if you are starting with almost full meter you'll get it all back anyway. In any case I pretty much had super in mind making those combos. I'm pretty sure it's the best damage so far in that case. (EDIT: Well, I'm sure you could get more with sweep loop)

If you mean something similar to above but with j.214B>2D... Well, that also requires a wolf dash, and it's much later in the combo after all the human stuff. In that case I think doing my combo but w/o the air cannon is a much better trade off of damage to wolf meter. Also same thing with super ender and whatnot.

And of course if we're talking about 5C CH, then you can go straight into 6C, but that's a different story...

@Kiba: I tried the 5C one again, worked fine with both wj.Cs.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Shyn

[Shyn]

Speaking of 5C CH... The two listed seem kinda bad to me. (unless you want rising j.C ender)

5C CH > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > j.214B > 5D > w[5C > 236A > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A] [4337 DMG, 31 HG]

5C CH > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > j.214B > 5D > w[5C > 236A > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > 6DD] > j.C [4306 DMG, 30 HG]

That's just what I've been doing. There's probably something better...

Also, I guess there's:

5C CH > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > j.214B > 5D > w[5C > 236A > 5D] > 2C > 236A > 3C > 236B/632146D Schwarz:[4120 DMG, 29 HG] Sturm:[5032 DMG, 28HG]

if you want 3C ender but don't wanna spend the wolf meter for the 236C combo. I feel like we should be able to do better, but this is what I could come up with just now. XD

Edited December 4, 2013 by Shyn

[Dreize]

What would that be? 6C + 6B into cannon ender? eg.:

(CO) 5C > 236C > walk 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > 5C > j.D > w[j.AA > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A] [4219 DMG, 30 HG]

Yes, exactly, this is the route that I was referring to.

Just to do a quick comparison...

(CO) 5B > 5C > 236C > 2D > w[5C > 236A > j.C > j.236B > 2DD] > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > j.214B > 6C > 3C [3985 DMG, 28 HG]

vs (CO) 5B > 5C > 236C > Slight Walk > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > 5C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [3972 DMG] (first combo that I came up with off of the top of my head, might need optimization).

Both combos do pretty much the exact same amount of damage yet the 2nd combo uses no wolf whatsoever, is executionally easier, and is universal. You can still end with a super (Konig Flug) or even Sturm Wolf is you're willing to shorten the end a bit.

And of course the other combo that you provided does 4.2k and still uses no wolf command dashes.

Aesthetically speaking I like your route though, and the 3C ender is better than the j.B > dj.B > j.C ender in my opinion so there's that. Plus you can end with Sturm Wolf whilst still doing the full combo.

The thing that really holds me back with a combo like that is the fact that it's not universal though.

[Kiba]

@Kiba: I tried the 5C one again, worked fine with both wj.Cs.

Who did you try this on?

This combo also doesn't seem to work on Tsubaki or Tager because they can tech out before the w5C hits. I could be wrong though since you are getting this combo down. It's doable with one cannon, but you've gotta be pretty fast with the 2D > j.D > 2C.

[Shyn]

Who did you try this on?

This combo also doesn't seem to work on Tsubaki or Tager because they can tech out before the w5C hits. I could be wrong though since you are getting this combo down. It's doable with one cannon, but you've gotta be pretty fast with the 2D > j.D > 2C.

It was Jin just now, but I actually did it on most of the cast when I was originally checking. When exactly is it dropping for you?

And yeah, it doesn't work on Tsubaki and Tager without FC. If you check the original post I have a list.

@Dreize Well... again, the main purpose of those is for super/3C ender. As I mentioned before, if you shorten the one you have to do sturm, it does quite a bit less, and konig is garbage damage now. But yeah, if you're not going for max (non OD) damage or 3C oki, then I wouldn't go for them.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Shyn

[Kiba]

They tech out before the 6C, & that's weird because Jin was the one I was practicing it on.

[Dreize]

Looks like I'll have to be the mediator here.

Okay, so, I tested out the combo in question on Jin (primarily), Hakumen, and Bang.

At first I was having the same issue that Kiba is having on Jin, it blue beats at 6C. I did several tests and got the exact same results.

Then I started to speed up the pace at which I executed the combo and it would red beat completely with no issue. Got it to work several times on Jin, Hakumen, and Bang.

The issue here is most likely a speed-related one that has to do with the combo-timer. Speed up your inputs and it should work just fine, Kiba.

[Kiba]

I didn't mean to escalate this problem guys, apologies.

I figured it was a speed issue, though I thought I was inputting it fast enough. Apparently not. Thanks.

[Dreize]

I truly don't see these types of situations as problems that need to be apologized for, these are just situations that are bound to come up every once in a while wherein a bit of confusion/debate arises. Kiba, you did nothing wrong.

Thanks for the combos Shyn and thank you for testing them out Kiba. I'll be updating the OP this weekend.

[Dreize]

As promised, updated the combo thread.

-Added some combos.

-Edited/optimized some combos.

-Added an underrated combo section to the OP.

Kiba, do you mind if I re-add the Back to Corner section in the combo thread because there seems to be a lot of these combos. Or do think that keeping them in the guide is best? At any rate, here are a few more; I didn't add these to the OP yet.

-5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > IAD > j.A > Delay j.A > 5D > h[2C > 236A > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [3250 DMG, 23 HG]

-5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[5C > 236A] > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 2C > j.D] > j.A > j.C > j.236B > 3D > j.C > dj.D > h[j.C] [3052 DMG, 21 HG]

-5A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > IAD > j.A > Delay j.A > 5D > h[5B > 2C > j.B > j.C] [2459 DMG, 17 HG]

-5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 2C > 236C] > 9D > j.B > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 236A > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [3075 DMG, 22 HG]

-5C > 6D > j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236B > 6D > j.B > j.A > 5D > h[2C > 236A > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [3179 DMG, 22 HG]

-5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C] > j.D > j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236B > 6D > j.B > j.A > 5D > h[2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [3072 DMG, 22 HG]

-5A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236B > 2D > j.D > h[5B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] [2434 DMG, 17 HG]

[Kiba]

Sure go ahead, add 'em to the combo thread. I know I can be a bit of a hassle going back and forth on stuff.

Thanks.

-5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > IAD > j.A > Delay j.A > 5D > h[2C > 236A > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [3250 DMG, 23 HG]

You can opt for -5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 6D > h[2C > 236A > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [3352 DMG, 24 HG] if you're not too far away. (Your combo is conveniently better)

-5A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236B > 2D > j.D > h[5B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] [2434 DMG, 17 HG]

Is there a particular reason you used h[5B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] over h[5B > 2C > j.B > j.B > j.C] which is slightly stronger?

Edited December 9, 2013 by Kiba

[Dreize]

You can opt for -5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 6D > h[2C > 236A > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [3352 DMG, 24 HG] if you're not too far away. (Your combo is conveniently better)

Oh, I know. If I was going to go with that route I'd do 6D > h[2C > 6B], etc first though.

The great thing about the above combo is the fact that it's the only Back to Corner route we have in wolf mode that only requires one wolf command dash.

Is there a particular reason you used h[5B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] over h[5B > 2C > j.B > j.B > j.C] which is slightly stronger?

More convenient on certain hitboxes such as Makoto and Carl. I'll change it though. The damage difference is relatively negligible.

[Grifter]

I've been sticking to easier combos while relearning Valk from CS, and I'm at the point where I'd like to improve my corner enders for a more optimal mix of oki and damage.

Currently, I tend to finish w/the following depending on starter/meter (much thanks to this thread):

... > w[236B > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A]

... > 5B~2C > jc.B > dj.BC

... > w[j.AAAC > dj.D] > j.C

Can I get some suggestions for improving on these? Is the following ender I saw in a Hima video considered a best practice?

... > w[j.AC~j.236B > j.3D > j.C > dj.D] > j.C

Edited December 10, 2013 by Grifter