[CP] Hazama Combo Theory Discussion Thread

[Blackwing55]

Midscreen combo

5C-3C-houtenjin-J.Zaneiga-6A-d.5C-6C-d.5C-2C-6D-J.Gashou-Jakou-Mizuchi

 

Damage:6829

Heat gain:32 (-68)

minimum heat:68

notes: Don't be afraid to use this to close out the match if you do not have 100 heat. This combo is efficent to your heat gauge up to when you hit 93 heat after that you lose up to a total of 7 heat if they live.

 

5C-3C-houtenjin-j.Zaneiga-6A-d.5C-6C-d.5C-2C-4D-j.8D-Jakou-mizuchi

Damage:6861

heat gain:34 (-66)

Minimum heat:66

Notes: pretty much the same as the one above.

 

OD:50%health

 

5C-3C-OD-d.5C-6D-GB-d.5C-6C-d.5C-5D-J.Gashou-5C-2C-4D-jakou-mizuchi

Damage:6687

minium heat:43

Heat gain:32 (-43)

Notes: I know for 100% fact that this isn't the most optimal combo considering I got 6811 damage while I was auto-piloting staring at the heat gauge while I did the combo for the minimum heat. All I know is it didn't use houtenjin, it gave about 35 heat ( because I ended up gaining more heat than what I normally should have got since it was at the lowest amount of heat I could use to get the combo) ended in mizuchi and used 50% OD.

 

Corner Combo.

 

5C-3C-Houtenjin-J.Zaneiga-(cross under)5C-6C-Jakou-5C-2C-6DA-d.2DD-j214B

 

Damage:6022

Minimum heat:43

Heatgain:35(-15)

 

5B-5C-3C-Houtenjin-J.Zaneiga-(cross under) 5C-6C-Jakou-5C-2C-2D-214B

(5B-5C-3C-Houtenjin-J.Zaneiga-(Crossunder) 5C-6C--Jakou-5C-2C-214B (slightly less damage but slightly better oki))

Damage:5626 (

minimum heat:41

Heatgain: 33(-17)

 

With both of these above combo's you can end with Gashou for just a tad more damage. This of course gives far far less oki.

 

J.Rassenga-d.5C-3C-236D-(crossunder)5C-6C--5C-4D-Jakou-2B

Damage:3199

Heat gain:23

Notes: Amazing for reset. Stay still throw after they tech you got em, 5C,5B as a reset also very very effective. When the throw comes out they will hit the ground and be trapped and for the 5C,5B they will be in the air and would have to barrier guard on tech to not be hit out of it into a reset. ((They are in the corner)Bad against Dp's that can be used in the air like infernal divider or Terumi's Houtenjin)

 

 

In corner (Still under optimizationfor 1.1)

 

5C-2C-3C-d.Gashou-5A-5C-Jakou-5C-6C-d.5C-2C-j5C(x5)-214B

 

Damage:4321

Heat gain:31

 

5A-5C-3C-d.Gashou-5A-5C-Jakou-5C-2C-2D-4D-j.214B

 

Damage:2929

heat gain: 22

notes: one of the more higher damge options not the greatest oki,

 

5A-5C-3C-d.Gashou-5A-5C-2C-4D-Jakou-5C-2C-tk.214B

 

Damage:2895

Heat gain:22

Notes: Much better oki

 

5A-5C-3C-d.Gashou-5A-5C-2C-4DA-j.8DA-Jakou-3C-Rassenga.

 

Damage:2865

Heat gain:22

Notes: Better throw/command grab oki.

 

While in the corner and confirming a 5A hit can lead to a lot of different variations that will give different benifits or set ups for example you can just go into 6C after Jakou or 3C venom sword if you chose.

[Putin]

6A > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > 6A > microdash 5C > 66 6C > 5C > 2C > 4D~A > jB > jC > d.jCx5 [4107]

 

I thought that this was the best currently known route, but 6A's bonus proration doesn't kick in twice so I was thinking of different routes specifically for 6A. Here is what I came up with:

 

6A > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > [6] 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 6D~A > j.8D~D > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

4222 dmg, 28 meter

Do 5C > 2C > 4D~A > 66 2D~D instead in the corner for 4257 damage.

 

The -walk forward- 5C part is kinda weird and you sometimes end up switching sides, but it's not that bad and it's probably worth learning even just for the 6A starter

 

 

Some more throw combos:

 

Air throw > Zaneiga > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D~D > j.C1 > dj.C5 > Hiren

3451 dmg, 25 meter

4D Is kinda iffy though so you can go straight into sj.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren for like 50 less damage and 1 less meter unit

 

(Corner) air throw > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D~A > 66 2D~D > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

3635 dmg, 28 meter

 

(Back to corner) Throw > Jakou > 5C(1) > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D~C > j.C1 > dj.C5 > Hiren

4047 dmg, 30 meter

 

(Back to corner) Air throw > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 6D/4D > Jakou > 66 5C > 2C > Hiren

3754 dmg, 29 meter

 

 

Corner Houtenjin sideswap rule of the thumb (for the time being at least):

 

1 normal > Houtenjin >

   J.Zaneiga > crossunder 5C > 6C > [6] 5C > 2C > 4D > Jakou > 5C > 2C > Hiren

 

2 normals > Houtenjin >

   J.Zaneiga > crossunder 5C > 6C > [6] 5C > 2C > Jakou > 5C > 2C > Hiren

 

3 normals > Houtenjin >

   J.Zaneiga > crossunder 5C > 6C > [6] 5C > 2C > 4D > Jakou > 3C > Ressenga

 

 

Remember the days when we got 7k off 5C > Houtenjin and like 60 meter back? Rip Hazama ;_;

[Ourozama]

I thought that this was the best currently known route, but 6A's bonus proration doesn't kick in twice so I was thinking of different routes specifically for 6A. Here is what I came up with:

 

6A > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > [6] 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 6D~A > j.8D~D > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

4222 dmg, 28 meter

Do 5C > 2C > 4D~A > 66 2D~D instead in the corner for 4257 damage.

 

The -walk forward- 5C part is kinda weird and you sometimes end up switching sides, but it's not that bad and it's probably worth learning even just for the 6A starter

 

Sorry my bad, didn't know that 6A's bonus proration doesn't affect the combo again. Thanks!

 

-

 

Someone uploaded two videos on what Hazama could do in 1.0 and what he couldn't do in 1.1 anymore.

 

Ver 1.0

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23550442

 

Ver 1.1

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23576950

 

The choice of music is great for reminiscing too.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Ourozama

[someonewhodied]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AB-DevW8uE

 

Turn any random N starter into corner carry from even full health

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I thought that this was the best currently known route, but 6A's bonus proration doesn't kick in twice so I was thinking of different routes specifically for 6A. Here is what I came up with:

 

6A > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > [6] 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 6D~A > j.8D~D > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

4222 dmg, 28 meter

Do 5C > 2C > 4D~A > 66 2D~D instead in the corner for 4257 damage.

 

The -walk forward- 5C part is kinda weird and you sometimes end up switching sides, but it's not that bad and it's probably worth learning even just for the 6A starter

 

If you delay the 5C and do 66~5C instead you will be close enough to do 4D instead of 6D even midscreen, which gives 4257 just like the corner combo

 

 

These are my current 50 meter routes:

 

Gasaishou DM: 2592

236C>5A>5C>3C>214D~66B>5A>5C>2C>4D~A>j8D~A>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

5A DM: 3856 - Requires 43 Heat

5A>5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 6C>66 5C>2C>Jakou

 

5A DM: 3735 - Requires 29 Heat

5A>5C>3C>214D~66B>5A>5C>2C>4D~A>j8D~A>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

5B DM: 5323

5B>5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>6A>66 5C>6C>66 5C>2C>4D~D>jCx5>Hiren

 

5C DM: 5700 - Requires fastest execution, refunds 32 Heat

5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>6A>66 5C>6C>66 5C>2C>4D~small delay~D>jCx2>jCx5>Hiren 

 

5C DM: 5700 - Needs to be midscreen, more lenient on execution, refunds 33 Heat

5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 5C>4D>214D~66 crossunder~Gashou>Jakou>66 5C>2C>Hiren

 

I find it amusing that the two 5C combos do the exact same damage.

[Red Reaper]

 

CORNER

 

5B > 5C > 3C > Jabaki > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > J.Gasshoukyaku > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.Cx2 > dj.Cx5 > Hirentotsu

3949 dmg, 30 meter.

Should work off everything other than jabs, Gasai and Ressenga. If you use one extra normal before 3C, go straight for 66C instead of 66 5C > 6C.

I was certain that the old double j.C route would work, but I haven't been able to pickup with 5C after Gasshou > sj.C5, so unless I'm doing something wrong the combo above should be the best one atm

 

 

For this kombo are you doing 2 hits for the J.Gasshoukyaku or one? I'm having trouble landing the 66 5C.

[nstalkie]

For this kombo are you doing 2 hits for the J.Gasshoukyaku or one? I'm having trouble landing the 66 5C.

 

Yes, you need the charged version.

[Putin]

AA J.Gasshou > 66 5C > j.C5 > 5C > sj.C5 > 66 5C > 2D > [4] 4D~D > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

3611 dmg, 24 meter

 

Corner J.Gasshou > 66 5C > 6C > 66 2C > sj.C5 > 5C > 4D > 66 2D~D > j.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

3673 dmg, 26 meter

 

Sadly the first one doesn't work off CH, you can barely get anything off of it.

The second one works off ground or AA confirm, CH or not

 

Ver 1.0

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23550442

Does anyone know the name of the song? So pretty ;_;

[PlaneCrash]

the second one is great

[Grigori]

I'm a complete scrub here so can anyone please tell me what things like Houtenjin, or Zaneiga, or for that matter anything that isnt a command I can read is?

Or where I can find out what they are?

 

I cant even begin to attemp these combo's because I have no idea what these things are.

 

I'd really appreciate it.

[Putin]

Specials:

 

j.214B - Hirentotsu

236C - Gasaishou

236D - Jabaki

214D - Jasetsu

214D~66 - Jakatsu*

214D~A - Ressenga

214D~B - Gasshoukyaku

214D~C - Zaneiga

623D - Jakou

 

Supers:

 

236236B - Jayoku Houtenjin

632146C - Mizuchi Rekkazan

214D~632146D (or 632146DD) - Orochi Burensou

 

*certain things work by doing Jakatsu and then the followup, that's when you see stuff like J.Gasshou which stands for 214D~66B.

[Ourozama]

I need help with the super jump input in 214D~C > 66 6C > 5C > 2C > 4D > 214D~66B > sjCCCCC > .... I'm getting either a normal jump or a super jump that's too late that my jC whiff. Am I suppose to delay the j.Gasshoukyaku such that it hits the opponent after he falls abit lower from the air? I try buffering the 2 input but it doesn't really help... maybe I'm doing it wrongly?

 

Also for 214D~A > 2A > 2B > 3C, 3C will whiff so just take note.

[Putin]

You need to delay Gasshou almost as much as you'd delay it if you wanted to do Gasshou > 66 5C, you also don't have to worry about them being too low afterwards since 2D can get max hitstun almost at point blank

[Ourozama]

Sorry I wasn't being clear with the specified combo, it's this at 1:52

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tayKEWE0beI

[Putin]

I was referring to the same combo lol, the ender is suboptimal though since you can do j.C5 > 66 5C > 2D

[Ourozama]

I was referring to the same combo lol, the ender is suboptimal though since you can do j.C5 > 66 5C > 2D

 

Haha actually I'm having trouble in the middle of the combo concerning s.j > j.C5 and not the ender. All this while what I've been doing after j.Gasshou is 5C > j.B > j.C > d.jC5 > Hiren for 3.7k which is nice in term of dmg and easier in execution but I need help with the super jump input after j.Gasshou since this route gives 4k dmg.

[Putin]

We're talking about the same part of the combo ;_;

 

Zaneiga > 66C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > J.Gasshou > sj.C5 > 66 5C  > 2D~D > j.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

 

The only difference between your combo and mine is the dash before the final 5C and that extra 2D for some additional damage. The sj.C5 part is exactly the same whichever route you decide to take, so my advice two posts back still stands

[Grigori]

Specials:

 

j.214B - Hirentotsu

236C - Gasaishou

236D - Jabaki

214D - Jasetsu

214D~66 - Jakatsu*

214D~A - Ressenga

214D~B - Gasshoukyaku

214D~C - Zaneiga

623D - Jakou

 

Supers:

 

236236B - Jayoku Houtenjin

632146C - Mizuchi Rekkazan

214D~632146D (or 632146DD) - Orochi Burensou

 

*certain things work by doing Jakatsu and then the followup, that's when you see stuff like J.Gasshou which stands for 214D~66B.

 

Really appreciate this post. Was able to put together the combos you have all discussed with this information.

 

At the risk of sounding absoulutely terrible at fighting games tho I have to ask how in the hell do you guys consistently do certain moves in this game?

Maybe its just me but I cannot for the life of me do moves like 236236B or 623D consistently.

Particularly the 623D. I have performed both moves in training mode multiple times with the exact same inputs shown. I'm at a total loss as to how I'm putting in the same inputs for 2 different moves. Is it about speed or the timing of the D button? I know I have to be doing something wrong but it honestly feels like I have RNG with this somethimes.

 

I'm also embarassed to admit I have trouble making a dash work as I'd like it to. I know its just 66 but for whatever reason sometimes it just doesnt work or its later than I want it to be. I dont know how to read when its usable after performing certain moves.

 

And another question I'd like to ask is about the speed of inputs. Do you guys input the next move in the combo before the current one is finished, or is it about timing it perfectly?

I get the impression that some combo's dont work without lightning fast inputs.

 

I've played games such as marvel and soul calibur and I've never had this kinda trouble before. This is the first time I've felt like I'm actually fighting the game itself instead of just learning it. Are you all able to perform your combos without frustration? I could really use some pointers for adjusting to a more technical fighting game.

 

I'm sorry for asking questions of this sort but as far as I can tell I'm the only person alive that has this kinda trouble.

[nstalkie]

You are not alone. Many people have execution problems. I myself am quite bad at execution. Friends of mine are sometimes impressed by what I can do, but what they don't see is the hours I have spent in training mode in order to pull it off with any kind of consistency. That's the key here: grinding it out!

 

To give an actual real example: I noticed yesterday that I was getting 236D instead of 623D from the right side a few times with Hazama. I didn't have this problem before the patch (haven't really been playing much since the patch, haven't went into training mode properly yet). So what will I do tonight? Try to figure out why it's happening in training mode. I bet it's something like i'm holding 6 too long and i'm doing something like [6]236D ( [X] = the notation for holding a direction). Seems like maybe you are having the same problem as me?

 

General execution advice: always make sure to do combos exactly as shown in the video/combolist you are using. The combo may work differently on different characters or may just not be possible from certain starter moves. For longer combos, split them up into distinct parts. Try to train parts separately and combine them once you feel confident in both parts.

Hazama is a bit tricky combo-wise. The dash links etc... they are all timing based, it's something you need to develop a feel for. It's tricky at first, but I'm sure after a while you'll get the hang of it. If the dash doesn't come out, you are doing them too early. Speed of input matters for some things, not for others, so it's difficult to say without going into specific combos. Timing matters quite a bit in his combos.

Examples:

5B 3C 214D~A: basic combo, just input it quickly.

Anti Air 623D 632146C: that distortion (super) can be inputted slowly. No need to input it very quickly. People have always been amazed at how slowly I input the super in these situations. Timing for when it needs to be done has been made very lenient in the patch too. If it doesn't come out: you are doing it too quickly.

5B 3C 214D~66B dash 5A etc... : the 214D~66B is a very fast input, you basically have to hit them with it before they touch the ground as high up as possible. The dash afterwards is a specific timing. Do it too soon and it won't come out. Do it too late and it won't combo. The 5A is inputted during the dash. Have to be careful not to input 6A ! (some people do 664A in order to do a dash A to prevent that). This is not an easy "beginner" combo!

 

if you post specific combos and what exactly your problems are with them, it will be easier to help you I think. Maybe the combos you are trying are just some of the harder ones.

 

PS: mvc3 and soul calibur are quite easy combowise IMHO (except for some specific characters .. alpha patroklos comes to mind).

[Grigori]

It's almost eerie that you specifically mentioned the stuff I was working on yesterday nstalkie.

 

I did actually manage some consistency in the 623D 632146C combo. Tho the hitbox for 623D feels really small sometimes.

How's the timing for landing 623D after performing 236236B, and does it require a back dash to land? I couldnt land it consistently enough to make a good judgement about it.

 

Just seems to me with inputs this specific that playing reliably online is almost impossible. I havent played more than a few matches online prior to learning a combo or two so I cant say for sure, but it certainly gives the impression that inputs with no wiggle room would do more harm than good for the online aspect.

I appreciate the advice on how to improve. I just dont like that I feel I have to focus so hard on the execution instead of just reacting to the other player. I'm hoping that aspect fades as you get more accustomed to performing moves. I always get tense when I attempt hypers and such, and the amount of matches I could have won if they went off when I tried for them is higher than I care to admit.

 

All that said I really appreciate the response.

[nstalkie]

It's normal man, everyone has been through this. Blazblue's online is pretty good fortunately and the combos are certainly doable online. I found marvel's online to be really bad (only played vanilla mvc3, and only for a couple of weeks).

 

For the 623D > 632146C, I just gave it as an example for an input you can do slowly, it's not really a combo you'll see people use much like that in actual matches. It's a part of quite a few combos though (and you won't have to worry about spacing in those ones, once you correctly started them: example: 214D~C > dash 6C > dash 5C > 2C > 6D~A > 4D~A > j.4D~A > 236D > 632146C). Edit: this combo may be a little difficult if you are starting out, but can be made easier by only doing ... > 6D~A > 236D > 632146C, you'll want to learn that full sequence of chains some time though. Edit 2: another combo where you can use 623D into that super in a realistic way is forward throw > 623D > 632146C.

 

To land the 623D after 236236D, yes, you need the backdash.

 

PS: my own problem with 236D coming out sometimes instead of 623D was that i sometimes got an extra 4 input when inputting from the right side. 

[Ourozama]

We're talking about the same part of the combo ;_;

 

Zaneiga > 66C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > J.Gasshou > sj.C5 > 66 5C  > 2D~D > j.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

 

The only difference between your combo and mine is the dash before the final 5C and that extra 2D for some additional damage. The sj.C5 part is exactly the same whichever route you decide to take, so my advice two posts back still stands

 

Welp, my bad. Still can't do it but I'm going to keep trying. Thanks!

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Throw Combos with Meter:

 

Midscreen:

DM: 4067

B+C>Jakou>RC sj6D~D>66 6A>5C>2C>4D~delay~D>jCx2>jCx5>Hiren

 

DM: 4618

4B+C>J.Gashou>66 5C>2C>4D~A>j8D~A>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

Midscreen 100 Meter

DM: 5230

4/5B+C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>6A>66 5C>2C>4D>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

 

Corner

DM: 4834

B+C>J.Gashou>66 5C>6C>66 5C>2C>4D>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

DM: 4427

4B+C>Zaneiga>66 5C>6C>66 5C>2C>4D>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

 

100 Meter + Corner

DM: 5327

B+C>J.Gashou>66 5C>6C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga (backwards)>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

DM: 5277

4B+C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga (backwards)>66 6C>66 5C>2C>4D>Jakou>Mizuchi

[Mo the Hawk]

100 Meter + OD (At least OD lvl 70%... or more specifically you need red health to get the auto-heat gain)

DM: 7413 + ~1000 drained from OD ring

 

5C > Houtenjin > (dash) OD > CT > (dash) 5C > 6D~A > (dash) 6A > (dash) 5C > 6C > (dash) 5C > 5D~A > 4D~A > j.7D~A > Jakou > Mizuchi

 

Unfortunately using 3C before Houtenjin in this route screws it over. You have to switch the order of [5C > 6D~A > (dash) 6A] and [5C > 6C]; otherwise they tech out before 6C. But even then, they'll tech out of Jakou. And if you omit anything else, you won't build the meter necessary for Mizuchi ender.

 

By the way I've been working on a Hazama 1.1 "combo bible" of sorts... so far I've got over 300 combos based on different starters, resources used and screen positions. I still have about 70 to go, and they're the OD combos so it might be a while. It'll most likely get pared down to a more managable size once I figure out the "main" paths and where they diverge. This was originally for my own personal reference to help bring some order to the chaos of which combos I should be doing in which situations (including how to adjust them for specific characters), so once I feel comfortable with the organization of the data I'll share it with you guys.

[Putin]

Nice find, I was trying to figure out a substitute to the old 9555 dmg 5C OD combo myself, but was only attempting stuff with my back to the corner for whatever reason

However, I couldn't get j.7D to work on Terumi (didn't try it on anyone else yet) so I came up with a slightly different but superior version:

 

5C > Houtenjin > 66 OD > CT > 66 5C > 6D~A > 66A > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D~A > j.7D~A > Jakou > Mizuchi

for 7427 damage, 100 meter and <=35% health required. You basically swap 5D~A with 2C.

 

Just wondering, at what health does the 1k life drain occur? I'm asking because the OD ring disappears during Mizuchi whenever the OD ends, which is sad since it could count for a slight OD boost to the super if it persisted. Oh well