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[CP] Hazama Combo Theory Discussion Thread

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Been wondering how to get the most out of midscreen Houtenjin OD so these are really helpful.

How about corner Houtenjin OD combo? I've been using 5C > Houtenjin > OD > j.7D~A > Jakou > 66CT > 5C > 2D > j.B > j.C > d.JCx5 [6164 DMG] but I'm thinking there should be a way better route.

 

Also just to quote myself since I finally manage to get this combo down earlier...

 

I need help with the super jump input in 214D~C > 66 6C > 5C > 2C > 4D > 214D~66B > sjCCCCC > .... I'm getting either a normal jump or a super jump that's too late that my jC whiff. Am I suppose to delay the j.Gasshoukyaku such that it hits the opponent after he falls abit lower from the air? I try buffering the 2 input but it doesn't really help... maybe I'm doing it wrongly?

 

Also for 214D~A > 2A > 2B > 3C, 3C will whiff so just take note.

 

For the 214D~66B portion, input 214D and once the opponent starts to fall backwards, immediately do 66B while in the early few frames of the stance dash. What I've been doing was 214D~66 immediately then wait for the opponent to fall backward before hitting B.

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Thanks Putin, nice find. You'll only get the extra OD ring damage during Mizuchi if you have 10% health or less. My ~1000 is just an estimate based on how long you keep them in the ring post-Houtenjin. And since Ouro just asked Putin's variation doesn't work in the corner but mine does. So mine should be corner-only, anywhere else replace 5D with 2C at the end.

 

Ouro I think you missed the 2C at the end... 5C (OTG) 2D shouldn't be possible. I like the route though. Here's my slightly higher damage variation:

 

Back to Corner - 75 Meter + OD (any lvl)

5C > Houtenjin > OD > j.7D~A > Jakou > 66CT > 5C > 2C > 4D~D> j.C > d.JCx5 > Hiren [6204 DMG]

 

If you use 3C before Houtenjin, just omit the j.Cx1 for 6070 damage.

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Ops my bad, forgot about the OD level :vbang: Not really sure about the OD level... but it needs to be long enough for the 2D to be the OD version. Btw another way I did mine was 2D > (wait abit to let the life ring steal abit more life) > 4D (same thing) > j.Cx5 [6164 dmg(can't rmb now)] Just don't delay the followup too much.

 

So.. I need some 6A midscreen Houtenjin OD combo. Anyone? Thanks!

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It should be the same off 6A, but you'd replace 6D~A > 66A with 6D~A > 66B I guess. I've definitely seen it in combos, but I couldn't get it to work for some reason.

The meter gain shouldn't be enough to end it with Mizuchi though, so for this case and any other time when you don't have enough meter for CT, just do Houtenjin > OD > J.Gasshou > (6)6D~A > and so on.

I also tried 6B instead of Gasshou and it works, but it should yield less damage

 

Might edit the post with exact values later if I get around hitting the lab

 

 

Also, the 2C variant does work in the corner, but it's character specific. Probably works on the big guys only

 

EDIT

Non-CT versions of the 5C Houtenjin OD combo:

 

5C > Houtenjin > OD > J.Gasshou > 66D~A > 66A > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > sj.C1 > dj.C5 > Hiren

5577 dmg, works even with 100% health but is fully unburstable only at 50% or lower.

 

5C > Houtenjin > OD > J.Gasshou > 66D~A > 66A > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D~A > j.7D~A > Jakou > Mizuchi

6885 dmg, requires 61 meter and <=40% health for it to be fully unburstable. 55 meter required at <=35% health.

 

Also, for some reason corner 2B oki has changed and stuff > 8dj.C5 > Hiren > 2B doesn't seem to catch rolls anymore, however it does almost off of anything if you do 9dj.C5 > Hiren. Even straight up 5C > 2C > sj.C5 > Hiren works. In this case you get a lot more damage since you get to use Jakou, but they can burst as soon as you hit them and now you're in the corner. :v: Here's my sideswap roll punish combo anyway:

 

2B > 5B > 5C > Jakou > 5C > 6C > 66 2C > sj.C5 > 5C > 4D~A > 66 2D~D > j.C1 > dj.C5 > Hiren

4308 dmg, 30 meter

If you KNOW they're gonna roll, you can optimize it further by doing 2B > 5C > 2C I guess, but this is much safer.

Also note that 6C > 66 2C doesn't work on some characters, Izayoi confirmed

 

And non-sideswap 2B roll punish off TK Hiren ender:

 

2B > 5B > 5C > 4D > J.Gasshou > sj.C5 > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

3525 dmg, 27 meter.

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Thanks Putin for the roll punish route.

 

Herer's a crossunder using throw in corner if you know your opponent will neutral tech

 

Forward Throw > 214D~66B > 5C > 6C > 663C > Jabaki > dash under > stuff

 

You can either go for

1. Another crossunder using dash 2B into starter > Houtenjin or throw again

2. Jump over them and 2C > stuff

3. Empty jump over into low or throw

4. Stay in the corner and backward throw

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50 Meter / Midscreen
Houtenjin (non-CH) > J.Zaneiga > dash 6C > dash 5C > 2C > sj.Cx5 > Hiren (4055 dmg)
^ If the Houtenjin counter-hits, you can't end with Hiren becuase the CH adds more hitstop. In which case...
 
50 Meter / Midscreen
Houtenjin (CH) > J.Zaneiga > dash 6C > dash 5C > 2C > 4D > Jakou (4071 dmg)
 
50 Meter / Back to Corner
Houtenjin > Jakou > dash 6C > dash 5C > 2C > 4D~D > Hiren (4114 dmg)
 
100 Meter / Anywhere
Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > 6C > 5C > 2C > 4D > Jakou > Mizuchi (5310 dmg)
^ If you start Back to Corner on this one it's possible to add 3C before Mizuchi for 150 more damage, but the spacing is very specific.
 
50 Meter + OD / Midscreen
Houtenjin > OD > J.Gasshou > dash 5C > 2C > 4D~A > j.7D~A > Jakou (4045 dmg + negligible extra amount from OD ring)
^ Completely burst-safe, so if the non-OD route would kill anyway, just burn OD and use this route.
 
50 Meter + OD / Back to Corner
Houtenjin > Jakou > OD > 5C > 6D~A > 4D~A > 2D~D > j.6D~D > j.4D~D > Hiren (4264 dmg + moderate extra amount from OD ring)
^ Not burst-safe between Jakou and OD, so only use this route if you want that extra bit of damage and they don't have burst back yet.
 
100 Meter + OD / Anywhere
Houtenjin > [6] > OD > dash 5C > 6C > dash 5C > 6D~A > 4D~A > j.7D~A > Jakou > Mizuchi (5234 dmg + small extra amount from OD ring)
^ To get 5C > 6C: hold forward after Houtenjin, activate OD when you see them appear on-screen again, then dash 5C > 6C.

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This is by no means finished yet, and I feel like the organization is still really sloppy, but I've decided I need to move on from combos and focus on other aspects, so I'm handing this off to you guys. Do with it what you will.

 

Hazama 1.1 Combo Bible

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1evoX9QQv_Ko-GIdLzBTtBQq-oAxT-rxy_q_5fBCIqYk/edit?usp=sharing

 

Main purpose for putting this together was to find a nice blend of optimization and consistency in combo routes, which became a massive pain in the ass with the j.C changes in 1.1. Not every combo listed here is max damage, and you may very well have other preferences. These are just what I've come to feel most comfortable with.

 

For example, the Meterless - Back Throw - Midscreen combo:

You get a little more damage by omitting 5B and adding an extra j.C, but I've found this to be highly inconsistent because of the spacing required to get full hitstun out of j.7D. Adding the 5B creates enough space to make that j.7D guaranteed. So I simplified the route at the cost of negligible damage. You'll find a lot of these in the spreadsheet. Take them or leave them.

 

The "Character Adjustments" tab should be self-explanatory: make notes about adjustments you'll need to make on certain characters. To cut down on testing time I broke the total number of combos down into "main paths" that other combos deviate from. For example you'll see a lot of combos that say [Do the combo already listed elsewhere, but use one less j.C]. The main purpose of the char adjustments data is to keep track of which paths work and which ones don't, so if combo A works and combo B is just a slight variation of combo A, you shouldn't have to waste time testing combo B on the same character.

 

The "N starter > j.C loop first rep" row is just something to help keep you from dropping your BnBs because you couldn't tell whether to normal jump or super jump after 5A > 5C. All characters' air hurtboxes are not created equal. Don't drop your BnBs because you feel like you have to guess.

 

The Overdrive sections of both tabs is still very incomplete... it became pretty exhausting to find optimal stuff off the more unlikely-to-land starters. I hope some of you will help fill these in!

 

As a final note... after putting this together over the course of 4 weeks, I've become really, really annoyed with the combo system in this game. The starter rating / timer system really screws with Haz. You could have an otherwise solid combo, then get robbed of your knockdown because they auto-tech between j.Cx5 and Hiren. But this is how it works now, like it or not, and I hope this tool gives you guys a means to take the guess work out of combos and have us stop losing matches from dropping our shit.

 

Hollar at me if you have any other questions - I seriously won't take offense if no one uses this at all because all the combos suck or anything like that. Thanks!

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Cool shit man, I had a quick glimpse at it and it seems really well put together.

I'd normally advise you compare some of your combos to those posted in here since I saw some suboptimal stuff (while the optimal routes aren't unstable), but you obviously put too much work into it so you'll need to take a rest

 

I'm guessing it's ok for us to edit it as long as we have better alternatives? Maybe type down our versions in the note section so people can compare them first?

 

Also, regarding your rant towards the end...

 

Hazama's combos are the definition of unstable now.

 

They succeeded in cutting down his damage via the Houtenjin and j.C float nerfs which is cool, but they just couldn't be sure if those would do the trick and decreased the hitstun on j.C as well, causing many combos to drop during the final j.C because you were a frame late in the whole combo. gg Pachi

 

-Will these nerfs do the work?

-idk lol, slap in some more just to make sure

-k

-k

:vbang:

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This is by no means finished yet, and I feel like the organization is still really sloppy, but I've decided I need to move on from combos and focus on other aspects, so I'm handing this off to you guys. Do with it what you will.

 

Hazama 1.1 Combo Bible

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1evoX9QQv_Ko-GIdLzBTtBQq-oAxT-rxy_q_5fBCIqYk/edit?usp=sharing

 

 

Thank you. Have my own notes mostly stuff copied from this thread and combo videos but this is way better put together also needing help with Zaneiga after Houtenjin is there a visual cue or way to time it. Can this please be put on the front page.

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The way I did mine is look for the black bar of Houtenjin to start fading then immediately input 214D and input 66C when he's about to reach the combo number. Though I would like to know other ways of doing it too lol.

 

Also, nice work on the combo bible!

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214D instantly, the timing for 66C is different depending on the combo route and the opponent sadly.

If you want to go for the 6A route, then you must catch them with Zaneiga pretty high. Inputting 66C right about when the enemy reappears on the screen seems a pretty ok timing for most characters iirc

 

It's difficult to explain how to do things that you've been doing based on feel rather than muscle memory lol

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Hazama's combos are the definition of unstable now.

 

They succeeded in cutting down his damage via the Houtenjin and j.C float nerfs which is cool, but they just couldn't be sure if those would do the trick and decreased the hitstun on j.C as well, causing many combos to drop during the final j.C because you were a frame late in the whole combo. gg Pachi

 

This sums up my experience completely, I'm still unhappy with everything except for immediate Mizuchi off of Jakou. At least there's that. 

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New, somewhat improved 100 meter OD combo, tweeted by Hitotose:

 

5C > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > 6A > (66) 5C ODC > 66 5C > 2D > CT > 66 5C > 6D~A > 5C > 4D~A > j.7D~A > Jakou > Mizuchi

7736 damage, without taking into account the lifesteal, even though it's not much. 100 meter required, works at <=50% hp but they can burst between Jakou and Mizuchi.

Also works off 5B for 7378 dmg.

 

Fully unburstable only at 10% hp, at that point it's possible to do it off 3C and 2C as well.

This is obviously not a burst stealer, but it's nice to have a max damage combo no matter the requirements

 

If they get their burst back during the OD time and they're mashing it, bursting during the middle of Jakou's animation or something, I guess you can RC Jakou into another one to compensate for Mizuchi's 1k. Otherwise they can time it during Mizuchi's startup to avoid it altogether and make you waste 50 meter :toot: but there's also the burst safe alternative a few posts up

 

EDIT

 

Also, something I thought about experimenting with some time ago but totally forgot.

The optimal way (combo-wise) to convert a CH 2C frametrap is by following it up with 5C > 4D > Gasshou and you go from there.

But what if we could auto-pilot IAD for a crossup, and at the same time be able to pick them up for a combo if they do get frametrapped?

 

(grounded) CH 2C > IAD > 5B > 5C > 4D > J.Gasshou > sj.C5 > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

3884 dmg, 29 meter

 

Position specific variants when you get them into the corner:

 

CH 2C > IAD > 5B > 5C > 4D > J.Gasshou > Jakou > j.6D~D > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > Hiren

4077 dmg, 33 meter

 

CH 2C > IAD > 5B > 5C > 4D > J.Gasshou >  Jakou > 66 5C > 2C > sj.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

4245 dmg, 32 meter

 

Jakou is kinda iffy, sometimes it whiffs depending on position and character, but it's a cool option nevertheless

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Probably the most optimal 5a corner combo is.

 

5A-5C-3C-214D-B-d.5A-5C-6C-d.5C-2C-j.5C(x2)-j.5C(x5)-214B.

 

Damage:2900

Heat gain: 20

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hey guys it's your typical noob again ~ 
i have a problem with connecting the 5C after J.Zaneiga > 6A...
is there something i need to look for so that i can hit them with the 5C before they recover ? i've tried it many times to hit with the 6A as soon as possible but i can land it maybe 1 out of 10 times atm.. oh and is there something helpful to look for to successfully connect the J. Gasshou after a Houtenjin ?
Thanks !

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Make sure the Zaneiga is green and you pick them up with it relatively high up the air

Gasshou is really easy idk, really not strict at all

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The way I did mine is look for the black bar of Houtenjin to start fading then immediately input 214D and input 66C when he's about to reach the combo number. Though I would like to know other ways of doing it too lol.

 

Also, nice work on the combo bible!

I input the 214D when the character's body leaves the screen (it goes stops once, then pops out of the screen). Some characters don't make that little stop back into the screen and for those I just imagine the stop. Then I short dash trying to make sure I don't dash past the opponent as they land.

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This is by no means finished yet, and I feel like the organization is still really sloppy, but I've decided I need to move on from combos and focus on other aspects, so I'm handing this off to you guys. Do with it what you will.

 

Hazama 1.1 Combo Bible

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1evoX9QQv_Ko-GIdLzBTtBQq-oAxT-rxy_q_5fBCIqYk/edit?usp=sharing

 

Main purpose for putting this together was to find a nice blend of optimization and consistency in combo routes, which became a massive pain in the ass with the j.C changes in 1.1. Not every combo listed here is max damage, and you may very well have other preferences. These are just what I've come to feel most comfortable with.

 

For example, the Meterless - Back Throw - Midscreen combo:

You get a little more damage by omitting 5B and adding an extra j.C, but I've found this to be highly inconsistent because of the spacing required to get full hitstun out of j.7D. Adding the 5B creates enough space to make that j.7D guaranteed. So I simplified the route at the cost of negligible damage. You'll find a lot of these in the spreadsheet. Take them or leave them.

 

The "Character Adjustments" tab should be self-explanatory: make notes about adjustments you'll need to make on certain characters. To cut down on testing time I broke the total number of combos down into "main paths" that other combos deviate from. For example you'll see a lot of combos that say [Do the combo already listed elsewhere, but use one less j.C]. The main purpose of the char adjustments data is to keep track of which paths work and which ones don't, so if combo A works and combo B is just a slight variation of combo A, you shouldn't have to waste time testing combo B on the same character.

 

The "N starter > j.C loop first rep" row is just something to help keep you from dropping your BnBs because you couldn't tell whether to normal jump or super jump after 5A > 5C. All characters' air hurtboxes are not created equal. Don't drop your BnBs because you feel like you have to guess.

 

The Overdrive sections of both tabs is still very incomplete... it became pretty exhausting to find optimal stuff off the more unlikely-to-land starters. I hope some of you will help fill these in!

 

As a final note... after putting this together over the course of 4 weeks, I've become really, really annoyed with the combo system in this game. The starter rating / timer system really screws with Haz. You could have an otherwise solid combo, then get robbed of your knockdown because they auto-tech between j.Cx5 and Hiren. But this is how it works now, like it or not, and I hope this tool gives you guys a means to take the guess work out of combos and have us stop losing matches from dropping our shit.

 

Hollar at me if you have any other questions - I seriously won't take offense if no one uses this at all because all the combos suck or anything like that. Thanks!

This is really great stuff and has plenty of kombos for situations that I overlooked..

 

I'll definitely be using this for my kombos. It's nice to have everything in one place and just learn from the list rather than scavenging through the forums for kombos that may or may not work well.

 

Thanx. I really appreciate this and it should really be in the OP.

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Does anyone have some good AA kombos off of 2C and 5A respectively? I have some but doubt they're optimal...

 

These are the ones I have: 

5A > 5C > j.Cx5 > 5C > 4D~D > j.BCC > j.Cx5 > Hiren /// 2810 Dmg

 

 

2C > 5C > 4D > Gasshou > j.Cx5 > 5C > j.Cx5 > 5C > j.Cxx5 Hiren /// 3845 Dmg

 

 

 

Also, if someone kould help me out with this kombo that would be greatly appreciated:

5B > 5C > 3C > Houtenjin > Zaneiga > 6A > 5C > 6C > 5C > 2C > 4D~D > j.Cx5 > Hiren

 

I feel like I am too far to land the 5C after the 6C.. So I'm guessing I'm missing a few dashes before or something..?
 

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You could've checked out the thread before asking, the last two pages contain 1.1 combos only

 

And yes you're missing a dash after 6A and 6C

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