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Dreize

[CP] Valkenhayn Combo Thread - I'll Shred Your Flesh! (Updated: 04/15/14)

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The enders you're using are all good so there isn't much room for improvement there, but I personally don't like the w[j.AAA > j.C > dj.D > j.C] or Hima enders because you're left too high in the air, though it's ok against those who don't tech immediately so you can do falling j.C afterwards. Personally I prefer to stay grounded.

I would advise you to incorporate the 6C > 3C (> 236B) enders in your repertoire. The oki is good and you build quite a good amount of wolf meter back.

More convenient on certain hitboxes such as Makoto and Carl. I'll change it though. The damage difference is relatively negligible.

Gotcha, in that case I'll leave the change down to you.

Edited by Kiba

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Coming off what I did in CS2, I assumed it may still be better to finish extra high to have that second j.C ready threatening + land as they're teching but I'll reevaluate. Is it worse now?

I've also been avoiding 6C > 3C because it seemed to sacrifice too much damage but I've started working it in as a low wolf meter option. Will put some focus into hitting that 3C consistently.

Thanks for the input!

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Coming off what I did in CS2, I assumed it may still be better to finish extra high to have that second j.C ready threatening + land as they're teching but I'll reevaluate. Is it worse now?

I've also been avoiding 6C > 3C because it seemed to sacrifice too much damage but I've started working it in as a low wolf meter option. Will put some focus into hitting that 3C consistently.

Thanks for the input!

The oki it provides is more or less the same, I don't see it as been worse, but it is inferior to the 6C > 3C and dj.8b > j.8B > dj.8C enders.

The 6C > 3C enders don't sacrifice that much damage tbh. I'll give you an example:

w5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 6C > 2C > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C] deals 3.5k

w5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C deals 3.3k, but does 3.4k if you add the 236B.

Ofc it varies depending on which starter you use but you'll be losing out on about 100 - 200 damage with the 6C > 3C enders which isn't bad at all. You're welcome. Anytime.

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Not sure I'll ever be comfortable going for w[5D] > 2C > 6B in a combo but these seem like better places to start than the midscreen variations. I'm finding that 236A restores much of the damage I thought I was losing (minimal CSE exposure so I'd forgotten of it) tho so that helps!

For w[5C > 236A] in the corner, I need to hit the 5C as early as possible, right?

While I'm at it, I've found that 2C > 6B is very inconsistent vs Amane in the corner. Is it confirmed that he or a set of characters is more likely to fall out?

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For w[5C > 236A] in the corner, I need to hit the 5C as early as possible, right?

While I'm at it, I've found that 2C > 6B is very inconsistent vs Amane in the corner. Is it confirmed that he or a set of characters is more likely to fall out?

Yep you're right, otherwise the followup 236A will whiff.

2C > 6B is only inconsistent on Amane. You need to do 2C > Slight delay 6B > Slight delay 2C.

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Corner: 5B > 5C > 236B~236B > w[brJA > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D] > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C [3973Dmg, 28HG]

Corner 50% heat: 5B > 5C > 236B~236B > RC > 5D > w[5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D] > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C [4217Dmg, 21HG]

Midscreen to corner: 6B CH > 2C > 5C > 236C > 6D > w[4C > 5C > 3D4C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D] > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C [4204Dmg, 30HG] 2 loops 4378Dmg, 31HG. 3 loops 4535Dmg, 32HG. With 3 loops if you do it too slowly they will immediately tech after 3C.

Midscreen to corner 25% heat: 6B(1) CH > CT > 2C > 5C > 236C > 6D > w[4C > 5C > 3D4C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D] > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C [5018Dmg, 19HG] Techs right after 3C if you add another loop.

I found out you can do a cross under off of w236A combos with 6D > j.B. It's impractical but I think it looks kind of cool, figured I'd post it so if there's anyone looking for flashy combos for a combo video.

Example for it w5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 6D > j.B (cross under) > 5C > ect...

Edited by KaiserCX

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^Nice.

Ryuu listed some 2C combos on twitter.

2C > 5C > tk.214B > 6D > w[j.236A > j.236B > 6D > j.B > j.A > 5D] > 2C > 6C > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [3671 DM] - Here

2C > 5C > tk.214B > 6D > w[j.A (whiff) > land 5B > j.B > 3D > j.A > 5D] > 2C > 6B > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [3706] - Here (Added to first post)

2C > 5C > tk.214B > 6D > j.D > 3C > 236C > 6D > w[j.236B > 1D > j.D ] > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 3C [3825] - Here

Edited by Kiba

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Combo thread will be updated again this weekend.

Just gonna leave this here as a sort of mental note to myself:

5A/j.A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5B > IAD > j.B > j.C > 5B > sj.A > j.C > dj.D > h[j.C > (j.C)]

Stable On: Platinum, Nu-13, Arakune, Izayoi, Azrael, Terumi, Bullet, Valkenhayn, Ragna, Litchi, Hazama, Relius, Makoto, Taokaka, Mu-12.

Doesn't Work/Unstable On: Bang, Rachel, Jin, Tsubaki, Amane, Carl, Noel, Tager, Hakumen.

Notes:

-Combo must be performed very quickly, do not delay anything.

-This combo is the "middle ground" so to speak.

-Works better as a midscreen to corner type of thing, please pay attention to screen positioning.

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Happened to be in training with Kagura as the partner and I feel the above combo does not work on him with w[5A/j.A] starter. The second w[5B] always whiffs for me. Also, not sure if this is the right thread for command throw setups, but I have a short one that was not shown in the recent video. It's:

w[5C > 6D > j.A > 5A > 6D > j.236C]

I've only tested it on Kagura. Only works if opponent is mashing neutral tech, so I think it is best done in the corner. It does work midscreen however. I used it at the end of four w[5C > 6D > j.A] loops and it still worked. It's very trollish but it is a tool. xP

If the opponent is trying to air tech out of the corner, just jump cancel w[5A] away from the corner and delay Himmel Wolf to catch him.

EDIT: More testing shows it works consistently with Kagura, Litchi, Ragna, Noel, Tager, Hakumen, Hazama, Bullet, Mu, Carl, Arakune, Tsubaki, Rachel, Terumi, Kokonoe, and Nu.

These characters have specific variations: Amane (delay the w[5A]), Valkenhayn/Jin/Makoto/Relius (do two w[5A]s before 6D>236C), and Platinum/Azrael (needs two w[5A]s as well but first one must be slightly delayed).

Can't find a way to make it work on Tao. x(

Edited by RedTag14

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Jasu posted another combo - Here.

Corner: (CO) w[6D > j.B] > 5D > 2C > 6B > 5B > 5C > 236C > 2D > w[5C > 236A > 236B? > 2D > j.D] > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B [3520 DM]

Edited by Kiba

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Midscreen: Throw > 236A (supposed to whiff) > 6D > j.D > 2B > 5C > j.D > w[j.A > j.C > j.236A > j.236B > 6D > j.D] > j.C [2326 DM, 16 HG] - I obviously wouldn't recommend this combo and I'm not adding it to the list (Timing strict with connecting 2B and overall damage is inferior to alternative combos which are easier). However, if you were to opt for this combo, you can substitute the 6D > j.C ender for wj.214B instead. Consumes little wolf meter.

Midscreen: Throw > 236C > 6D > w[j.C > j.236B > 1D/2D > j.D] > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [2518 DM 18 HG] - This one I'll add. I got > 1D > 2C > 6B > 5B to work but anything after that will drop. You can do the hj.B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C ender if you wish, which will total up to 2570 DM but you'll be higher in the air.

In response to Ryuu's combos, I came up with this:

2C > 5C > tk.214B > 6D > j.D > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.D > w[j.A > j.C > j.236A > j.236B > j.214B] [4232 DM, 30 HG]

-Edit: Added more combos.

Edited by Kiba

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Corner

6C FC > 2C > 6B > 2C > 5C > tk.214B > (Forward dash here if necessary) > 3C > 236B~236B > 6D > w[j.A > 5C > 236A > 236B > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A] [4000 DM, 28 HG]

Edited by Kiba

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Nice FC 6C combo, I've been meaning to experiment with 6C fatal.

w5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > j.C > j.236B > 1D > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 5B > 5C > j.B > dj.B > dj.C] [3292Dmg, 23HG]

EDIT: Don't bother with that combo, it's character specific that works on Tsubaki, partially works on Amane and fails on Rachel, not going to bother doing a full list as it's not worth the 50 damage increase over dash 5C combo.

Edited by KaiserCX

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w[5C > 6D > j.A > 5D] > 5B > 2C > 236C misses on Nu. If anyone has tested this on the cast, I've love to know because the utility of this combo has been great.

w[5C > 6D > j.A > 5D] > 5B > 236A missing (usually) on Amane.

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w[5C > 6D > j.A > 5D] > 5B > 2C > 236C misses on Nu. If anyone has tested this on the cast, I've love to know because the utility of this combo has been great.

w[5C > 6D > j.A > 5D] > 5B > 236A missing (usually) on Amane.

The first post have a character specific section containing your answer. Please read it first next time before asking for this kind of thing.

As for Amane, his hitbox is really weird and you pretty much have to delay everything against him. If I remember right, you can hit him by delaying 5B and 236A but it's a pain in the rear.

The wjA>5B>2C>6C and the wjA>w5C>w236A routes work fine however.

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Oh wow, I actually read that character specifics section daily but have been glancing past that box because I hadn't understood its use in month 1 until I saw it in a match video. It's use isn't labeled there either so the way I read it in week 1, I thought it was some advanced human 5C > j.A loop.

Edited by Grifter

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6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > Forward Dash > 2C > 236A > 2C > 236C > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C

3556 dmg, 25 hg.

Only useful if you run out of wolf meter while pressuring the opponent in the corner and land a 6C confirm afterwards.

Also...

5C > 6D > j.A > 5B > IAD > j.B > j.C

Works On: Amane, Nu-13, Platinum, Valkenhayn, Tsubaki, Arakune, Izayoi,Terumi, Azrael, Bullet, Ragna, Litchi, Relius, Makoto, Taokaka.

Works On But Must Slightly Delay The 5B Before the IAD: Hakumen, Mu-12, Tager.

Works On But Can't Get 5B Follow-Up: Carl, Noel.

Doesn't Work On: Bang, Rachel, Jin.

Haven't Tested On: Kokonoe, Kagura.

If someone could test it on Kokonoe and Kagura for me that'd be great.

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w[5C > 6D > j.A > 5B > IAD > j.B > j.C] works on Kagura and Kokonoe without any kind of special thing to do, worked with the same timing as Nu13.

Edit wait is this midcombo/human ? cause doesn't w[5C>6D>j.A>5B] work on everyone?

Edited by Falco252

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Yes, 5C > 6D > j.A > 5B is universal but the IAD > j.B > j.C afterwards isn't. Sometimes you need to delay the 5B before the IAD as well otherwise you wont be able to get the 5B follow-up.

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Oh okay I read that as "the 5B as follow up to the wjA" because of languages structural differences. (Would have tried but my stick was unaviable and won't be before long so would rather have asked.)

So yeah, does work on Kagura and Kokonoe.

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Nice, thanks for the insight Dreize/Falco.

Also I optimised one of the 6C combos:

6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 5D > w[5C > 236A > 5D] > 2C > 5C > j.D > w[j.A > j.C > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A]

This combo is nice if you want to go for the wj.214A ender because you don't use any wolf command dashes. The previous combo was > w[5C > 236A > 236B > 6D > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A], and although it dealt around the same damage, you're using a wolf command dash.

Edited by Kiba

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No problemo.

Also, I believe that you meant to put 5B > 2C > j.D since 5C > 2C > j.D doesn't work. Edited the OP. I might end up using that combo a bit too, nice.

I'll be creating a recommended combos list either later today or tomorrow. This is going to be a bit hard though because of my own personal biases, might have to make it multilayered or something, but I'd prefer it if it's short & concise.

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