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Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

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2C > 6B > 2C > 6C will not work, and that combo doesn't work in EX.

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God damn! That sucks like Hell! Christ! That's really, really disappointing to hear. I was planning on taking CP competitively.

I'm planning on sticking with Carl/Valk no matter what, but I was (before I found out the bad Ps3 CP news) planning on playing Amane and Izayoi as well.

Indeed it does. Do you own a ps3? If not, you may be out of luck unless ArcSysWorks has a sudden change of heart. It's a bitter situation.

Amane and Izayoi eh? I figured that you would be a Bullet person. Especially since you main Jill in Marvel and they're both on that HunchBackâ„¢ tech.

Collapsed: Screens:

2a5k4jn.jpg

29uxhde.jpg

Did you guys notice the buff to valkenhyne's backdash? Looks pretty good.

Yeah, Shyn mentioned it a little while back. Good stuff.

i was more so talking about the ender lol my bad

Are you referring to the j.B > dj.B > j.C ender? If so, it is still there.

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Indeed it does. Do you own a ps3? If not, you may be out of luck unless ArcSysWorks has a sudden change of heart. It's a bitter situation.

Amane and Izayoi eh? I figured that you would be a Bullet person. Especially since you main Jill in Marvel and they're both on that HunchBackâ„¢ tech.

Collapsed: Screens:

2a5k4jn.jpg

29uxhde.jpg

Yeah, Shyn mentioned it a little while back. Good stuff.

Are you referring to the j.B > dj.B > j.C ender? If so, it is still there.

im talking about the human 2A>2C relaunch after J.c

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haha, at First I was REALLY into Bullet, but then I realized she's pretty ass.

I remember telling a buddy of mine, when Bullet was just released, "Oh shit, Jill 2.0".

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haha, at First I was REALLY into Bullet, but then I realized she's pretty ass.

I remember telling a buddy of mine, when Bullet was just released, "Oh shit, Jill 2.0".

Dat hunchback though. Everyone used to think Jill sucked too, but you still mained her. Hah.

So is w5B>jD>j5B>etc. no longer the thing in CP?

Well, you've got to remember that w[5B] no longer launches grounded opponents, so you'll be seeing a lot less of it. But it's still most definitely there. Nowadays people opt for 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] or even 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 5B > j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C > dj.D > h[j.C] esque stuff.

The w[j.A > j.A > j.A] > dj.D > j.C ender has also been slightly modified. You'll now mainly be seeing w[j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C] > dj.D > j.C.

im talking about the human 2A>2C relaunch after J.c

Technically speaking it's still there, but it's apparently become rather obsolete/implausible. We've seen it during actual CP footage though, here's the best example: (CO) [50%] j.C > RC > j.C > 5C > 236C > 2D > w[236B > j.236A > j.236B > 7D] > j.D > j.C > 2A > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [3383 DMG, ??? HG].

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Well, you've got to remember that w[5B] no longer launches grounded opponents, so you'll be seeing a lot less of it. But it's still most definitely there. Nowadays people opt for 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] or even 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 5B > j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C > dj.D > h[j.C] esque stuff.

The w[j.A > j.A > j.A] > dj.D > j.C ender has also been slightly modified. You'll now mainly be seeing w[j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C] > dj.D > j.C.

I just hope it's more intuitive than w5B>jD>j5B>etc. seems to be. I can do it fine if it's just that simple part in training mode, but I just don't seem to have the control to get that fraction of a second delay it takes to get Valk to transform instead of doing w.j5B when trying to do it in a full combo. It kind of kills me that I have to give up the extra dmg and a cool combo ender because they decided to make it so strict.

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Well yeah, it's easier without the full combo. That's why I always recommend that people learn it without the combo first.

If you can't do the w[5B] > j.D > j.B > dj.B > j.C ender one of your alternatives is the w[j.A > j.A > j.A] > dj.D > j.C ender which I personally prefer anyways.

The 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] stuff in CP is generally easier then what we currently do. But, the 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 5B > j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C > dj.D > h[j.C] stuff is probably a bit harder.

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It's been kinda quiet here hasn't it? Well I'll inform you guys about something though I'm not sure how useful it will be to you guys. I was going to make a video about this but I ran into 'technical difficulties'. Ah well.

What I want to talk about is wolf pressure, baiting and punishing. I'm sure you all know that you can use wolf pressure to bait stuff, but I'm not sure everyone knows about the application of it. Allow me to explain. By simply using w5A > w5B > 5CD, you can actually block a lot of DPs and reversals the opponent may be mashing. For example, if you used w5A > w5B > 5CD and the Tsubaki mashes 623A, you can block the DP in time and then punish accordingly (It's kinda sketchy to punish with the optimal punish here being 2C due to varying distance and 623A having low recovery). Valk transforms back into human form on frame 7 so this simple method will work against any characters DP/reversal that has more than 7f startup. That is most characters except Ragna's ID, Hazama's jayoku & Arakune's reversal because those have 7f startup. There is a way to beat Hazama's Jayoku by modifying this method. You can do this by doing w5A > w5B > Wolf brake (5CC) > j.A, and if performed correctly, you should see the startup of the j.A during Jayoku's superflash, AND THEN you can use 4C to dodge the super and punish with 2C/6B. This method can work against Tao, but you'd want to opt for 7C because if you use 4C you'll just charge right back into the attack. You may not even be able to punish it because you may be out of range when you go past her. Arakune's will just flat out beat you without IB, and even if you manage to 4C/7C away, you will need to cancel the dash with C otherwise you'll be diving back into the attack. Lastly, no this addition will still not work against Ragna's ID. Lol.

There are ways for your opponent to get around this however, and even though it could be considered slightly minor it will greatly affect the momentum of the match. The first option will be for your opponent to IB w5B. If they IB, any DP/reversal with a startup of about 10f (need to re check this) or lower will catch you dashing in. You will not be able to block in time and you can't even use the wolf brake bait. The alternative method would be for your opponent to mash 5A or something like Jin's 623A that has some kind of range. If they mash 5A they will win, but if they don't IB and you attempt to go in for more pressure you'll either trade or get a CH. On normal block they need to try to react with 5A otherwise they'll lose (reacting is more unrealistic).

Also don't try this just by doing w5A > w5A for instance. w5A has less blockstun so it's easier to mash out of your stuff. You have to use w5B. I'll add this to the strategy guide. Again not sure how useful this is to you guys, but I hope it does help even in the slightest. Basically, your opponent has wider options if they IB your shit.

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Yeah it's really good against Jin's DPs especially because they have slow startup, though I know that information was posted way long ago.

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Yeah, it's probably going to be pretty quiet around here till CP hits. Which is to be expected I guess. Neat little tidbit Kiba, but sadly people usually tend to mash me out of wolf mix-up as opposed to using a DP. Still good to take note of, though.

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I get dp'd more than anything really haha. I mainly lose to mashing when it comes to online play.

Thanks Dreize. I'll modify it a little come CP.

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Mighty late of me but I think I've realised just how strong the tk.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B (> 6D > j.B) is. The oki from that is extremely good; you can transition into wolf mixup immediately, unlike the air enders which wouldn't work as effectively if the opponent techs immediately. There were times I wondered why they don't opt for more damage rather than this ender when they hit with certain normals, but I think I understand why that's the preferred route now, and I'd certainly recommend it. I used to be real indecisive about it but now I've finally come to the conclusion.

You can do this ender in EX if you wanted to. I'll give an example:

w[j.A > 5B > 236B > 236B > 7C > j.D] > j.C > 2A > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 236A > 3C > 236B - The 236B may whiff but it doesn't matter because you can cancel it into wolf and then initiate the pressure from there.

Using the ground enders give you more comfortable options with wolf pressure than the air enders. Not only that but they regenerate the wolf gauge by a fair amount so it's alright to do the enders over and over without worrying about wolf meter depletion. I wouldn't recommend ending with 236B > 236B though, because the opponent can tech in the air and get out. You have less pressure options against this.

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I was messing around with the 3C > 236B ender a while back in Extend, had issues with performing it on certain characters. I imagine that it's going to be better in CP though due to the schwarz jagd start-up buff.

Anywho, since we're talking about enders might as well list/discuss the ones that I use.

My play primarily consists of 7 enders (this list isn't in any particular order):

1. j.B > dj.B > j.C - Standard damage ender. Mostly used for damage as opposed to oki. Easily the easiest ender to execute, every Valkenhayn uses it, without a doubt my least favorite ender.

2. w[j.A > j.A > j.A] > dj.A > j.C > falling j.C - Primarily done off of wolf combos. The falling j.C is nice. My ender of choice when it comes to midscreen wolf combos.

3. j.D > w[j.B > j.A > 5B > j.A > j.A > j.A > j.B > 3C > j.B] > dj.D > falling j.C - The Joker ender. Nice little safe-jump set-up. Adds on a good bit of damage as well. Wolf meter intensive and it's usage heavily depends on the proration near the end of your combo. Works better on people who tech.

4. 2A > 5B > 2C > sj.D (in the 7 direction) > w[j.A] > dj.D (in the 9 direction) > j.C > falling j.C - A personal favorite of mine (probably my most used ender by far). Looks interesting aesthetically speaking, and the oki is good. There is really no excuse for not using this ender (especially off of certain confirms wherein doing the standard j.B > dj.B > j.C will bluebeat, such as off of a cornered 5B confirm). Perhaps it's a bit executionally heavy for some.

5. 236A > 5B > 2C or 2A > 5B > 2C (depends on the combo) into j.D > w[j.B] - Very basic human into wolf ender. Mostly used when I have a lot of wolf meter to spare on my opponents wake-up (and when I want to mix them up via wolf mode or be in wolf mode on their wake-up for whatever reason).

6. 236A > delay 5B > slight delay 2C > sj.C (in the 7 direction) > fall slightly than forward airdash > j.D > w[j.A > j.A] - Another personal favorite of mine. A bit character specific because of certain aerial hitboxes (for instance, I've never been able to do it on Makoto). Catches tech rolls and allows me to perform two w[j.A's] without wasting meter on a command dash. Only works off of certain starters due to height requirements, works better on people who tech.

7. w[iAD > j.A > j.B > 5B] x N - Amazing corner carry for such little wolf gauge usage. Usually only able to do about 2-3 reps due to proration discrepancies.

I do have more in my repertoire, but these are the 7 that I tend to use most often. Some much more than others.

The ender of choice depends almost entirely on the scenario.

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I was messing around with the 3C > 236B ender a while back in Extend, had issues with performing it on certain characters. I imagine that it's going to be better in CP though due to the schwarz jagd start-up buff.

Yeah I believe there's a character specific requirement to it. Also it's less effective in CSE because they're too low to the ground. I'm more eager for CP than I thought.

4. 2A > 5B > 2C > sj.D (in the 7 direction) > w[j.A] > dj.D (in the 9 direction) > j.C > falling j.C - A personal favorite of mine (probably my most used ender by far). Looks interesting aesthetically speaking, and the oki is good. There is really no excuse for not using this ender (especially off of certain confirms wherein doing the standard j.B > dj.B > j.C will bluebeat, such as off of a cornered 5B confirm). Perhaps it's a bit executionally heavy for some.

See this is the ender I need to use more. I don't input 7 during the wj.A and I use 9 instead. I'll work on it.

Also I have something to say about the video thread as I've made a mistake. Shuu and Masashi are not the same player, they're two different people in different regions (This explains why I was really 50/50 about Masashi). I've corrected it and added Shuu to notable players because he's better than Masashi. I'll remove Kin Tager only because he barely shows up and there's no consistency. I'll replace him with Yuitaba.

Edit: Done

Apparently Hima last used his nesica card a couple of days ago but whether he's really active is unknown.

Edit: Guess we've found the answer. Hima is busy and is more on Dragon Quest. Source: https://twitter.com/dora_bang/status/383288679953084416

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These name changes are horrendous. Shuu and Shou are so damn similar. Not to mention the fact that they use the same color palette. It's almost like they got together and planned this.

I like Yuitaba/Mr.Unity for notable over Shiro and Suya. Kin Tager was kinda iffy anyways, we had only seen a few matches of his.

Hima come back, we need our Valkenhayn god.

Looking at those questions, Dora also thinks that Litchi is Valkenhayn's worst match-up.

Yeah, no kidding. Been thinking the same thing for months now.

I've seen too many Valkenhayn's fall at the hands of Litchi players (not that it's necessarily indicative of the match-up).

But my eyes, they can't take it.

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These name changes are horrendous. Shuu and Shou are so damn similar. Not to mention the fact that they use the same color palette. It's almost like they got together and planned this.

I like Yuitaba/Mr.Unity for notable over Shiro and Suya. Kin Tager was kinda iffy anyways, we had only seen a few matches of his.

Hima come back, we need our Valkenhayn god.

Looking at those questions, Dora also thinks that Litchi is Valkenhayn's worst match-up.

Yeah, no kidding. Been thinking the same thing for months now.

I've seen too many Valkenhayn's fall at the hands of Litchi players (not that it's necessarily indicative of the match-up).

But my eyes, they can't take it.

Masashi used the black and red palette whilst Shuu uses the Slayer palette which Masashi used to use in EX That's why I thought Masashi was just interchanging between the two colours. Again apologies for that and it was Jourdal who corrected me over twitter.

Yeah Kin Tager has only had a few matches so I questioned myself as to why he was on the list. Ryuu is also quite good but again he doesn't have many matches, less than Kin Tager. Shiro is good, but he does a lot of weird things. Suya is solid but I wish he would work on his oki a little more. We have a lot of good Valks but once you understand him much more it's pretty easy to point out which ones stand out the most. This explains why I had Suya and Nao on the notable player list in the beginning. Luckily I leveled up lol. IF I added another Valk it would most likely be Souji, but I'm not sure what position he has with Valk as in, I'm not sure if he'll be sticking with him or he's he's just using him here and there.

Litchi seems to the only matchup Valk seems to struggle real hard on. If I had to mention any other matchup, it would probably be Hakumen and maybe Tao? Everyone else as Dora said, is food for Valk.

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I thought that he was interchanging colors this entire time as well. Just checked over all of Masashi's matches (now that you've fixed things), the only one wherein he uses the Slayer color palette is at Arc Revo vs Noze. Does this mean that it wasn't actually Masashi playing?

Just took a look at Jourdal's twitter. What is with Jourdal's avatar and twitter name? His twitter feed seems to be all about Valkenhayn as well. What sort of troll tactic is this.

Have the wounds from Arc Revo healed this quickly? Assimilate into the master-race, Jourdal. You know you want to. Become one of us, I know you read these posts (I don't).

Anywho, yeah I agree Kiba. Once you start to level-up more you're able to see the little intricacies that are key in making certain Valkenhayn players stand out.

Let's wait a bit on Souji, see how things turn out. He's new to us, but looks promising.

I wouldn't say that everyone else is "food". That seems a bit too extreme.

But yeah, Litchi, Ragna (maybe not as much in CP), Hakumen, Tao, etc come to mind. Litchi is by far the worst though, Hakumen and Tao are relatively okay.

A lot of match-ups seem relatively even though (Hazama, Carl, etc).

I'm curious to see how Valkenhayn fares against Kagura.

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the only one wherein he uses the Slayer color palette is at Arc Revo vs Noze. Does this mean that it wasn't actually Masashi playing?

I forgot about that. Sorry, that's Shuu playing.

I think the Hazama matchup is more in our favour. I'm interested to see how Valk deals with Kagura too, but I believe Kokonoe is going to be the most troublesome. Her midscreen game seems like it's really gonna make it difficult for us to move around effectively.

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