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Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

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Suuya has been moving up in the Valkenhayn rankings.

If he gets to #1...

Oh boy.

By the way, Kiba.

I noticed that on the OP and the wiki it says "j.C and 6C becomes drive/wolf cancellable on hit."

I don't think that they are solely geschwind cancellable on hit, as shown in here with a blocked j.C that was cancelled into geschwind during OD. It's most likely the same with 6C as well.

Oh, and, I saw that wolf mode retained our initial 80% combo rate. That's good.

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By the way, Kiba.

I noticed that on the OP and the wiki it says "j.C and 6C becomes drive/wolf cancellable on hit."

I don't think that they are solely geschwind cancellable on hit, as shown in here with a blocked j.C that was cancelled into geschwind during OD. It's most likely the same with 6C as well.

Oh, and, I saw that wolf mode retained our initial 80% combo rate. That's good.

Yea I getcha thanks. Updated OP and removed frame data from there since it's on the wiki now.

Yeah I meant the fact that the backdash recovers quicker.

Ah right.

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Suuya showed a few notable things in his matches against Miya and Uma no Hone.

First. - You can see here that w[5C] made Jin's DP whiff when spaced properly. This also happened against Makoto's DP in a Valk's match against Ice Storm. This has lead me to the conclusion that you can use w[5C] to kinda low profile most other character's DPs, but that's just an assumption. Would be good if it did though because that's a free 7k combo for us with OD.

Second. - Minor but you see Suuya use a w[j.B] crossup on Jin's wakeup. It can lead into some decent damage but if blocked you can easily resort to standard followup mixup. You can also see it used here after 236B.

Third. - You see here that 6C beats Relius' DD but it looks like there is a specific timing thing there goin' on. There is no confirmation as to whether it'll work during the startup of Valkenhayn's 6C for example. Still good to know though.

Suuya displayed some good play. Fun to watch and I have been thinking of adding him to the notable players, again, lol.

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That w[j.B] cross-up stuff was kinda neat.

Funny that you should mention Valkenhayn's 6C beating out Req Vinum, that distortion drive had actually beaten out my 6C during a casual match earlier today. Needless to say, I was left a bit confused (due to the animation, since I was well above the gears and they somehow teleported and stuck onto me while my 2 feet were inside Relius's hurtbox). 1~10F invincibile + Gear teleport/sticking properties, perhaps? I kid, I kid. Anyways, I'm not quite sure as to how Suuya managed to do that (unless something has been changed in relation to that distortion drive in CP). Just tested it, and at best I was able to trade with it (the FC we receive trades in his favor since the gears have a lot of active frames).

Poor Makoto, we could already low-profile her pitifully pathetic DP with 2B in human mode; now it seems as though we can use 5C in wolf mode. Oh well. As a person who dislikes prolific DP mash, it's nice to see something like this. I can only hope that it will be applicable in similar DP related situations. I'm just glad that we finally have a wolf normal with a sizable horizontal range.

Free 7k combo, from a w[5C] starter? Or perhaps a w[5C] CH? But even then, I'm still a bit confused. The only 7k+ combo that I currently have listed is from a 6B FC > CT starter. Plus, that combo uses the OD sturm wolf ender (for additional damage) and the wolf sweep loop.

Or maybe you were talking about using the w[5C] to make Jin's DP whiff and then transforming into human and punishing with a 6B FC? But even then, Jin's DP only has 42 recovery frames (plus, he can charge the 2nd attack). w[5C] (21 recovery frames) + 5D (7 frames transformation) + 6B (22 frames start-up) = 50 frames in total.

I'm a bit behind in terms of recent CP Valkenhayn news (and I'm way behind in CP Valkenhayn matches, as I would have watched all of the ones in the video thread by now). So maybe I missed something relevant/new? I guess I shouldn't keep my fingers crossed, hah.

Ah well.

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Poor Makoto, we could already low-profile her pitifully pathetic DP with 2B in human mode; now it seems as though we can use 5C in wolf mode. Oh well. As a person who dislikes prolific DP mash, it's nice to see something like this. I can only hope that it will be applicable in similar DP related situations. I'm just glad that we finally have a wolf normal with a sizable horizontal range.

Free 7k combo, from a w[5C] starter? Or perhaps a w[5C] CH? But even then, I'm still a bit confused. The only 7k+ combo that I currently have listed is from a 6B FC > CT starter. Plus, that combo uses the OD sturm wolf ender (for additional damage) and the wolf sweep loop.

Or maybe you were talking about using the w[5C] to make Jin's DP whiff and then transforming into human and punishing with a 6B FC? But even then, Jin's DP only has 42 recovery frames (plus, he can charge the 2nd attack). w[5C] (21 recovery frames) + 5D (7 frames transformation) + 6B (22 frames start-up) = 50 frames in total.

Nah not from a w[5C] starter, but 7k from a 6B FC starter using OD, so it's not necessarily 'free' in that regard. I shouldn't have used it loosely like that. Though of course you can't do that combo against Jin's D DP because you'll most likely try to avoid the 2nd hit by going in the air and in that case you'll use j.C, or land and use something with faster startup like 2C. The alternative is to block the 2nd hit if Jin doesn't fully charge it, and in that situation 236C is your only reliable punish due to distance. So yea, 6B isn't very reliable here.

I don't believe you've missed anything spectacular so don't worry.

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Oh well. As a person who dislikes prolific DP mash

If I'm yelling "IMMA MASH MAH INFERINO DIVIDAH" at the top of my lungs and you still refuse to block, that's completely your fault.

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Masashi's latest gameplay was really good, and it provides some good wolf oki/setups which can be incorporated into CP play.

Now with the Yawata Ace casuals, w[5C] is a perfect normal to use to bait DPs, which is why w[5C > 2C > 5C] is so effective. With proper spacing evidence shows it works against Jin's, Makoto's and Mu's DP, and I would be pretty bold to say that it works on all characters. You can also see how it doesn't work when using w[5C] up close since the DP beats Uguisu flat out.

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The brackets for the Arc Revo cup are up, so I'll take this opportunity to list the matchups with our dawgs.

Kin Tager vs Naoya (TK)

Shiro vs the next player to qualify

Zekuso vs Mame (TK)

Noze (HZ) vs Shuu (Masashi)

Nata Kishi (HK) vs Uma No Hone

Chou Sensei Shinja isuke vs Tsujikawa (TK)

To view the brackets, look here.

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I'm quite confident in Zekuso, and I hope he manages to put on a good show. Personally I'm more uneasy about Uma no Hone...

A shame Hima isn't in, he would've done really well.

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Well, from a "it could be worse" point of view. I'd take Noze over Mitsurugi, or Tsujikawa over Matoi.

But yeah, I don't think that the our brackets are detrimental by any stretch of the means.

Naoya (is this Nao?) has it relatively easy with Tager, so that's good.

I'm a bit worried about Zekuso because of lol CP Taokaka. Then again, Masashi has to deal with a competent Hazama player so that could pose to be a problem.

Hima not being in here is displeasing since he is such a joy to watch, but at least the other two members of the big three are in (Masashi & Zekuso).

When it comes to Uma, I'm almost entirely impartial. If he wins, great. If he doesn't, oh well.

I have high hopes for Masashi and Zekuso, though.

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I dunno about Tsujikawa over Matoi lol.

Naoya isn't Nao, Naoya is the Taokaka player. The Valkenhayn's player's name is actually 'Kin Tager' lol. I probably should have been specific there. Unless Masashi performs like he did in the Amipara Technoland games, there may be a problem.

I know what you mean about Uma no Hone haha!

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How I managed to mix up the two players is beyond me. Especially since you put the "(TK)" notation right beside Naoya's name.

Then again, I've never heard of this "Kin Tager" fellow. Odd name.

From what I've seen, Masashi's play seems to really fluctuate (kinda like mine). Sometimes he plays amazingly, and occasionally he plays in an extremely questionable fashion.

I'll still be rooting for him, though. Same with Zekuso, I have really high hopes for Zekuso.

I'm kinda hyped for this.

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Kin Tager rings a bell but I can't quite put my tail on it and I do agree with you on Masashi. Guess he's having a few off days and of course I wouldn't blame him. He WAS my favourite EX Valkenhayn anyway, so it's no surprise I have high hopes for the guy too.

On a side note, Masashi managed to do air command grab into 2C, which isn't anything unusual but it's alright to note I suppose. It worked because air Himmel Wolf has more untechable time than the ground version. Thought he couldn't combo into 2C at all from both command grabs.

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but I can't quite put my tail on it

Hah.

On a side note, Masashi managed to do air command grab into 2C

Saw that. Still good to know.

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Yup.

You wont see combo's such as that too often during practical play since they are really wolf meter intensive. Also, he could have done something such as h[tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 5B > j.A > j.C > dj.D > h[j.C] for slightly more damage + better oki.

Also, Kiba. Thank you for adding the meter gain usage to the Valkenhayn combo thread. It would have taken me a mere few seconds to do, but for some odd reason it completely slipped my mind.

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Single eliminations tournaments are so random.

Here are the Valkenhayn standings thus far, If I'm not mistaken:

Kin Tager - Beat Naoya (TK), beat Eruo (JI), lost to RYO (RE).

Shiro - Beat Ryuusei (JI), lost to Galilieo (LI).

Zekuso - Beat Mame (TK), beat Noze (HZ), beat Konan (TS), lost to Abarenji (MU).

Shuu/Masashi - lost to Noze (HZ). Why.

Uma no Hone - Beat Nata Kishi (HK), beat Tetsuwa (JI), lost to N-O (RA).

Chou Sensei Shinja isuke - lost to Tsujikawa (TK).

Zekuso is in top 8, and he is the only Valkenhayn that is currently alive right now. I hope that he does well.

Thanks to Kurushii for the re-stream, and thanks for the neat & organized bracket list Zeth (and sorry about mixing up Zekuso and Chou Sensei, it's quite late and my mind just slipped).

I'll update this post tomorrow.

Go Zekuso~

Edit: Zekuso is out, damn.

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Honestly I'm really surprised. I'm proud of Zekuso but it's a shame Masashi didn't get past first round. Really surprised Uma No Hone advanced so far.

Thanks for the updates. Zekuso lost to Aberenja and that match can be viewed on Kurushii's channel on twitch if anyone is interested.

It's here: http://www.twitch.tv/kurushii/b/405384670 at 4:23:30

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I really can't blame Masashi. Single elimination tournaments are so random and big names such as Mitsurugi and Fenrich also didn't it make it past first.

Besides, Noze isn't exactly a pushover. Still, though, I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't slightly disappointed.

I was surprised about Uma as well, but when I found out that he had to go against N-O I knew that he was done.

I am quite happy with Zekuso's performance. He took out Konan (I figured that this would be bitter-sweet for you, Kiba), Noze, and Mame before losing to whoever that Mu player is. Those are some solid players.

I still have yet to watch a full match due to stream ADHD-like issues last night. So I'll do that in a few and point out anything peculiar that I notice.

Edit: Oh boy, finding all of these matches and properly identifying all the Valkenhayn players is going to be a pain. Guess I should just wait until ASW uploads the matches, too many audio/video issues in the stream.

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I know how you feel about it, especially since Masashi is your favourite. I'm not disappointed with the fact that Konan lost to Zekuso, but I am rather interested to see how the match went.

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