Lich Report post Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Information:Hazama as always has a simple BnB that he will string into off of pretty much any hit. That is where things get a bit tricky, knowing how to get into max damage off any hit is sometimes awkward with Hazama, but essential to his play. If a fellow Hazama has discovered a new hit-confirm, or knows a better version of an old one, please discuss it here, and I'll add them into the first post.Please refrain from idle chit-chat, this thread is strictly for Hazama combo theory discussion/information. [table=width: 700, align: center]General Notations UsedGuide Specific Notations Used[table=width: 350, class: grid, align: center]jJumpsjSuper JumpadAir DashiadInstant Air DashjcJump CancelsjcSuper Jump CancelCHCounter HitFCFatal Counter[ ]Hold Input(N)Attack must deal N amount of hits.[???] xNRepeat ??? N amount of times.ODOverdrive (A+B+C+D)RCRapid Cancel (A+B+C)CTCrush Trigger (6A+B)DMDamageHGHeat Gain % [/table][table=width: 350, class: grid, align: center]>A Gatling or cancel.xxA link.()A conditional requirement; generally for spacing.~A follow-up to another move; Hazama chain cancels, and stance cancels. [/table] [/table] Mid-screen: Normal Starters5B > 3C > 214D~B xx dash 5A > 5C > j.C x 4 > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x5 > j.214B (DM: 2533, HG: 15)5B > 3C > 214D~B xx (dash) 5A > 5C > j.C x 4 > dash 5C > j.C x 4 > 5C > j.C x 4 > 5B > 5C > sj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 3435, HG: 20)2A > 5B > 3C > OD Lv1 xx dash 5D > 214D~66B xx dash 5C > j.C x 4 > 5C > j.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 3162, HG: 19)2A > 5B > 3C > OD Lv1 xx dash 6D > 214D~66B xx dash 5C > j.C x 4 > 5C > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 3281, HG: ~20)5B > 3C > OD Lv1 xx dash 5D > 214D~66B xx dash 5C > j.C x 5 > dash 5B > 5C > j.C x 5 > 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 4444, HG: ??)5B > 3C > OD Lv1 xx dash 6D > CT xx dash 5C > 4D > 214D~66B xx dash 5C > j.C x 5 > dash 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 5099, HG: -25+12 Net = -13)2A > 5B > 236236B xx dash 214D~66B xx 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 3818, HG: -50+14 Net = -36)6A > 236236B xx dash 214D~66C xx 6C xx dash 5C > 2C > 4D > 214D~66B xx 623D (DM: 4437, HG: -50+17 Net = -33)6A > 236236B xx dash 214D~66B xx dash 5C > j.C x 5 > 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 4140, HG: -50+11 Net = -39)5B > 3C > 236236B xx dash 214D~66B xx dash 5C > j.C x 5 > dash 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 5334, HG: -50+14 Net = -36)5C > 236236B xx OD Lv2 2 214D~66B xx dash 5C(1) > 2C > 6D~A > 4D~A > j.7D~A > 623D xx 632146C (Damage: 6992, Heat Gain: -100+33 Net = -67) Special Starters214D~66C xx dash 6C xx dash 5C > 2C > 4D~D > j.C x 4 > 5C > j.C x 5 > dash 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 4671, HG: 33)214D~66C xx dash 6C xx dash 5C > 2C > 4D > 214D~66B xx dash 5C > j.C x 5 > dash 5B > 5C > j.C x 5 > 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 5017, HG: 36)236C xx 5C > 3C > 214D~B xx 5A > 5C > j.C x 4 > dash 5C > j.C x 4 > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 2046, HG: 35) Throw Starters6B+C > OD Lv2 xx (jump forward) j.6D~D > 5C > j.C x 5 > dash 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 3538, HG: ??) Distortion Drive Starters- Near-Corner: Normal Starters- Special Starters- Throw Starters [*]- Distortion Drive Starters [*]- Corner: Normal Starters [*](Hazama in the corner) 5C > 236236B xx OD Lv3 xx CT xx dash 5C > 6C xx dash 5C > 5D~A > 6D~A > 4D~A > j.7D~A > 623D xx dash 5C > 236236B xx backdash 4D > 623D (DM: 8267 HG: -75+37-50+4 Net = -89) Special Starters [*]- Throw Starters [*]- Distortion Drive Starters Special thanks for AMB bakery for the actual combos! [*]214D~632146D > RC (after the last kick) > 214D~66C xx dash 6C xx dash 5C > 2C > sj.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B (DM: 3130, HG: -99) Edited April 3, 2013 by Lich Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henjin Report post Posted November 3, 2013 Not sure if im doin this right (Mid-screen) ch;2C > 4D~D> jCx5 (delay 5th hit) >3C >6246C. Dm 3.4k. Heat needed 50. Helpful note: you can use any other move that leads to 4D~D but to successfully hit 3C, your opponent must be above your upper half when using jCx5. *mid-screen 5C> Houtenjen> dash> 214D~66~B> 623D(wall hit)> 3C> 6246C. Dm: 6k heat needed 100. Tip: this combo works better as a tool to get your opponent closer to the coner from mid-screen. I have a few more. But ill try and test them out for more info. Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk now Free Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Putin Report post Posted November 3, 2013 Back to corner: (CH) 2C > Jakou > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > (max delay) Jakatsu Gasshou crossunder > 66 5C > sj.C5 > 5C > 2C > sj.C2 > dj.C5 > Hirentotsu 5093 dmg, 36 meter gain. I don't think i gets any more optimal than this without meter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LukeR Report post Posted November 6, 2013 Can someone elaborate on the 3C > 214D~B xx dash 5A timings? Do I need to do the 214D~B (or 66B) asap or should I delay it some? This is what I'm having the absolute most trouble with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoSales Report post Posted November 6, 2013 First off, you need to do a dash in between the 214D and the B follow up, so you are close enough to follow up. You need to do the 214D~66B asap after 3C. Depending on the distance when you land it, you may need to do a dash 5A, which takes a bit of time to get used to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LukeR Report post Posted November 6, 2013 Any tips on reliably getting 214D~66B as soon as possible? I can't just mash it out as fast as I want because of the hitstop of the 3C Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoSales Report post Posted November 6, 2013 For me, I'll do 3C > (input 214D while the 3C animation is still going), then input/mash out 66 when he starts to go into his stance position to get the dash and press B right after. I still don't get it 100% of the time. It's just one of those things you need to try over and over again, until you get it out a good amount of the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrlaltwtf Report post Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) Just found this: 5C Houtenjin 66 6A 5C 6C 5C 2C jCx5 5C 2C 4D.D jCx5 j214B [DM: 5996] HG +29 Net -21 Which led to this naturally: 5B 3C Houtenjin 66 6A 5C 6C 5C 2C jCx5 5C 2C sjCx5 j214B [DM: 5599] HG +27 Net -23 Seems silly to spam jC loops instead of this. -- 5B In the Corner 5B 3C Jabaki 66.5C 6C 66.5C 2C sjCx5 5C 2C 4D.A 66.2D.D jB jCx2 djCx5 j214B [DM: 3621] HG+26 In all these combos, the sjCx5 in the middle of them has to come really late. I don't mean just the delay in the jCx5 I mean the very first hit comes out about 1/3 into the super jump, not right away. Edited November 7, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrlaltwtf Report post Posted November 11, 2013 I uploaded my combo vid below. Optimal continuation from Houtenjin seems to be j.Zaneiga > 6A > 5C > 6C > stuff From the Gameplay thread post I made: DM: 5955 5B>3C>Houtenjin (heavily delayed)>J.Zaneiga>6A>66.5C>6C>66.5C>2C>4D.A>tk j7D~delay~D>jCx2>jCx5>j214B DM: 6296 5C>3C>Houtenjin (heavily delayed)>J.Zaneiga>6A>66.5C>6C>66.5C>2C>4D.A>tk j7D~delay~D>jCx2>jCx5>j214B DM: 5997 (easier) 5B>5C>Houtenjin>j.Zaneiga*>6A>66.5C>6C>66.5C>2C>4D.A>tk j7D~delay~D>jCx2>jCx5>j214B DM: 6063 5B>Houtenjin>j.Zaneiga*>6A>66.5C>6C>66.5C>2C>sjCx5>5C>2C>sjCx5>j214B DM: 6300 (easier) 5C>Houtenjin>j.Zaneiga*>6A>66.5C>6C>66.5C>2C>4D.A> tk j7D delay D >jCx2>djCx5>j214B DM: 6407 5C>Houtenjin>j.Zaneiga*>6A>66.5C>6C>66.5C>2C>sjCx5>5C>2C>sjCx5>j214B DM: 6837 (extremely unstable) 5C>Houtenjin>j.Zaneiga**>CT>66.5C>6C>66.5C>2C>4D.A>tk j7D.D>jCx2>djCx5>j214B *This is execution intensive and is done like this: 214D > delay > 66.C, it's difficult to time at first. You must do Jasetsu as soon as possible. On his JP voiceset vs Ragna, the timing for this is right after he says the E in HoutEnjin! You are hitting them with Zaneiga are nearly the last possible moment. Fortunately, J.Zaneiga launches them way higher so it's still high enough for 6A afterwards. Regular Zaneiga would fail at this however. **This one must be super meaty. New meterless midscreen routes: DM: 2914 - HG +20 5A > 5C > 3C > J.Gashou > 66.5A > 5C >jCx5 > 66.5C > 2C > 4D~delay~D > jCx1 > djCx5 > j214B DM: 3851 - HG +27 5B > 5C > 3C > J.Gashou > 66.5A > 5C >jCx5 > 66.5C > 6C > 66.5C > 2C > 4D.A > tk j7D~delay~D >jCx2 > djCx5 May be possible to get another hit on that jCx1 on the 5A starter, but the Hiren keeps whiffing for me. However, due to the new untech-calculation system in BBCP it may be possible if you input everything as fast as possible. Every single microdash is required in order for everything to work. --- This may be the end of jC loops. In optimal routes you simply use it once as part of the combo (which hardly constitutes a loop in my book) ---- I've uploaded my CP Combo Primer, I hope you find some things you haven't seen before: Yes I know this is a double post but it's highly relevant and useful to the thread so I beg your pardon mods. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jameslame Report post Posted November 13, 2013 Any tips on connecting the microdash 5A after 214D~B? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bace Report post Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) midscreen 5c > Houtenjin > 66 > 214D~66B > 623D > J6D~D > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > JC2 > dj JC5 > j214B 6507dm A little bit away from midscreen with them going towards the corner you can do 5C > Houtenjin > 66 > 214D~66B > 623D > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D~A > 66 2D~D > jC5 > j214B 6810dm Edited November 13, 2013 by bace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrlaltwtf Report post Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) midscreen 5c > Houtenjin > 66 > 214D~66B > 623D > J6D~D > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > JC2 > dj JC5 > j214B 6507dm A little bit away from midscreen with them going towards the corner you can do 5C > Houtenjin > 66 > 214D~66B > 623D > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D~A > 66 2D~D > jC5 > j214B 6810dm Nice, the old midscreen crossunder routes are still with us. I bet you could do this off of Zaneiga as well, though you'd probably have to be a bit closer to the corner than Gashou. I'll test it when I get back. I have a feeling Houtenjin will be most optimal when your own back is to the wall > zaneiga > stuff > jakou > etc. Haven't found the god route yet though. Edited November 14, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrlaltwtf Report post Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) Zaneiga or Gashou? Why not Both? - Midscreen DM: 6731 5C > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > 66.2D* > J.Gashou** > 623D > 66.5C > 2C > jCx2 > jCx5 > j214B *This microdash is practically non-existent. Do not let him dash forward very far at all. The Zaneiga before it should be meaty but it's not super necessary. I highly recommend you input the 2D as 66.3D It becomes a lot easier if you do it this way. **Allow the Jakatsu to go completely forward Significantly Easier (recommended) DM: 6716 5C > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > 66.5C > 4D > J.Gashou > 623D > 66.5C > 2C > jCx2 > sjCx5 > j214B Protip for the 66.5C: Just pretend you're doing 66.5C > 6C. It's nearly the same timing. Edited November 14, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrlaltwtf Report post Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) FC Jakou Meterless: DM 4670 FC Jakou > 7~j6D~D > 66~6A > 66~5C > 6C > 66~5C > 2C > 4D~D > jCx5 > 66~5C > 2C > 2D~D > jB > jCx2 > jCx5 > j214B 25: DM 5134 FC Jakou > 7~j6D~D > 66~CT > 66~5C > 6C > 66~5C > 2C > 4D~D > jCx5 > 66~5C > 2C > 2D~D > jCx1 > jCx5 > j214B 50: DM 5872 FC Jakou > 66~Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > 6A > 66~5C > 6C > 66~5C > 2C > 4D~A > 7~j8D~D > jCx1 > jCx5 > j214B For the non-meterless versions, it's possible to do jCx2, even do a jB beforehand, but it causes them to recover almost instantly in midair from Hiren which is a very very very bad idea. Meterless Midscreen 100% OD DM: 5159 5B > 5C > 3C > ODC > 66~5D~A > 4D~A > 66~2D > J.Gashou > Jakou > 66~3C > Jabaki > 66~5C > 2C > jCx2 >djCx5 > j214B DM: 5359 5C > 3C > ODC > 66~5D~A > 4D~A > 66~2D > J.Gashou > Jakou > 66~3C > Jabaki > 66~5C > 2C > jCx2 >djCx5 > j214B DM: 5641 Slightly Closer 5C > 3C > ODC > 66~5D~A > 4D~A > 66~2D > J.Gashou > Jakou > 66~2C > jCx5 > 5C > 2C > sjCx5 > j214B I'm positive there's a more optimal version, but I'm still working on it. Make sure to input the chains as quickly as possible. It still works if you lose OD before the last chain, but it will lose you ~500 damage if you let it drop. This is cuz it can cause some of the hits of Gashou to whiff if you let them go up too high. Edited November 17, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Sey Report post Posted November 17, 2013 Meterless midscreen 100% OD DMG: 5364 5B > 5C > 3C > ODc > d.5C > j7D~D > 5C > 2D xx 214D~66B > 623D > 5C > 2C > 4D~D > jC5 > j214B ~5700 off 5C > 3C and ending with jB > jC2 > djC5 5C > j7D~D 5C -> let the chain fling you right under the opponent, do 5C > j7D~D asap look up noze bbcp combo tutorial or something on youtube, it's one of the most recent vids Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrlaltwtf Report post Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) Meterless midscreen 100% OD DMG: 5364 5B > 5C > 3C > ODc > d.5C > j7D~D > 5C > 2D xx 214D~66B > 623D > 5C > 2C > 4D~D > jC5 > j214B ~5700 off 5C > 3C and ending with jB > jC2 > djC5 5C > j7D~D 5C -> let the chain fling you right under the opponent, do 5C > j7D~D asap look up noze bbcp combo tutorial or something on youtube, it's one of the most recent vids Nice find. I feel like we're getting really close to optimal. If only there was a way to include 6A... Here's my tweaked versions: DM: 5531 5B > 5C > 3C > ODC > 66~5C > 6D~A > 66~5C > 2D > J.Gashou > Jakou > 66~5C > 2C > 4D~D > jCx2 > jCx5 > j214B DM: 5811 5C > 3C > ODC > 66~5C > 7~j4D~D >5C > 2D > J.Gashou > Jakou > 66~2C > jCx5 > 5C > 2C > jCx5 > j214B Edited November 18, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bace Report post Posted November 18, 2013 midscreen 5c > 3c > ODC > 66 5c > 6d~a > 66 2d > 214d~66b > 623d > j6d~d > 6c > 66 5c > 2c > jc2 > jc5 > j214b 5918dm 51 heat gain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrlaltwtf Report post Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) midscreen 5c > 3c > ODC > 66 5c > 6d~a > 66 2d > 214d~66b > 623d > j6d~d > 6c > 66 5c > 2c > jc2 > jc5 > j214b 5918dm 51 heat gain I love this combo, it's like a synergy of all the the things about our previous finds combined into one. It's just a pity it only works strictly midscreen. Any farther/closer and the j6D becomes impossible. It's annoying but the corner is, once again, actually a hindrance rather than a help to us lol. Edited November 18, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Putin Report post Posted November 19, 2013 New corner Zaneiga route: Zaneiga lvl1 > 66 5C > 2D > Jak.Gasshou > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > sj.C5 > 5C > 2C > sj.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren 4536 damage, 34 meter Off other starters: -CH 5C > Zaneiga: 4692 damage, 35 meter -CH 3C > Zaneiga: 4566 damage, 34 meter -Zaneiga lvl2: 5367 damage, 40 meter (no reason to do that if you're in their face, since you can dash under them for a Jakou route*) The timing for 5C > 2D is kinda tricky, since you don't want them too low because it won't bite, but also not too high because you won't be able to connect the 6C. In the latter occasion you can salvage your combo though by taking this route instead: Zaneiga lvl1 > 66 5C > 2D > Jak.Gasshou > 66 5C > sj.C5 > 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D~D > j.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren 4468 damage, 33 meter. Only about 100 damage lost, not bad and still better than the Zaneiga > 5C > 6C path** You also have to omit the 4D off CH 5C and 3C. *Zaneiga lvl2 > 66 5C crossunder > 6C > walk 5C > 2C > Jakou > (66) 5C > 2C > sj.C5 > 66 5C > 2C > 2D~D > j.C1 > dj.C5 > Hiren 5617 damage, 39 meter Also possible off CH Zaneiga lvl1 for 4731 damage and 33 meter. **Zaneiga lvl1 > (walk/66) 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > Jak.Gasshou > 66 5C > sj.C5 > 5C > 2C > sj.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren 4396 damage, 31 meter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bace Report post Posted November 19, 2013 saw this in an Aru match, corner BC > 214d~66b > 66 5c > 6c > 66 2c > jc5 > 5c > 2c > jc1 > jc5 > j214b 4011dm 27 heat gain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrlaltwtf Report post Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) saw this in an Aru match, corner BC > 214d~66b > 66 5c > 6c > 66 2c > jc5 > 5c > 2c > jc1 > jc5 > j214b 4011dm 27 heat gain This is what I do: BC>J.Gashou>66 5C>6C>66 5C>2C>4D~A>66~2D~D>jCx2>jCx5>j214B - DM: 4016 - +30 Heat Back to wall: BC>Jakou>66 5C>6C>66 5C>2C>4D~A>66~2D~D>jCx1>jCx5>j214B - DM: 4355 - +33 Heat Midscreen: 4B+C>J.Gashou>66 5C>jCx5>66 5C>2C>4D~delay~D>jCx2>jCx5>j214B - DM: 3835 - +26 Heat. Nice and reliable. Midscreen: 4B+C>J.Gashou>66 5C>6C>66 5C>2C>4D~A>jD~delay~D>jCx1>jCx5>j214B - DM: 3985 - +30 Heat. Pretty sure the second 66 5C is character specific. Edited November 20, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangle Report post Posted November 20, 2013 Any tips on connecting the microdash 5A after 214D~B? This micro dash has been driving me crazy as well, any tips on things to look for would be appreciated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Putin Report post Posted November 20, 2013 It's not really that hard, if you can't figure out the exact timing just do point blank 3C > 214D~66B > 5A (no dash), and see when the 5A comes out. When you get the timing down and actually press the 5A once and not mash it, try inputting a dash before it. It's also impossible to 66 5A at certain distances so make sure you're close enough and you're not wasting your time in combos that don't work Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangle Report post Posted November 20, 2013 It's not really that hard, if you can't figure out the exact timing just do point blank 3C > 214D~66B > 5A (no dash), and see when the 5A comes out. When you get the timing down and actually press the 5A once and not mash it, try inputting a dash before it. It's also impossible to 66 5A at certain distances so make sure you're close enough and you're not wasting your time in combos that don't work I didn't realize it would drop if I was too close to do so, that's actually a huge help, because I've been practicing in the corner just to get the 5A timing down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Putin Report post Posted November 20, 2013 make sure you're close enough I never mentioned any issues about the combo dropping if you're too close, on the contrary. You don't want to be too far when you 3C since even if you do 66 5A correctly it might not reach them. That's why I proposed doing point blank 3C, so you wouldn't have to worry about the distance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites