[CP] Hazama Combo Theory Discussion Thread

[_Sey]

optimal corner meterless route is

 

5B > 5C > 3C xx 236D > d.5C > 6C > d.5C > 2C xx 214D~66B > sjC5 > 5C > jC1 > jC5 > j214B

 

dmg: 4010

 

do that for every single corner hitconfirm, omit d.5C > 6C and go straight for 6C if you hitconfirm with more 5C AND 2C or 2B

if you want a safejump, drop the combo at 214D~66B > jC5 and then IAD j2C.

try to drop the jC5 at the lowest possible height or they'll tech mid air depending on prororation

 

if you hitconfirm starting from 2A then do

 

2A > 5B > 5C > 3C xx 236D > d.6C > d.2C > jC5 > 5C > jC1 > jC5 > j214B

~2800

 

always jC1 > neutral jump jC5 > j214B if you want decent oki positioning

[heavymetalmixer]

optimal corner meterless route is

 

5B > 5C > 3C xx 236D > d.5C > 6C > d.5C > 2C xx 214D~66B > sjC5 > 5C > jC1 > jC5 > j214B

 

dmg: 4010

 

do that for every single corner hitconfirm, omit d.5C > 6C and go straight for 6C if you hitconfirm with more 5C AND 2C or 2B

if you want a safejump, drop the combo at 214D~66B > jC5 and then IAD j2C.

try to drop the jC5 at the lowest possible height or they'll tech mid air depending on prororation

 

if you hitconfirm starting from 2A then do

 

2A > 5B > 5C > 3C xx 236D > d.6C > d.2C > jC5 > 5C > jC1 > jC5 > j214B

~2800

 

always jC1 > neutral jump jC5 > j214B if you want decent oki positioning

 

And what kind of oki?

[Blackwing55]

optimal corner meterless route is

 

5B > 5C > 3C xx 236D > d.5C > 6C > d.5C > 2C xx 214D~66B > sjC5 > 5C > jC1 > jC5 > j214B

 

dmg: 4010

 

do that for every single corner hitconfirm, omit d.5C > 6C and go straight for 6C if you hitconfirm with more 5C AND 2C or 2B

if you want a safejump, drop the combo at 214D~66B > jC5 and then IAD j2C.

try to drop the jC5 at the lowest possible height or they'll tech mid air depending on prororation

 

if you hitconfirm starting from 2A then do

 

2A > 5B > 5C > 3C xx 236D > d.6C > d.2C > jC5 > 5C > jC1 > jC5 > j214B

~2800

 

always jC1 > neutral jump jC5 > j214B if you want decent oki positioning

While checking my combo book I see that the 5B starter in the corner should be 4024 damage not 4010 and gives 28 heat. You probably missed a hit somewhere 5C not hitting twice or missing a j5C.

 

Also for the 5A combo I checked and you should be able to get 2950 in the corner aswell with 22 heat.

 

Both should be in the thread though your optimal corner combo might be under 5C before my optimal 5C corner combo. Though for a 5B, 3C, 2C (non-counterhit) the optimal combo probably is X-5C-3C- 236D d.5C 6C ect. For 2B, 5C,any sort of jump in (j2C j5C j5B) Comand grab their is a more optimal path of swapping sides to complete the combo. (they still end up in the corner because of 623D)

[Putin]

AA 5A > 5C > 4D > J.Gasshou > 66 5C > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren does 3k and should work on 1.1.

 

Apparently we can also do j.C5 > 66 5C > 2D miscreen which compensates for the slight damage loss across the board

 

Hazama nerfs2stronk ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Ourozama]

So the JPN ver got the patch first. It seems you've to opt out the jC before jC5 in some combo as your opponent seems to be able to tech just before the fifth jC hits. Probably the nerfed untech time doing its job here.

 

Also for Ressenga(S)>5C>3C>214D~B>5A>5C>2C>4D~D>jC>d.jC5>hiren ender works for 3081 dmg. I believed in the previous version you could squeeze in 7D after 4D but it doesn't work anymore since if you try to jump cancel the jC, you won't be able connect the d.JC5.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

So the JPN ver got the patch first. It seems you've to opt out the jC before jC5 in some combo as your opponent seems to be able to tech just before the fifth jC hits. Probably the nerfed untech time doing its job here.

 

Also for Ressenga(S)>5C>3C>214D~B>5A>5C>2C>4D~D>jC>d.jC5>hiren ender works for 3081 dmg. I believed in the previous version you could squeeze in 7D after 4D but it doesn't work anymore since if you try to jump cancel the jC, you won't be able connect the d.JC5.

 

Use jCx2 now. The new way they get hit upwards makes jCx2 > d.jCx5 way easier now, and it works pretty much anywhere you have enough proration now. So you can use it on chain angles we used to not be able to.

 

Adding 2C here makes the combo do 3223:

 

Ressenga (S) > dash 5C > 2C > 3C > 214D~66~B > 5A > 5C > 2C > 4D~D > jCx2 > jCx5 > Hiren 

[Ourozama]

Use jCx2 now. The new way they get hit upwards makes jCx2 > d.jCx5 way easier now, and it works pretty much anywhere you have enough proration now. So you can use it on chain angles we used to not be able to.

 

Adding 2C here makes the combo do 3223:

 

Ressenga (S) > dash 5C > 2C > 3C > 214D~66~B > 5A > 5C > 2C > 4D~D > jCx2 > jCx5 > Hiren 

 

That's great! Thanks!

 

-

Btw in case anyone was wondering, the jC loop is just jCCCC delay jC. I don't think jCC delay CC is applicable anymore... could be wrong though.

 

-

Ok I just tried the 1.0 corner Houtenjin combo 5C(2) > Houtenjin > 214D~C (S) > cross under 5C(2) > 6C > 5C(2) > 2C > Jakou > 5C(2) > 2C > jCx5 > Hiren

and problem is that the cpu just tech after the jCx4 or something. Can anyone kindly comment on this or am I doing it too slow?

 

I tried omitting some normals out and it seems that we need to use 5C(1) for the cross under or just before Jakou, and omit the last 5C:

 

5C(2) > Houtenjin > 214D~C (S) > cross under 5C(2) > 6C > 5C(1) > 2C > Jakou > 2C > jCx5 > Hiren. [5708 dmg]

or

5C(2) > Houtenjin > 214D~C (S) > cross under 5C(1) > 6C > 5C(2) > 2C > Jakou > 2C > jCx5 > Hiren. [5669 dmg]

 

6A starter gives [4330 dmg] and [4358 dmg] respectively so using 5C(2) first then 5C(1) seems the way to go.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Ourozama

[Putin]

Did anyone manage to pull off otg 5C > 2C > j.C5 > 5C pickup? I can do j.C5 > 5C off many things, such as Jakatsu Gasshou, but I haven't been able to get down the first route for the past half hour I've been trying things out.

 

I've got some possibly optimal combos off some stuff though, so I'll update in a few hours when I'm back home

[Strife]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you can't connect anything slower than a 5A/2A after 236C now? 

 

This is so sad, it seems we have to go for a S combo time with Gasaishou damage now.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Strife

[PlaneCrash]

so now that the patch is out.. what can he still do ? so stupid that he falls down way slower after using his C stuff in mid air..
 

[PozerWolf]

His converts seems weaker, which would explain a lot when watching vids. Interesting changes...

[Putin]

THIS POST'S BEEN EDITED A FEW TIMES FOR CORRECTIONS AND STUFF OK

 

 

Midscreen
 
5B > 5C > 3C > J.Gasshou > 66 5A > [5C > sj.C5] x2 > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren
3731 dmg, 25 meter

Off air confirms when you can dash in, use an extra 5C before 3C if possible and omit the 2D, e.g. j.B > 66 5B > 5C > 3C
 
AA 2C > 5C > 4D > J.Gasshou > sj.C5 >  5C > sj.C5 > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren
4224 dmg, 30 meter
 
Zaneiga > 66C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > J.Gasshou > sj.C5 > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren
4198 dmg, 31 meter
I'm not sure yet if the 66 5C > 2D part works off CH 5C/3C > Zaneiga, j.C5 > 5C itself is kinda weird, I've entountered the same problem in another combo below. The full combo works off FC 6B.
 
Zaneiga > (66) 5C > sj.C5 > 66 5C > 2D > J.Gasshou > Jakou > 66 5C > 2C > j.C1 > dj.C5 > Hiren
4327 dmg, 30 meter
Works off any CH into Zaneiga by ending with Jakou > 66  2C > sj.C5 > Hiren instead

 

FC Jakou > j.6D~D > 66A > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > max delay J.Gasshou > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > sj.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

4709 dmg, 39 meter
 
Backthrow > J.Gasshou > 66 5C > jC.5 > 5C > sj.B > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren
3702 dmg, 25 meter
 
Corner
 
5B > 5C > 3C > Jabaki > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > J.Gasshou > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren
3949 dmg, 30 meter.
Should work off everything other than jabs, Gasai and Ressenga. If you use one extra normal before 3C, go straight for 66C instead of 66 5C > 6C.
I was certain that the old double j.C route would work, but I haven't been able to pickup with 5C after Gasshou > sj.C5, so unless I'm doing something wrong the combo above should be the best one atm

You can also add a j.B in there but it doesn't always work and when it does, it's kinda unstable.
 
 
I've worked out some more stuff for me to use, but I won't post them since I'm pretty sure they're suboptimal, especially if otg 5C > 2C > sj.C5 > 5C is indeed possible.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

3C seems to now be a worthwhile hit.

 

So instead of the usual

 

5B>5C>Houtenjin

 

or 5C>Houtenjin

 

You can optimally add 3C for 5B>5C>3C>Houtenjin now, so confirming Houtenjin has never been easier.

 

You should still skip 5B when possible though, such as 5A>5C>3C>Houtenjin

 

 

However, Mizuchi seems to be the optimal route for 5A/Gasaishou confirm now, seeing as Hountenjin does practically nothing on it now.

 

3735

5A>5C>3C>214D~66B>5A>5C>2C>4D~A>jD~A>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

2592

Gasaishou>5A>5C>3C>214D~66B>5A>5C>2C>4D~A>jD~A>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

 

On the plus side, we have 100 meter combos now!

 

5101

5A>5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 6C>66 5C>2C>Jakou>Mizuchi. 5101 damage on a 5A with 100 meter is not bad at all.

 

4988

5D~D>j2C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 6C>66 5C>2C>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

6295

5B>5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 6C>66 5C>2C>6D~A>4D~A>jD~A>Jakou>Mizuchi

 

I'm sure there's probably a better route than this that uses a jC loop before the Jakou.

[PozerWolf]

What's a strong combo to do mid screen? I'm finding more damage midscreen than I am in the corner. What's wrong with me ;_;

[Strife]

What's a strong combo to do mid screen? I'm finding more damage midscreen than I am in the corner. What's wrong with me ;_;

 

Putin just listed some combos he found above. 

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Corner 5C/5B

5B: 3956

5B>5C>3C>Jabaki>66 5C>6C>66 5C>2C>4D>J.Gashou>66 5C>2D~D>jB>jCx2>jCx5>Hiren

 

5C: 4007

5C>3C>Jabaki>66 5C*>6C>66 5C>2C>4D>J.Gashou>66 5C>2D~D>jB>jCx2>jCx5>Hiren

*Note: At a lot of distances it's easier to do walk forward 5C instead, this will make the 4D hit them really low, which helps for the link after Gashou.

 

66 5C: 4273 with the gasaishou nerf you'll only ever get this on punish

66 5C>3C>Jabaki>66 crossunder>5C>6C>66 5C>2C>Jakou>66 5C>2C>4D~A>2D~D>jCx2>jCx5>Hiren

 

Use jCx1 for safety. jCx2 requires fastest possible execution.

 

Corner Houtenjin

 

5B: 5229

5B>5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 crossunder>5C>6C>66 5C>2C>delay Jakou>2C>tk Hiren

 

5C: 5670 (oh how the mighty have fallen)

5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 crossunder>5C>6C>66 5C>2C>delay Jakou>5C>2C>tk Hiren

[Blackwing55]

5C: 5670 (oh how the mighty have fallen)

5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 crossunder>5C>6C>66 5C>2C>delay Jakou>5C>2C>tk Hiren

Off of 5C you forgot to add a 4D to make it do 5774 damage and it gives 33 heat.

 

To be honest I haven't played much since the patch I can't do his mid-screen combo's yet but using overdrive you can get 5.5K

 

5C-3C-OD-d.5C-6D-GB-5C-5D-j.Gasshou-5C-2C-4D-j.8D-j5C(x7)

That gives 5.5K, 6460 damage if you use mizuki.

 

It will be awhile before I actually put up optimal combo's got to get used to the new jC timing's and trying other routes positions and theories.

[Ourozama]

For Midscreen Houtenjin, I saw Hasegawa (That blue Hazama) from gamechariot doing

 

6A > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > 6A > microdash 5C > 66 6C > 5C > 2C > 4D~A > j7D~D > jC > d.jCx5 [4000+ dmg]

 

You've to 6A at a certain height in order for mircodash 5C to connect I think. Will update after I double check.

[Mo the Hawk]

For Midscreen Houtenjin, I saw Hasegawa (That blue Hazama) from gamechariot doing

 

6A > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > 6A > microdash 5C > 66 6C > 5C > 2C > 4D~A > j7D~D > jC > d.jCx5 [4000+ dmg]

 

You've to 6A at a certain height in order for mircodash 5C to connect I think. Will update after I double check.

 

I tried the old Good Starter > Houtenjin > Zaneiga > 6A routes and I can only get the j.Cx5 to connect by omitting the j.7D. Otherwise they tech out after j.Cx1.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Off of 5C you forgot to add a 4D to make it do 5774 damage and it gives 33 heat.

 

Are you doing a microdash before 5C>2C>Jakou? Because if you don't you will put yourself in the corner. Doing so takes time though and it is making adding the 4D extremely unstable for me.

[Putin]

Hazama's combos are the definition of unstable now.

 

They succeeded in cutting down his damage via the Houtenjin and j.C float nerfs which is cool, but they just couldn't be sure if those would do the trick and decreased the hitstun on j.C as well, causing many combos to drop during the final j.C because you were a frame late in the whole combo. gg Pachi

[Ourozama]

I tried the old Good Starter > Houtenjin > Zaneiga > 6A routes and I can only get the j.Cx5 to connect by omitting the j.7D. Otherwise they tech out after j.Cx1.

 

Sorry my bad, I just tried it and the cpu either techs after j.Cx1 or j.C > j.Cx5 causing Hiren to whiff so you're right about omitting j.7D

 

Re-adjusted the route after watching the videos again. 6A > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > 6A > microdash 5C > 66 6C > 5C > 2C > 4D~A > jB > jC > d.jCx5 [4107]

 

Hazama's combos are the definition of unstable now.

 

They succeeded in cutting down his damage via the Houtenjin and j.C float nerfs which is cool, but they just couldn't be sure if those would do the trick and decreased the hitstun on j.C as well, causing many combos to drop during the final j.C because you were a frame late in the whole combo. gg Pachi

 

Agreed. To top it off, sometimes people mistimed J.Zaneiga and 50 heat is lost. You can always go for J.Gashokyaku but considering the dmg nerfs and such, you tend to lean towards route which gives more dmg.

[Dreizehn]

Hey everyone! I've been gathering up and sorting the combos you've all been posting on the last two pages that are confirmed to work on 1.1 for my own use. I figured it might help people looking around to have them all in one place, too, and might even save a little work for whoever updates the first post. A sincere thank you to everyone who has been posting here; I was running around like a headless chicken in training trying to figure out what to do after the patch before coming here.

 

Cheers!

MIDSCREEN

 

From <http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6188-cp-hazama-combo-theory-discussion-thread/page-3>

 

short starter

 

[50%Heat] 5A>5C>3C>214D~66B>5A>5C>2C>4D~A>jD~A>Jakou>Mizuchi Rekkazan

3735 dmg, ??? Meter

 

[100%Heat] 5A>5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 6C>66 5C>2C>Jakou>Mizuchi Rekkazan

5101 dmg, ??? Meter

 

Normal starter

 

5B > 5C > 3C > J.Gasshoukyaku > 66 5A > [5C > sj.C5] x2 > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.Cx2 > dj.Cx5 > Hirentotsu

3949 dmg, 25 meter

 

[100%Heat] 5B>5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 6C>66 5C>2C>6D~A>4D~A>jD~A>Jakou>Mizuchi Rekkazan

6295 dmg, ??? Meter

 

[50%Heat] 6A > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > 6A > 66 5C > 66 6C > 5C > 2C > 4D~A > j.B > j.C > dj.Cx5

4107 dmg, ??? Meter

 

[Level 1(2?) Overdrive + 25%Heat] 5C > 3C > OD Cancel > d.5C > 6D > GB > 5C > 5D > j.Gasshou > 5C > 2C > 4D > j.8D > j.Cx2 > dj.Cx5 > Hirentotsu

5500 dmg, ??? Meter

 

Ressenga (S) > dash 5C > 2C > 3C > 214D~66~B > 5A > 5C > 2C > 4D~D > jCx2 > jCx5 > Hirentotsu

3223 dmg, ??? Meter

 

Punish combo

 

[AntiAir] 5A > 5C > 4D > J.Gasshou > 66 5C > j.Cx2 > dj.Cx5 > Hirentotsu

~3K dmg, ??? meter

 

[AntiAir] 2C > 5C > 4D > J.Gasshou > sj.Cx5 >  5C > sj.Cx5 > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.Cx2 > dj.Cx5 > Hirentotsu

4224 dmg, 30 meter

 

Zaneiga > 66C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > J.Gasshou > sj.Cx5 > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.Cx2 > dj.Cx5 > Hirentotsu

4192 dmg, 31 meter

I'm not sure yet if the 66 5C > 2D part works off CH 5C/3C > Zaneiga, j.C5 > 5C itself is kinda weird, I've entountered the same problem in another combo below. The full combo works off FC 6B.

 

[Close to Corner] Zaneiga > (66) 5C > sj.Cx5 > 66 5C > 2D > J.Gasshou > Jakou > 66 5C > 2C > j.Cx1 > dj.Cx5 > Hirentotsu

4327 dmg, 30 meter

Works off any CH into Zaneiga by ending with Jakou > 66  2C > sj.C5 > Hiren instead.

 

Long distance

 

[100%Heat] 5D~D>j2C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 6C>66 5C>2C>Jakou>Mizuchi Rekkazan

 4988 dmg, ??? meter

 

[FatalCounter] Jakou > j.6D~D > 66A > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > max delay J.Gasshou > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > sj.B > j.Cx2 > dj.Cx5 > Hiren

4709 dmg, 39 meter

 

Throw and command grab

 

Backthrow > J.Gasshou > 66 5C > jCx5 > 5C > sj.B > j.Cx2 > dj.Cx5 > Hirentotsu

3702 dmg, 25 meter

 

Gasaishou>5A>5C>3C>214D~66B>5A>5C>2C>4D~A>jD~A>Jakou>Mizuchi Rekkazan

2592 dmg, ??? meter

 

CORNER

 

5B > 5C > 3C > Jabaki > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > J.Gasshoukyaku > 66 5C > 2D~D > j.Cx2 > dj.Cx5 > Hirentotsu

3949 dmg, 30 meter.

Should work off everything other than jabs, Gasai and Ressenga. If you use one extra normal before 3C, go straight for 66C instead of 66 5C > 6C.

I was certain that the old double j.C route would work, but I haven't been able to pickup with 5C after Gasshou > sj.C5, so unless I'm doing something wrong the combo above should be the best one atm

 

5B > 5C > 3C > Jabaki > 66 5C > 6C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > J.Gasshoukyaku > 66 5C > 2D~D > jB > jCx2 > jCx5 > Hirentotsu

3956 dmg, 31 meter.

 

[50%Heat] 5B>5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 crossunder>5C>6C>66 5C>2C>delay Jakou>2C>tk. Hirentotsu

5229 dmg, ??? meter.

 

[50%Heat] 5C>3C>Houtenjin>J.Zaneiga>66 crossunder>5C>6C>66 5C>2C>delay Jakou>5C>2C>tk. Hirentotsu

5670 dmg, 33 meter.

 

[Blackwing55]

Are you doing a microdash before 5C>2C>Jakou? Because if you don't you will put yourself in the corner. Doing so takes time though and it is making adding the 4D extremely unstable for me.

All I'm doing is a small 6 movement after the 6C before the 4D chain and then you put them in the corner. Also I found out that when you are doing 5C-2C-j214B in combo's you can do 5C-2C-2DD-j214B in combo's it adds damage. For instance that 5.7K jiyaku do 5.9K instead. (slightly worse oki than if you just went 5C-2C into j214B so the trade off is your choice you'll still be able to hit them if they try and roll under you.)

 

Doing a micro dash after the 6C makes you have to wait a second before you make the rest of the connections otherwise you will hit with the short chain making them tech out.

[Blackwing55]

Dreizehn anytime you are going from 5C-2C- jakou- mizuchi you can probably go 5C-2C-4D-jakou-mizuchi just to add a tad more damage.

 

On the 100 heat 5D combo though you can do 5D-j2C-5C-Houtenjin-J.Zaneiga-6C-5C-2C-4D-jakou as an example nets you 5175 instead of 4988 damage.