Magaki Report post Posted January 3, 2014 I'll be creating a recommended combos list either later today or tomorrow. This is going to be a bit hard though because of my own personal biases, might have to make it multilayered or something, but I'd prefer it if it's short & concise. A section for optimized combos would help tremendously yeah. Doubt anyone would disagree with your choices though. I think the only subjects that would be debatable would be the combo ender used or the wolf gauge usage. The latter is more about common sense and the former isn't really a problem because we can add another ender version (For example a wjC>djD>djC and a 6C>3C version.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreize Report post Posted January 4, 2014 Added the section. Tried to be as concise as possible but it's really damn hard for me since my brain contains a Valkenhayn combo encyclopedia, so I limited myself to 20 combos. The cap didn't allow me to cover everything I wanted to though. Section is open to critique/revision. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shyn Report post Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Hey, I just noticed you added a list of character specifics to the OP. Good job! Hahaha. I was gonna look back through all the data everyone had gathered and do a list of my own, but now I don't have to! Speaking of character specifics, I noticed a while back that 236B~236B > wj.A > 5B > 236A doesn't work on at least one character... (I think maybe it was Azrael? Too lazy to check atm.) The 236A just whiffs. But I noticed it works if you use 5C instead of 5B. I just always use 5C now. (Also, you can use that route off 5A/2A with 5C.) Edited January 4, 2014 by Shyn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magaki Report post Posted January 4, 2014 Added the section. Tried to be as concise as possible but it's really damn hard for me since my brain contains a Valkenhayn combo encyclopedia, so I limited myself to 20 combos. The cap didn't allow me to cover everything I wanted to though. Section is open to critique/revision. Nice ! I'm surprised you didn't however add any throw combos or 6A ones. Did you leave them on purpose ? The latter is quite useful against certain blockstrings. Especially right after an IB. Speaking of character specifics, I noticed a while back that 236B~236B > wj.A > 5B > 236A doesn't work on at least one character... (I think maybe it was Azrael? Too lazy to check atm.) The 236A just whiffs. But I noticed it works if you use 5C instead of 5B. I just always use 5C now. (Also, you can use that route off 5A/2A with 5C.) Isn't it Amane ? Because yeah, I can't manage to make it work against him at all. Do you mean h5C or w5C ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Added the section. Tried to be as concise as possible but it's really damn hard for me since my brain contains a Valkenhayn combo encyclopedia, so I limited myself to 20 combos. The cap didn't allow me to cover everything I wanted to though. Section is open to critique/revision. 5A/j.A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] - I'm not sure this should be a recommended combo just because of the timing on 2C > 236A. Don't get me wrong I like the combo a lot, but I'd say leave it for now anyway unless you can find a higher priority combo to list. I'm cool with the other combos you have listed. Thanks Dreize. Keep up the good work. Edited January 4, 2014 by Kiba Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shyn Report post Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Isn't it Amane ? Because yeah, I can't manage to make it work against him at all. Do you mean h5C or w5C ? I meant h5C. And yeah Amane is one that it wouldn't work on, heh. But I think there was another person who 5B>236A generally works on, but it doesn't in this case. It was a while back and I just do 5C habitually now. Maybe I'm just crazy. XD EDIT: Just went and checked, and yeah I think Azrael was the one. Might be the case on others, too. You could probably get it to work by just delaying 5B a bit, but I find using 5C easier and better. Edited January 4, 2014 by Shyn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreize Report post Posted January 5, 2014 Nice ! I'm surprised you didn't however add any throw combos or 6A ones. Did you leave them on purpose ? The latter is quite useful against certain blockstrings. Especially right after an IB. Thanks. Yeah, I left them out on purpose. My rule was to leave out OD combos, throw/command throw combos, and Wolf Sweep Loop combos. I initially had a Midscreen to Corner throw combo listed but I felt as though if I had one throw combo I'd have to list one for every part of the screen (plus command throw combos too) so I took it out. As for 6A combos...I just can't. Hey, I just noticed you added a list of character specifics to the OP. Good job! Hahaha. I was gonna look back through all the data everyone had gathered and do a list of my own, but now I don't have to! Hah, no problem dude. Any character specific info that you guys provide is really helpful as well. 5A/j.A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] - I'm not sure this should be a recommended combo just because of the timing on 2C > 236A. Don't get me wrong I like the combo a lot, but I'd say leave it for now anyway unless you can find a higher priority combo to list. I'm cool with the other combos you have listed. Thanks Dreize. Keep up the good work. Thanks dude, I will! Sucks that the timing isn't universal, I love that combo, seems like something that'd be good in the long run too. Simple yet very effective, seriously underrated worldwide. Only good for players that are confident with their execution though. The timing seems to be split into different groups, I'll do a whole character specific write-up on the combo when I get the chance. For now I'll just switch it out with something else though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted January 6, 2014 2C > 5C > tk.214B > 6D > w[j.A (whiff) > land 5B > j.B > 3D > j.A > 5D] > 2C > 6B > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [3706 DMG, 26 HG] Optimised to: 2C > 5C > tk.214B > 6D > w[j.A (whiff) > 5C > 236A > j.C > dj.C > j.236B > 2D > j.D] > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [4164 DMG, 29 HG] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grifter Report post Posted January 6, 2014 The OP says w[6D > j.A > 5D] > 5B > 2C > 236C works on Noel but it missed on a few tries in sets yesterday. Is her timing different? I meant h5C. And yeah Amane is one that it wouldn't work on, heh. But I think there was another person who 5B>236A generally works on, but it doesn't in this case. It was a while back and I just do 5C habitually now. Maybe I'm just crazy. XD EDIT: Just went and checked, and yeah I think Azrael was the one. Might be the case on others, too. You could probably get it to work by just delaying 5B a bit, but I find using 5C easier and better. I've only seen it not work on Amane, played some sets against Azrael yesterday and I'm pretty sure it worked without a hitch. You can delay 5B just right to work on Amane but it feels really tight and sucks when you're trying to push him into the corner and you end up there instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falco252 Report post Posted January 6, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbzuwiPRpGM&feature=youtu.be Hmm, I have no problem with it here, tho I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to hit the 236C cross-down (can you even do anything afterwards either way?), where is your problem specifically? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreize Report post Posted January 6, 2014 Certain characters like Jin, Bullet, Noel, etc have...less than desirable aerial hitboxes. You may experience a bit of trouble now and again but it does indeed work on them. It's usually a height issue, which will occasionally cause the 236C to whiff. (can you even do anything afterwards either way?) Yes, of course. For instance: 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 2C > 236C] > 9D > j.B > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 236A > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [3075 DMG, 22 HG] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grifter Report post Posted January 7, 2014 Tested against Noel. Coming out of the corner, I'm usually mixing up w/w[6D > j.A > 5BC > ...] and 236C misses (haven't missed this on anyone else on the on the list). Omitting one of those hits will make the 236C connect. HOWEVER, 236C hits meaty so 9D can't be buffered early or else 236C misses. Just what I've found, maybe my timing's odd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falco252 Report post Posted January 7, 2014 The w5A/wjA seems to be the problem, bad prorations values I guess because w5B>w5C, w5C*3 or wjB>w5B>w5C all work (other things works too of course like wjC>w5B>w5C). (tried them all midscreen, they probably work in the corner too). I don't have any other success with w5A/wjA either, while it's insanely easy with any other starters I stated before. And sorry Dreize dunno why I didn't think of looking at the actual thread ahah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted January 8, 2014 If you use w[j.A/5A > 5B > 5C] the 236C will whiff. You have to use w[5A/j.A > 5C] where the hit confirm is a little more demanding. More combos: Midscreen wolf starter 236A > 6D > j.D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 5C > tk.214B > IAD j.D] > j.AA > 5D > h[5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [2904 DMG, 20 HG] Corner wolf starter 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > 5C > j.D] > j.A > j.C > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A [3230 DMG, 23 HG] If you want the 6C > 3C ender, you can do 236A > j.C > dj.C > j.236B > 2D > j.D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B for [3029 DMG, 21 HG] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreize Report post Posted January 9, 2014 Kiba, what did you update the combo thread with? The combo count went up and I don't know how to check what's been added, hah. Is there even a way to check? I hope there is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I updated it with the 3 combos in my previous post as well as this midscreen to corner combo which was brought to my attention over twitter: (CO) 5B > 5C > 236C > 6D > w[j.C > j.236B > 2D > j.D] > 2C > 6C > (236A) > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C I'll let you guys know which combos I add from now on. There isn't a way to check unfortunately. Edited January 9, 2014 by Kiba Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreize Report post Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Corner wolf starter 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > 5C > j.D] > j.A > j.C > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A [3230 DMG, 23 HG] Any particular reason as to why you did 2C > 6C before 2C > 6B? Should only be a slight damage difference though. I updated it with the 3 combos in my previous post as well as this midscreen to corner combo which was brought to my attention over twitter: (CO) 5B > 5C > 236C > 6D > w[j.C > j.236B > 2D > j.D] > 2C > 6C > (236A) > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C I'll let you guys know which combos I add from now on. There isn't a way to check unfortunately. That combo is kinda just a weaker/worse version of this combo that's already been listed on the OP. 5C CH > 236C > 6D > w[j.C > j.236B > 1D] > j.D > 2C > 6B > 2C > 6C > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [3895 DMG, 27 HG] The (CO) 5B version is pretty much the same thing: (CO) 5B > 5C > 236C > 6D > w[j.C > j.236B > 1D] > j.D > 2C > 6B > 2C > 6C > (Forward Dash) > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [3873 DMG, 27 HG] This version is better because 6B comes before the 6C (and if you're ever in a position wherein you need 236A for the corner carry you still have the 6B from earlier and don't have to omit it). Plus, dash 5B is better than dash 2C because 5B is faster (thus making the combo less likely to drop depending on spacing). Not to mention the fact that the combo does slightly more damage, although it's probably slightly harder. Sucks that I can't check what's been updated. Ah well, at least I'm up to date now. Midscreen wolf starter 236A > 6D > j.D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 5C > tk.214B > IAD j.D] > j.AA > 5D > h[5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [2904 DMG, 20 HG] Mind is I switch this around to: 236A > 6D > j.D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 5C > tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > sj.B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C [2939 DMG, 21 HG]? 5B > 2C like that off of j.A > j.A > 5D is unfortunately character specific but 5B > 5C isn't. Plus, you can do the sj.B ender for slightly more damage & corner carry too but that isn't really too big of an issue here anyways. And sorry if I sound kinda hyperactive but I am super-hype now that my internet is back & that my new stick arrived on the same day. Woot! Time to go test out 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 2C's character specific aspects and make a list. Also have a few new things that I came up with during my few days of being M.I.A so I'll probably add them when I get the chance. Edited January 10, 2014 by Dreize Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Any particular reason as to why you did 2C > 6C before 2C > 6B? Should only be a slight damage difference though. The timing is a little more leniant with 2C > 6C since you don't really need to worry about height specifics. Using 2C > 6B over 2C > 6B gets you 3247 Damage and 23 Heat gain, but I'm fine with whichever is listed. That combo is kinda just a weaker/worse version of this combo that's already been listed on the OP. 5C CH > 236C > 6D > w[j.C > j.236B > 1D] > j.D > 2C > 6B > 2C > 6C > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [3895 DMG, 27 HG] The (CO) 5B version is pretty much the same thing: (CO) 5B > 5C > 236C > 6D > w[j.A > j.236B > 1D] > j.D > 2C > 6B > 2C > 6B > (Forward Dash) > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B .C [3873 DMG, 27 HG] This version is better because 6B comes before the 6C (and if you're ever in a position wherein you need 236A for the corner carry you still have the 6B from earlier and don't have to omit it). Plus, dash 5B is better than dash 2C because 5B is faster (thus making the combo less likely to drop depending on spacing). Not to mention the fact that the combo does slightly more damage, although it's probably slightly harder. Sucks that I can't check what's been updated. Ah well, at least I'm up to date now. Well it's just to show what option the player has from a 5B crouching confirm. Fair enough it's the same as the 5C CH combo, you could list it like this if you want: (CO)5B > 5C (or 5C CH) > 236C > 6D > w[j.C > j.236B > 1D] > j.D > 2C > 6B > 2C > 6C > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [3873 DMG, 27 HG / 3895 DMG, 27 HG] Figured it'll be a little confusing so I wanted them listed separately. We can go with your combo since it's better for convenience. I noticed you listed 6D > w[j.A > j.236B > 1D] and > 6B > 2C > 6B (which is supposed to be 6D > w[j.C > j.236B > 1D] and 6B > 2C > 6C respectively), but I know what you're saying. Mind is I switch this around to: 236A > 6D > j.D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 5C > tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > sj.B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C [2939 DMG, 21 HG]? 5B > 2C like that off of j.A > j.A > 5D is unfortunately character specific but 5B > 5C isn't. Plus, you can do the sj.B ender for slightly more damage & corner carry too but that isn't really too big of an issue here anyways. And sorry if I sound kinda hyperactive but I am super-hype now that my internet is back & that my new stick arrived on the same day. Woot! Time to go test out 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 2C's character specific aspects and make a list. Also have a few new things that I came up with during my few days of being M.I.A so I'll probably add them when I get the chance. No probs knock yo'self out. Thanks, and don't worry about it. I'd rather people challenge what is there so we can make the most out of our confirms! Edited January 10, 2014 by Kiba Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moufle Report post Posted January 10, 2014 Hi, I'm new with Valk and I just wanna know for this combo, 5C > 6D > j.A > j.C > j.236B > 1D > j.D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > Forward Dash > 5C > sj.B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] on Recommanded Valkenhayn Combos I can't hit with the 2C after w[j.1D > j.D], I'm always too far from the char. It seems that I can't do j.1D > j.D earlier so it is maybe a problem with delay ? But when should I delay ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted January 10, 2014 Hi. I'm not sure why you may be too far away honestly. Sounds odd, but yeah you're not supposed to delay anything you need to input it fairly quickly. It's supposed to look like this. The starters are different but the combo remains the same with the same timing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moufle Report post Posted January 10, 2014 For fuck sake, my bad. I know that I clearly read 1D, but I did 2D all this time wondering what was wrong... Thx Kiba for correcting my silly brain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) It's no problem man. Dreize, for some reason, the image you used to explain overdrive is showing as something else. I've removed it for now. Edit: Thanks for the fix. Edited January 10, 2014 by Kiba Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreize Report post Posted January 10, 2014 I noticed you listed 6D > w[j.A > j.236B > 1D] and > 6B > 2C > 6B (which is supposed to be 6D > w[j.C > j.236B > 1D] and 6B > 2C > 6C respectively), but I know what you're saying. My god, the typos. Hah. Fixed. It's no problem man. Dreize, for some reason, the image you used to explain overdrive is showing as something else. I've removed it for now. Edit: Thanks for the fix. That was really weird. First it was showing itself properly and the next thing it wasn't. First it was showing this. Then it was showing this. (take a look at the URL's, they're the exact same). Also, and I may have mentioned this before, but I question the accuracy of the overdrive frame data on the wiki. Feels kinda off to me. Perhaps it's just me. 5C > 6D > j.A > j.C > j.236B > 1D > j.D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > Forward Dash > 5C > sj.B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] on Recommanded Valkenhayn Combos Glad to see people are using the recommended combos list. Fun fact: I actually prefer the sj.B ender over the j.C ender in this case, which is why I have it listed like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snipermav Report post Posted January 10, 2014 Hi guys, sorry if this is a dumb question but I seem to be having trouble with this transformation: 5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 236A > etc. I'm not sure if the opponent isn't getting high enough in the air after w236A? I'm always late on the h2C part. Any tips or visual indicators to look out for to help with this one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Also, and I may have mentioned this before, but I question the accuracy of the overdrive frame data on the wiki. Feels kinda off to me. Perhaps it's just me. What in particular caught your eye? Hi guys, sorry if this is a dumb question but I seem to be having trouble with this transformation: 5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 236A > etc. I'm not sure if the opponent isn't getting high enough in the air after w236A? I'm always late on the h2C part. Any tips or visual indicators to look out for to help with this one? Hi. If you're late it means you're not performing it fast enough. Be sure to input 5D as soon as possible after w236A and then press 2C immediately. The opponent will always be at the perfect height for a followup 2C to work provided you're inputting it quickly. It should look like this. Edited January 10, 2014 by Kiba Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
