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Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

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I've been looking at some of my match footage and it has made me realize something. When I play, I'm sort of programmed to just go freaking crazy and rush people down 100% of the time. I feel that this might actually be harming my success rate. What are some good situations that call for Valk to sort of float around waiting to punish whiffed shit? I just look at certain matchups like Hazama and Bullet and realize how much I have died because I was pressing buttons.

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Every situation your not at advan or on the offensive is a good time to move around. I try to base my play around movement and mixup since dmg isn't necessarily always an option for Valk.

I could write more but you really gotta figure it out from mu exp mostly, and how your oppo is playing you.

Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk

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Valk's changes in CP2:

Wolf Gauge – Anytime Valkenhayn transforms into a human, the time before the Wolf Gauge recovers has been increased

Wolf Jump A – Combo starter time has been decreased

Wolf Jump B – Combo starter time has been decreased

Ground Kunig Wolf – Decreased the startup time

Sturm Wulf – Is now a catch attack instead of a full animation super. Increased speed of the animation portion

Source: Xie on SRK.

Honestly, the nerfs are really quite vague.

If wjA is indeed the worst that could happen and be a VS starter, we will never be able to get back the wolf gauge we used hindering a lot Valk's mixup.

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Think I'll wait to see how things play out before expressing myself fully, but right now I'm a bit concerned about the w[j.A] nerf.

A few of these changes seem extremely arbitrary (sturm change, ground konig buff) and they didn't even address the core issues with the character (his mix-up, for instance).

Wolf Gauge – Anytime Valkenhayn transforms into a human, the time before the Wolf Gauge recovers has been increased

Hmm, okay.

Wolf Jump A – Combo starter time has been decreased

I take issue with this nerf. I can only assume that our most common starter has now gone from a S starter to a VS starter?

I don't even...what?

Wolf Jump B – Combo starter time has been decreased

Okay, I guess.

Ground Kunig Wolf – Decreased the startup time

Buff? Not a very good one and sort of random, but alright I suppose.

Sturm Wulf – Is now a catch attack instead of a full animation super. Increased speed of the animation portion

I'm assuming that they increased the speed of the animation so that he gains less wolf meter back. Once again, kinda random and not even worth mentioning because of how unimportant it is.

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It just means that if Sturm whiff, only the first attack will come out. Not the rest. Supposedly it's a buff but only for people who Sturm randomly.

As for wjA being VS, that's indeed a huge nerf. Would mean we would only be able to properly mixup with wjC but then again, the move is mostly viable as a meaty.

Anyway, it's not the only move that got nerfed this way. Let's just hope that they will actually change the combo system OR that wjA becomes a special combo starter like Hazama's command grab.

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I'm not so sure bout these changes. Some of them seem like pretty blatant nerfs and the rest of them seem quite inconsequential. It's as though they looked at the character and just thought "Lets just make him slightly worse"

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If you ask me they pretty much dropped the ball on these changes.

Wolf Gauge – Anytime Valkenhayn transforms into a human, the time before the Wolf Gauge recovers has been increased

Only change that makes any sense.

Wolf Jump A – Combo starter time has been decreased

Wolf Jump B – Combo starter time has been decreased

Need more info on these changes. Wouldn't have gone this route either way.

Ground Kunig Wolf – Decreased the startup time

Sturm Wulf – Is now a catch attack instead of a full animation super. Increased speed of the animation portion

Arbitrary changes that make no sense whatsoever.

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Yeah, pretty much mAc.

Not a fan, but there's still nothing I can do about it so there's no point in complaining too much. I'll probably just get over it in a day or 2 after I vent a little bit.

Gotta move on.

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Double post because this is something completely unrelated and I'll forget to post it again if I don't do it now:

Kiba found a new tech quite a while ago particularly good.

Midscreen, when you have to do the usual 5B>5C>air combo, instead of ending it with jBBC or hjBABBC, end it with hjA>jB>jC.

Exactly when you land afterwards, press 3C.

If the opponent tried to delay tech, quick tech or roll (backward or forward), he will get OTG'ed by the 3C (if the opponent rolls away, you pressed 3C way too late). If you get a hitconfirm with 3C, press 236A right away for more corner carry.

If you don't get a hitconfirm (opponent emergency tech), press 1DC for a wolf loop. It will allow you to meaty the opponent on the first frames and you will be exactly in w5C range allowing you to avoid most DPs except Litchi's, Tsubaki's and Ragna's.

Obviously, it got the same weakness w5C has which is backdash beats it. If your opponent is backdash happy, just do 3C>6D>wjA instead.

Summary:

Stuff>5B>5C>hjABC ender.

3C while landing. 3C>236A on hit. 3C>1DC if it whiffs.

It's an excellent tech which works midscreen so I would strongly suggest you to learn it.

Sticky this pls

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I was messing around with this, and I do like it, but I think the w5C isn't meaty? It seems like there just isn't close to enough time for that. So, it "loses" to upback as well as backdash. (Although if you wanna be cool, you can do 6D>j.236C)

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Nah. Opponent get hit standing if they try to jump out of pressure. Did you try to do the 3C as fast as possible ?

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I thought so... I'll try it some more I guess. :/

EDIT: Yeah, after like 2 tries same conclusion as before (it's super obvious it won't work). Like, I must be doing some other part of it wrong, caus there's no way the w5c would catch them.

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In case anyone is wondering why I haven't said anything regarding that setup, it's because the 1DC is just an extension. I haven't tested that with it since all I try to use is 3C > 236A~6D.

I have been really concerned about which corner enders are better against certain characters:

Against Azrael, you'll want to put yourself in (or near) w5C range so that growler whiffs and you can punish him. If you opt for brjA on his wakeup and he backdashes, you can followup with w5C. So 6C > Forward dash (you'll be in the corner if you're close enough), or j.b > j.8B > j.C seems good. Not saying you can't use wolf cannon ender but you'll have to manually determine the spacing afterwards.

Against Mu-12 and Ragna, spaced w5C can make their DPs whiff. Against Ragna you can also use air combo > wj.236B > 7D > j.D > j.C > jump > j.A(whiff) > j.B(or j.C I think) as a safe jump setup, but it won't work against Mu because her DP has guardpoint and you'll just get hit.

Against Tsubaki and Litchi, I recommend using an air combo into > wj.C > (wj.236A) > wj.236B > 7D > j.D > j.C > jump > j.A(whiff) > j.B (I think j.C can work here too) whenever you can, because spaced w5C won't work against them (you'll have to be slightly out of w5C range to make Tsubaki's clash/whiff).

It doesn't seem to matter what ender you use against Hakumen really :( It's a complete guessing game, but remember his 2D is 1f so you're better off using highs when he doesn't have meter for yukikaze. I believe this is the same case for Hotaru.

This is just some food for thought. I'm guessing this isn't completely accurate and/or I may be missing things here, but I thought I'd try to help.

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Hakumen's main worry while waking up is whether or not you will use the command grab because Yukikaze gets beat by throws.

I just use standard enders and put myself in w5C range. If he rolls away, he ends up just before me so I can mixup/throw him. If he emergency techs/delay, I run at point blank range to get in w236C's range.

You have to make Hakumen keep guessing between whether or not you will grab. If you're too far for a throw, he will know that your only choice is to meaty or bait Yukikaze. This situation is obviously less advantageous than being in throw range.

Don't abuse the command grabs though or he might try to tk Hotaru your nuts.

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I thought so... I'll try it some more I guess. :/

EDIT: Yeah, after like 2 tries same conclusion as before (it's super obvious it won't work). Like, I must be doing some other part of it wrong, caus there's no way the w5c would catch them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPZSuHuSTGQ So, what am I doing wrong? (I recorded this back when I made that post but took forever to get around to uploading it, haha.)

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After grinding it out non-stop, I noticed something silly I do but forgot to mention:

I have the habit of waiting a bit after doing 5B>5C>Air combo to decide which ender shall I use based on height.

In other words, You have to delay slightly your jump cancel (or hjABC itself. You just have to delay something.) to make it meaty. I noticed it when I decided to stop doing it as usual and try to speed it up.

Another important point. It seems that even if you delay it, you don't hit on the "first frame". So if you do it right it means you will hit the opponent during the ~4th frame. So it's much less reliable than it looks like.

(I first tested it with a friend holding up back and after trying it ten times in a row, I called it a day. Tested it much more today and indeed, if you don't do it right at the exact frames (thank god buffering exist), opponent can jump out of it.)

Another detail I mentionned on skype:

I'm certain everyone know this but backdashing is the best way to deal with w5C. Problem is that while you only have to watch out for Valk's and Relius' backdash in the corner, a lot of characters can just backdash and escape pressure quite easily this way.

Hope that helped even a little bit.

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Added OS to strategy guide:

Spaced 2B > 5B > 3B+C (Against Kokonoe)

If Kokonoe teleports on her wakeup, you'll throw her back into the corner (so she can't burst and corner you), and if she doesn't teleport, you'll get the normal 2B > 5B > 3C blockstring. Alternatively you can use 6B+C instead of 3B+C to get 6C for overhead mixup. The spaced 2B is there in case she opts for the fireball super, and you'll be able to punish her because it'll whiff. Remember you lose wolf oki with this setup.

Credits to Kyosuke / (@vcjonakim)

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Been thinking, I get so many damn w[j.A] AH confirms, wonder what I'm going to do post-patch. Might have to change up my main approach methods.

Anyways, when they initially announced the grounded beast cannons start-up buff I was completely uninterested. I figured that it was most likely going to be a standard 3-4 frame buff (and it was even less at 2 frames). But, with the w[5C > 236A] confirmation it might actually be a useful/good buff.

Perhaps things like...

Corner:

5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 6C > 2C > 236A > 2C > 236C/tk.214B > 2C > sj.B > dj.B > j.C] [3801/3792 dmg, 27 hg]

5A > 5B > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B] [2941 dmg, 21 hg]

Will be possible post-patch. I do have a few concerns, but we'll see what happens I guess.

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Yea 4d has like 10f of invul and 4d only travels far if you input it while in human form. Check the wiki out for frame data also.

Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk

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