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Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

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That also reminds me, due to the new wolf break system I'm finding it hard to do wIAD > 5D > wolf break over people now or even just for standard jump-in AA baits. It was so much easier in Extend considering all you had to do was do D > 5CC, the new 5D3/2D3C is such a pain to do, I honestly find this to be the biggest hit to my wolf mobility.

This. This right here. Yup. The brake is the ONLY issue with my wolf mobility right now, but it's a very important issue.

It pains me to keep saying it but my wolf mobility has been severely weakened. Right now I'm honestly just running around, IAD'ing all over the place, and overusing beast cannons. Because of this I'm getting hit by anti-airs a lot more, I get hit out of beast cannons regularly, and my general mobility is off which consequentially means that my neutral is off.

I never even attempt to use the brake anymore out of fear of messing up and losing all my wolf meter mid-match (whereas before I used to use it ALL of the time without any issues). Once I have it down perfectly I'll start re-implementing it into my play. Also, why are people still calling it the "break?" It's the "brake" guys, the "brake."

Aha.

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It pains me to keep saying it but my wolf mobility has been severely weakened. Right now I'm honestly just running around, IAD'ing all over the place, and overusing beast cannons. Because of this I'm getting hit by anti-airs a lot more, I get hit out of beast cannons regularly, and my general mobility is off which consequentially means that my neutral is off.

I'm definitely over-relying on beast cannons, wIAD and 7D, I'm also finding myself getting AA'd far too often. The only time I'm using brake is for cancelling out of 4/7D or of course IOH.

On the plus side I've been getting more comfortable at using cannons to hit people out of air stuff (especially Amane, as long as you're higher up than him in the air), I didn't really use wolf cannons that often for neutral in Extend.

Also, why are people still calling it the "break?" It's the "brake" guys, the "brake."

Ugh yeah dunno why I'm spelling it as "break", can I blame it on brain lag?

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Well I feel like being an outsider here because it's the other way around for me. I don't really have any particular troubles with the wolf loop at all. I do it with 3D4C to be more specific. However, I have HUGE troubles doing it with 2D4C or 1D4C. Which probably explains why I have so much troubles with 236B>brJA. I just can't manage to find the right timing to pull it off. You got any tips or visual cue Kaiser ?

As for the wolf loop, I found out that it's easier for me to simply hold 4C rather than tap it.

I will take a wild guess and say that you basically have to press the 4C after the frame when you do brJA. See when you do 4D and press 4C late ? Valk will stop shortly after the dash and keep a bit of momentum.

That's exactly the same thing with the wolf loop.

I first checked when you could brJA with 3D after a w5C and made sure that I was pressing 4C after the brJA but before he lands.

Might sound a bit confusing but I hope that it helps.

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Well I feel like being an outsider here because it's the other way around for me. I don't really have any particular troubles with the wolf loop at all. I do it with 3D4C to be more specific. However, I have HUGE troubles doing it with 2D4C or 1D4C. Which probably explains why I have so much troubles with 236B>brJA. I just can't manage to find the right timing to pull it off. You got any tips or visual cue Kaiser ?

I'll start out by how I generally do brJA's, as mentioned before I find 1DCA easiest for raw brJAs I also find it easiest for wolf normals, although I delay the 1D slightly so it isn't buffered, that way it has a similar timing as raw 1DCA (5B/5C > brJA will still be gapless). Now for special cancels and human cancels I use 3D towards the end of the move and then hold 4 and delay CA slightly. So ultimately it would look like this 3D4-tiny delay-CA.

For 236B~236B I press 3D at the same time as the 2nd 236B hits. As for 4CA I press it as I see Valk spinning in the air to change into wolf form. Keep in mind I don't use actual visual queues, I just went into training to look so I apologize if it's not an exact queue but hopefully it will help you out some.

Also thanks for the tips on the loop, I'll mess around with it later to see if it helps!

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-Updated Combo thread with more combos.

-Added the Near Fullscreen and Back to Corner combos that Dreize compiled to Strategy Guide.

-Added Magaki's okizeme explanation to the Strategy Guide (will fill up with more information later)

-Added character specific information regarding Bang and Makoto to the Strategy Guide.

-Updated FAQS in Strategy Guide.

I just need to give myself time to figure out the effectiveness of the multiple wolf enders now.

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For 236B~236B I press 3D at the same time as the 2nd 236B hits. As for 4CA I press it as I see Valk spinning in the air to change into wolf form. Keep in mind I don't use actual visual queues, I just went into training to look so I apologize if it's not an exact queue but hopefully it will help you out some.

Actually, I can pull it off now thanks to your advice about inputting the 3D right when the second 236B hits. Before, I simply wolf canceled right after inputting the second 236B which seems to be the reason why I couldn't get the timing down. Thanks man !

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Damn Kiba, the drops. So many drops. The Valkenhayn mirrors were easier because at least then we were both dropping, hah.

I honestly find it hard to believe that the drops were solely because of the delay, guess I really need to grind things out more. Hmm.

GG's amigo. I was wondering what time it was in the UK, figured it would be really late.

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It was 4am when I stopped playing you lol. I'm going to fully blame the delay for the combo drops because they're not something I regularly drop, especially the w[j.236B > 1D > j.D] > 2C route. I would guess the same would apply to you too.

That's actually why I mainly used Tsubaki. GGs anyway.

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Glad to hear it helped Magaki, I still need to get more comfortable with the combo enough to actually use it in matches (same with brJA in pressure even though I can do it pretty consistently, but I still freeze up in matches for some reason). Honestly I'm still dropping a lot of simple combos online too when I can do them pretty consistently in training.

Has anyone been using h5B > IAD > 5D > j.A/B crossover in pressure? I'm actually liking it now that you can combo off of it due to w5C, and I seem to hit it when I use it (not abusing it), but then again it could just be due to netplay delay making it harder for people to react. Anyone here that does matches offline regularly want to see how effective it is with no net lag?

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Practicing combos for hours upon hours and then heading onto netplay to drop them always sucks. The w[1D > j.D] was coming out way too slow for some reason, which kept making the 2C whiff, wasn't happy about that. I actually use a visual cue for the timing on those combos.

I might be the only Valkenhayn player who's actually using Hima combos as well.

Also, those Tsubaki DP's. A few of those were my fault though, kept auto-piloting into habits that work on people who don't know the match-up. Not many people DP right after my 5C/6B.

Speaking of which, things get really interesting when both players know the match-up. We actually had a pretty good back-and-forth with the Valkenhayn mirrors. I'd win one, then you'd win once, then I'd win once, etc and so forth. And all of our matches were quite close (third round, both players at low health, that sort of thing).

Though the amount of drops was really horrendous. But I still had fun. You shouldn't have stayed up till 4 though, gotta get that good nights rest. Kinda hypocritical for me of all people to say that though. Hah.

Has anyone been using h5B > IAD > 5D > j.A/B crossover in pressure?

Yes.

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I might be the only Valkenhayn player who's actually using Hima combos as well.

Also, those Tsubaki DP's. A few of those were my fault though, kept auto-piloting into habits that work on people who don't know the match-up. Not many people DP right after my 5C/6B.

Speaking of which, things get really interesting when both players know the match-up. We actually had a pretty good back-and-forth with the Valkenhayn mirrors. I'd win one, then you'd win once, then I'd win once, etc and so forth. And all of our matches were quite close (third round, both players at low health, that sort of thing).

Though the amount of drops was really horrendous. But I still had fun. You shouldn't have stayed up till 4 though, gotta get that good nights rest. Kinda hypocritical for me of all people to say that though. Hah.

Yeah I'm not too fond of the Hima enders although I used to be.

With the DPs, I was honestly saying to myself, 'Don't DP, he's gonna try to bait it this time', but you didn't lol (It was usually during the times where I opted to try and poke you out with 5A). There was one time you managed to bait my DP after you used 6B. I also tried to DP you occasionally when you use air w[66D] > j.C, but I thought it'll be safer to simply AA you instead.

I don't think I'll use Valk in any 0 bar connection now lol because I always fail. I shouldn't have stayed up till 4 but admittedly I was having fun. I barely get to play those from US/Canada.

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Glad to hear it helped Magaki, I still need to get more comfortable with the combo enough to actually use it in matches (same with brJA in pressure even though I can do it pretty consistently, but I still freeze up in matches for some reason). Honestly I'm still dropping a lot of simple combos online too when I can do them pretty consistently in training.

Same here. I have huge troubles doing w5C>6D>wjA>5D>5B online when I do it mindlessly offline. I end up using instead stuff like 6D>wjA>wjC combos who are easier to use with the lag even if they use more wolf gauge. The lag improved tremendously thanks to the new update however and I have yet to decide if I should keep playing this way online or simply try to land the usual combos.

Has anyone been using h5B > IAD > 5D > j.A/B crossover in pressure? I'm actually liking it now that you can combo off of it due to w5C, and I seem to hit it when I use it (not abusing it), but then again it could just be due to netplay delay making it harder for people to react. Anyone here that does matches offline regularly want to see how effective it is with no net lag?

I only use as a crossover in pressure w5B>IAD>2D/1D>wjA. It's really fast, allow you to decide if you want to cross-up/fakecross-up and allowed me to avoid a lot of DPs that were mashed. Only real downside IMO is the fact that you use some wolf gauge.

I'll still give it a try however next time I play with some friends.

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Not even with the people local to you?

I understand though. I'm not sure how you'd cope with Rachel online, but with valk it just feels like some things don't work.

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Dear Santa, please tell Arcsys to stop making human to wolf and wolf to human transitions so stupidly hard. I'd love it if I could actually play this character at some point in time.

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sam, it was cross-continent netplay.

I don't think I'll use Valk in any 0 bar connection now lol because I always fail. I shouldn't have stayed up till 4 but admittedly I was having fun. I barely get to play those from US/Canada.

I may be willing to try again...someday. Glad you had fun though because I did as well, Valkenhayn mirrors are not something that I get to do often either.

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Something interesting I've noted from trying to learn the w5C loop is that you can use the same technique to get quick w5C off of various moves. Pretty much any move that can be cancelled to Geschwind Wolf can use this technique of 3D-4C with the right timing. This may have some interesting applications, one possibility is to combo into w5C off of 236B-236B in the corner during OD, which might lead to more damaging combo routes. Something worth investigating.

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I'll play around with that. Thanks.

Also I added w[j.C > Wolf brake > j.B] to the blockstrings section in the strategy guide. It's actually good to use.

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Something interesting I've noted from trying to learn the w5C loop is that you can use the same technique to get quick w5C off of various moves. Pretty much any move that can be cancelled to Geschwind Wolf can use this technique of 3D-4C with the right timing. This may have some interesting applications, one possibility is to combo into w5C off of 236B-236B in the corner during OD, which might lead to more damaging combo routes. Something worth investigating.

Your idea caught my interest and while I'm still training in order to get those 14 loops down, I did run some test.

2C>6B>OD>2C>236B>236B>1D4C>w5C does 3100 damage by itself for 22 meter gain.

I'm not that knowledgeable about OD combos but just the way it starts looks like it's gonna hurt a lot. I'll probably go back to that later once I'm certain I mastered the wolf loop. I'm still heavily suggesting anyone knowledgeable about OD to give it a try considering that 2C>6B is really easy to hitconfirm and makes it quite practical.

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Close to me is... fine I guess. Really close. Which excludes most of US by my standards. Also yes dealing with Rachel online is terrible (as in playing her).

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Update:

-Added beginner combo section in the combo thread.

-Added F.A.Q to the combo thread. I will be expanding this.

-We now have a character specific section in the combo thread.

Side Note For Kiba: The combos in the beginner combo section will not be added to thread's total combo count.

Also, not sure whether or not the combos in the beginner combo section are appropriate. Revisions may be made, after which I may need to ask a favor from you Kiba in order to make things easier for the beginners.

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Nice ! And the beginner combos can all be expanded afterwards for more advanced versions so it's a nice choice IMO.

Here's also a character specific for wjC

Basically, you can't do it raw on those characters. You have to put them in blockstun first. I don't know however if it should be in the combo thread or the guide.

Here's the character specific list for 6C>3C>(236B) ender where 236B whiffs for people who were curious.

Whiffs on: Azrael, Amane, Noel, Kagura and Tager (This one is weird. Looks like you don't touch Tager with 3C if you delay it as usual so you have to delay it further which means he's lower than other characters when 3C connects and explains why 236B whiffs.)

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