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Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

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woah what? Can you please make a video of that OS avoiding every DP in the game? Secondly how do you safe jump with a wolf normal to begin with?

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Ohh yeah, I did read it too fast and didn't see the part about sacrificing jC for the 50/50.
As for safe jumping with wolf normal, it's the same as the brjA>backdash OS really except that you had more time in CP1.0 to hitconfirm. 4 less frames in 1.1 to be exact. Obviously, considering that it's not based on holding 1 right afterwards but a backdash, it should be called an OS rather than a safe jump.

And which OS are you talking about ? jB(whiff)>jC to hit exactly before you land ? Do you really need a video to understand how it would work ? I'm confused. If you talked about safe jumps before, you already know what it means right ? Obviously, it will work against any DP or super but not against Tager's 720C, Bullet's 720C and Hakumen and Jin's Yukikaze.

Anyway, could you please elaborate ? I honestly have troubles understanding what you mean here.

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Dunno if we talked about it here but basically, it's a wolf mixup you can do after a wjB midscreen. You basically do wjB ender>jump cancel which will result in the opponent getting knocked down and you still high in the air. From there, you can use 1D/2D/3D to either do cross-up overhead, cross-up low, cross-up command grab or fake cross-up overhead, fake cross-up low or fake cross-up command grab.

"If you do an overhead, you can do 44 with the right timing to OS any reversal."

Basically with wjA air-to-air, it's easier to set. jump>wjA>wjB>jump cancel 6-way mixup.

Or you can just safe jump jC/empty jump 2B. Keep in mind though that you can punish rolls with the 6-way. Not the safe jump midscreen.

 

 

I don't believe you can use that OS against any reversal, but I've never tested this specific setup. Im only curious about being able to OS ALL reversals with the overhead option of this mixup.

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Yeah. It's only possible to do it with jC because if you do jC(whiff)>1B, you have to do it ASAP so that the opponent won't be able to react to it.

Anyway, you can easily check it out by yourself by using it against the fastest reversal in the game, Hazama's 236236B which is 6+1f startup. If it works on Jayoku, it will work against any other reversal (that can be safe jumped of course).

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Here's anyway one more 50/50 for you guys that you can add in your game and that's something that you can actually pull off after a 6B on block or hit in the corner.After a 6B, you can do a cross-up/fake cross-up that is just impossible for the opponent to guess right.Basically, you do: 6B>9D>jD>(small delay)jB in the corner. Based on when you pressed jD, you will either cross-up or not. Make sure to add a small delay though in order to be able to combo after it unless you don't mind doing 2A afterwards and lowering the damage your combo will do. I recommend doing jB>2B>5B in order to hitconfirm or crouch confirm easier.

Is this dependent on your opponent respecting you and not pressing buttons? Or does the frame advantage after 6B force them to guess no matter what?

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Yeah. The opponent must respect your pressure because they can mash you out. If you have the opponent used to respect your 6B because of tight blockstring like 6B>2A>2B, you can do it once in a while in order to vary your pressure a bit.

Its efficiency however is questionable because it implies that you're crossing up in the corner which means you're the one with the corner on your back now. If you have meter to spare though, you can do the following combo:

[50%] jB>5B > 5C > 236B > RC > 5C > j.D > w[j.AAA > j.C > j.236B > 6D > j.B > j.A > 5D > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C [2939 DMG

Now, whether it is worth doing or not is debatable. If you do cross-up, you will need to use meter in order to get the opponent back in the corner and the rewards are a bit less than 3k. In fact, going for jC>RC>jC mixup is a much better idea unless you're against someone who loves to do 41414141 once you make him block. In that case, cross-ups would be more efficient.
Anyway, if you plan to try to improve your game and vary your pressure, this is worth learning. Otherwise, if you just want to stick with stuff that is highly efficient, you shouldn't bother learning it.

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Right, I went through the wolf setup into 6B(2) again. This is the updated version

 

...w[8j.B > 2D > j.B] > 5D > Very Slight Delay 6B The 6B pattern. This works because of the well spaced 6B and its rather amazing recovery. 6B(1) is supposed to whiff. Its all about 6B(2). Example combo:

 

6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 5D > w[5C > 236A > 5D] > 5B > 2C > sj.8D > w[j.B > 2D > j.B] > 5D > Very Slight Delay 6B

 

An extremely meaty 6B(2) can link into 2C on hit, without a fatal. You should have an even bigger frame advantage then usual on block but watch out for delayed techs. If you use > 6B > 5B > 2B into the setup you'll have to use j.9D > w[j.B > 2D > j.B] as the 2nd wj.B will whiff with j.8D. I've tested this setup against every character and so it doesn't work against the following reversal DDs:

 

Jin: Ice Arrow / Yukikaze

Terumi: Soutenjin and Messenga

Amane: Seijyuu Rensoukyaku

Relius: Req Vinum

Hazama: Houtenjin

Nu-13 - Calamity Sword

Taokaka - Hexa Edge

Litchi / Tsubaki - DP

Bang - Ashura

Kagura - Ryuuha Gokuenjin

Tager - Magna Tech Wheel

Makoto - Particle Flare (The 1st attack will hit but the 2nd will whiff)

Valkenhayn - Sturm Wolf

Hakumen - Yukizaze

Noel - Fenrir

Arakune - Venusaur super

Izayoi - Justice Phoriser

 

So it isn't perfect, but it helps to setup:

-wj.C meaty if you use wj.B > 3D >wj.B

-6B > OD > mixup

 

 

Also another safe jump setup you can use is whatever combo into 3C > 236A > jump > j.A (whiff) > j.B. It doesn't work against:

 

Terumi - Counter Super

Bullet / Tager - Command Grab super

Jin / Hakumen - Yukikaze

 

Advantages of this:

-You get a gapless mixup (j.B > 5B > 3C/IOH j.C) if they don't IB j.B

-Minimises the amount of reversals you have to deal with

-Catches rolls and you can followup with 5B > 2C

 

(Included in strategy guide)

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How to wolfbrake j.A with pad?

 

Default controls except with taunt swapped with RC

 

I can't do it. I either get wolf brake into valk landing or dash j.A

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How to wolfbrake j.A with pad?

 

Default controls except with taunt swapped with RC

 

I can't do it. I either get wolf brake into valk landing or dash j.A

 

Bind BC to R1 and AB to L1. Piano 1DCA. On default layout that would look like 1X > R1 > L1. It's super easy and helps with other stuff like 236B rekka > br.jA

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There's a demonstration video in the first post of the strategy guide..

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or try macros BC on R1, And do 1X>R1>square----> 1D(BC)A
thats how i do it, and you just have to piano D-A

 

 

Also, i was wondering. Will it still work in BBCPE? i mean BC is now wolf throw... i bet Razen can be cancelled into wolf grab, and it will take priority over wolf brake.

is so, im screwed xD

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so i learned that valk has this combo in the corner:

 

5B>3C>236A>2A>2C>j.delay A>j.C>2A>2C>j.delay A>j.C>2A>2C>2147B>6C>j.B>dj.B>j.C

 

nice long combo for wolf meter recovery.

 

edit:

you can do j.b instead of j.A

 

The combo recovers ~60% wolf meter.

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how do you link w.5C>w.6D>w.j.A to 5D>5B?

 

I can never get wj.A>5D>5B to work.

 

You can sort of piano it.  There is a timing to it, just comes down to muscle memory.  Just make sure you hit 5D immediately when you connect with wJa

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Wait wj.A can gatling into 5D?

 

I've never been able to get that working. I've always had to do an extra w5B>wj.B>j.3D>wj.A>landing 5D>5B

 

 

okay i'll be sure to properly learn this today.

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Wait wj.A can gatling into 5D?

 

I've never been able to get that working. I've always had to do an extra w5B>wj.B>j.3D>wj.A>landing 5D>5B

 

 

okay i'll be sure to properly learn this today.

 

No, it acts more as a link. Think of it as J.D and it would appear to kinda make sense LOL.  Too soon (before wJa connects) and nothing comes out.  Too late and 5B will whiff, which is why I recommend pianoing.  Even works on pad.

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is there any reason to not to the wolf iad loop midscreen?

(w5C>w6D~A>w5B>iad wj.A>wj.B>w5B>iad wj.A>wj.B>5B>j.AAA>j.C>dj.d~C)

 

i keep defaulting to this instead of wj.A>5D~B>5C

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Wolf IAD loop consists of sacrificing wolf gauge for corner carry.

In 1.1, aiming for combos that use the least amount of wolf gauge possible to guarantee you will have enough afterwards to mix the opponent up is very important. Much more than corner carry or damage actually because a Valkenhayn unable to keep his vortex going isn't really scary at all.

The most important part about the ...>w5C>wjA>5D~B route is that it allows you on N starters to do 5B>5C>tkj214B>IAD jD>wjA(delay)A>5D~2C>etc which leads to great corner carry, better damage than wolf IAD and better wolf gauge management.

So nah, wolf IAD loops were useful in CSE and a nice option in CP1.0 but in 1.1, the wolf gauge nerf doesn't make it worth it at all.
 

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Yeah I would say off N starters that loop is never worth it. It's kind of personal preference/situational off S starters.

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Ive been kind of out of the loop as far as 2.0 Valks development has gone , but I've noticed something that's bothersome. Did his ability to conserve wolf meter in combos get axed? I see guys like Uma No Hone and Suya riding 20% wolf meter at almost all times, and it looks really shitty.

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2.0's wolf gauge management is better than in 1.1 despite having it works the same due to the new routes.

Rather, it's because both Uma no Hone and Suya like to go ham with wolf gauge in neutral and they like flashy mixups too instead of going for much simpler options or simply using more human mixups (IOH jC, safe jump jB/empty 2B/airdash jB>jC, etc).

If you compare Suya's matches in 1.1 and 2.0, you will notice that he's doing way better than in 1.1

Though, I didn't watch the last matches but I doubt both drastically changed their gamestyle meanwhile.

Too bad Zekuso dropped him for Azrael to be honest. He kinda was the best when it comes to gauge management IMO so it would have allowed us to see really how 2.0 Valk would look like when being played by someone always optimizing his wolf game.

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2.0's wolf gauge management is better than in 1.1 despite having it works the same due to the new routes.

Rather, it's because both Uma no Hone and Suya like to go ham with wolf gauge in neutral and they like flashy mixups too instead of going for much simpler options or simply using more human mixups (IOH jC, safe jump jB/empty 2B/airdash jB>jC, etc).

If you compare Suya's matches in 1.1 and 2.0, you will notice that he's doing way better than in 1.1

Though, I didn't watch the last matches but I doubt both drastically changed their gamestyle meanwhile.

Too bad Zekuso dropped him for Azrael to be honest. He kinda was the best when it comes to gauge management IMO so it would have allowed us to see really how 2.0 Valk would look like when being played by someone always optimizing his wolf game.

 

I figured it might have just been the players, Uma and Suya are nuts, always opting for damage over meter. It's a shame, since I'm the type of player to opt for meter management. I guess we just have to figure it out for ourselves.

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I saw an interesting combo the other day:

 

5B>5C>236B~236B>6D>wolfbrake j.A>5D~B>236A>ect

 

But it doesn't seem to work on most of the cast. Is there a list of characters that it works on?

 

It was done against me while i was playing nu.

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