[CP] Hazama Gameplay Discussion [New members read first post]

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I find it easier to do 214D instantly after Houtenjin, wait for half a second or something, then proceed to 66~C. You must also let the command dash go forward quite a bit, don't mash C after 66

Pretty much this, you'll get a feel for it after a while. The most essential bit is not doing C immediately after 66.

[Justice7541]

Wait till they're completely offscreen, do 214c~66, wait till they drop past the hit counter then press c. Works every time.

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[Justice7541]

Anyone else notice that Noel's neutral hopping animation makes her go clean through Hazama's 6A? It just goes right through her even at point blank. Very lol.

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[Putin]

I noticed it a few days ago in the lab, I was like wtf but didn't care enough to look into it. I hope it doesn't come back to haunt me in actual matches D:

[Justice7541]

If the opponent is just idling through your overhead he's probably trolling you anyway. People are telling me that Hazama has straight invul when adjusting his tie or something too.

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[beanwich]

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the thread.

[LionHeartx]

Yep Happy Thanksgiving to everyone who made the right choice and decided to stick with the true king.

[Putin]

No chains, no party.

I'm also pretty sure that many users tried to defect, but came back once they realized Terumi's pretty mediocre. tiers pls

[Blackwing55]

How's the jin hazama match up in bbcp? For me it seems that it is slightly favoured since jin has really good tools to deal with hazama's pressure and keeping him out while hazama has a tough time with kind pressure due to the lack of options.

[beanwich]

Yep Happy Thanksgiving to everyone who made the right choice and decided to stick with the true king.

Wow, you guys actually kept my "Happy Thanksgiving" message in here instead of deleting it, that's pretty nice! Thanks guys. Most of the other threads I posted my "Happy Thanksgiving" message on was promptly ignored and deleted.

It's nice to see you guys actually care about nice holiday greetings and aren't completely obsessed with deleting every slightly off-topic post. It's a national holiday, and they won't even acknowledge it. Again, thanks for showing some holiday spirit.

[AMB Bakery]

As long as the shitposting/spamming is kept to a minimum and doesn't pile on and start cluttering the thread, it's fine. If it gets really out of hand, I'll bring down the hammer cos that's my job, but otherwise I'll just leave friendly reminders. For example:

How's the jin hazama match up in bbcp? For me it seems that it is slightly favoured since jin has really good tools to deal with hazama's pressure and keeping him out while hazama has a tough time with kind pressure due to the lack of options.

A friendly reminder that there are matchup subforums for each characters. I'll give you a brief answer/opinion, but in the future please take matchup discussion to their respective matchup threads. Though, if you want to talk about specific gameplay aspects of Hazama that may include techniques geared towards dealing with certain matchups, I suppose that's fine to post here as long as the focus is on gameplay/strategy/mechanics first as opposed to evaluation focused on fighting one character.

Dealing with reversals is more of a player skill issue than anything. You're just going to have to work your pressure game around educated guesses of when they'll do a reversal. Backwards Jakatsu is a pretty nice addition to Hazama's toolset to aid in dealing with reversals during both pressure and wake-up.

As for the neutral game vs. Jin, Hazama wins pretty convincingly. Jin's normals are great versus characters that only have traditional movement options or characters that lack zoning tools, but Hazama has both of those. At max range, Jin has nothing to threaten you with, and Hazama has chains that cover many angles and movement follow-ups to those chains that allow him to cover even more space. A good ~B follow-up should bait/avoid his anti-airs cleanly. He does beat you at mid-range pretty easily, so you should do whatever you can to either get close enough to AA or begin an offensive or move out of his effective range in whatever way you can. Hazama also takes the cake on reversals. You get 4k or more off reversal super, and if he gets cocky with some kind of gap in his pressure like 6B or doing 2D after barrier push-out, you can easily react and punish because of how fast 236236B is.

[Justice7541]

Jin can match Hazama on reversal damage too. CH C DP, D DP into corner or D DP into D Icecar = all your health. His DP is also way less telegraphed due to lack of superflash and has a better hitbox. Not to mention he has better safe pressure options overall so when it comes to your pressure vs. his he will likely be getting more reversals than you.

At range is where your real advantage is since Jin needs to commit meter on reaction to a chain to punish your zoning, I honestly would not try to play a neutral game against Jin at his own distances (close to mid range) unless I already have momentum in some way. Hazama has really good close range options but so does Jin and he has more tools overall.

[Justice7541]

Btw I just looked at the official changes and it looks pretty incomplete? Just a few omissions I noted, not complete at all:

5C:

- No longer jump cancelable on block

- Floats lower on hit

j.C:

- Less delay between hits (full mash string completes faster)

3C:

- No longer vacuums on counterhit.

Stance dash (214~66 or 44)

- New follow-up to stance. Dashes forward or back. Can be cancelled into other follow-ups, continues charging while dashing.

Jakou:

- Slides down on hit midscreen. Wallbounces in corner.

- Fatal counters, wallbounces on fc

Gasshoukyaku:

- 66~B variant retains forward momentum during the flip

- Uncharged version has a regular low float on hit, long untech time. Emergency techable.

- Charged version hits twice, higher launch.

- Hitbox nerfed, loses to low profile moves now

Jayoku Houtenjin:

- Lower P1, dunno exactly how much

Stomp super (I forget the name):

- Command grab follow-up to stance. Slides forward and grabs. Invul startup, deals about 2.5k.

[_Sey]

Some safejumps I've been testing/found watching jp vids.

Midscreen:

end your combo with tk.Hiren > 5D~D > j.A.

it will hit (lv1 chain, can special cancel into stance for h/l mixup) forward roll (and if they aren't ready to air tech asap you'll blue beat ~D j.A and can get a bit more damage/set it up again?)

it will hit (lv5 chain) backdash, backward roll, neutral roll

safejumps any dp/invincible dd except for mu's dp/super armor reversals

example: 2A 5C 3C 214D~66B d.5A 5C jCx5 d.5C 2C tk.j214B

it's about ~300 damage less than doing x2 chain or 5C jC5 j214B, going by memory so it may be a bit more/less

Corner:

drop your combo early at jC5 and iad j2C

will hit any roll, can buffer anything to cover/meaty late neutral tech

safejumps anything

this setup is very proration specific to setup, easiest way to test it is:

5B 5C 3C 236D d.6C d.5C 2C 4D xx 214D~66B sj.C5

~500 damage loss compared to the "best" route

I honestly don't feel like the corner one is usually worth it, mostly because if you end your combos right ( whiff 2B > dash w/e ) is already a strong setup that, because of the distance you end up at, makes anyone wary of trying to reversal on wakeup, unless they wanna risk not even being able to RC their DP, should be pretty good against Hakumen though.

On the other hand I really like the midscreen one because you generally won't be able to corner carry off a 2A hitconfirm anyway, so may as well go for a stronger setup (and once people start to respect it you get to setup a really fast high/low mixup with jA/land 2B).

Edited December 9, 2013 by _Sey

[Putin]

Isn't 2B whiff > whatever mashable though?

I never really messed with 2B in general since I did other shit in CSEX after corner Gasshou ender (RIP in piece baby ;_;7), and I made do with 2A mash until now in CP.

I do need more variety though, so I thought I'd like to know more about this 2B thingy.

[Mo the Hawk]

Some safejumps I've been testing/found watching jp vids.

Midscreen:

end your combo with tk.Hiren > 5D~D > j.A.

it will hit (lv1 chain, can special cancel into stance for h/l mixup) forward roll (and if they aren't ready to air tech asap you'll blue beat ~D j.A and can get a bit more damage/set it up again?)

it will hit (lv5 chain) backdash, backward roll, neutral roll

safejumps any dp/invincible dd except for mu's dp/super armor reversals

example: 2A 5C 3C 214D~66B d.5A 5C jCx5 d.5C 2C tk.j214B

it's about ~300 damage less than doing x2 chain or 5C jC5 j214B, going by memory so it may be a bit more/less

How do you actually catch people back rolling with 5D? I've tried several times on the training dummy but he always recovers in time to block.

[_Sey]

How do you actually catch people back rolling with 5D? I've tried several times on the training dummy but he always recovers in time to block.

oops, my bad, you can't really catch back rolls unless you have the other guy in the corner (which kind of makes the option moot)

@Putin

hmm, the setup isn't really mashable if you do whiff 2B dash 2A/5B fast enough, some 2A may be able to mash or trade with it though, but then you could just do whiff 2B > 2B/5B/5C/3C/632146DD to catch people mashing.

I think the setup is pretty much the best Hazama can setup in the corner (just watch any Mitsurugi or Noze vid and you'll notice them always ending combos with 8jC5 just to be able to set it up), it's obviously not super strong but it works well once you have people respect your game.

It lets you punish rolls/dps/mashing for a lot of damage while also giving you the ability to dash in and mixup with w/e (2B whiff 632146DD will beat anything on neutral tech as long as they don't wake up > jump or they have an airborne reversal).

You can still do 2A oki if you end up too close to the corner though, but in those situation another cool option Hazama has is hountejin OS barrier, 214214~A, this will catch rolls while keeping you safe from reversals, you can also go for Hountejin OS 5B if you feel like it.

Just watch that A-cho tournament where Mitsurugi reverse OCVs the taokaka team, he was often buffering this OS whenever he cornered someone.

[Mo the Hawk]

Do we have anything better than dash 2B > buffer into 5C > confirm into awkward air combo for catching back rollers after a close Ressenga knockdown?

[Guymam]

Hotenjin. Other than that, not really.

[beanwich]

Stomp super (I forget the name):

- Command grab follow-up to stance. Slides forward and grabs. Invul startup, deals about 2.5k.

I think it's called Orochi Burensou.

[Guymam]

You know what's called Orochi Burensou?

This dick.

[beanwich]

You know what's called Orochi Burensou?

This dick.

What are you talking about?

[Mo the Hawk]

Speaking of Orochi, has anyone tried any setups for landing it while in OD to surprise people with a reset and get that nice juicy damage boost? So far all I've found while messing around is a way to catch neutral techers and mashers after a forward throw w/ max level OD:

Forward Throw > ODC (max lvl) > sj forward j.6D~D > 5C > j.C x5 > 66 5C > j.C x5 ... land on ground > 66 > 63214D6D

Do the last set of j.Cs fairly fast so they air tech before hitting the ground. If they're neutral teching, they'll air tech right above the ground, and if they're mashing when they recover, the invuln on Orochi will eat through that.

[beanwich]

Speaking of Orochi, has anyone tried any setups for landing it while in OD to surprise people with a reset and get that nice juicy damage boost? So far all I've found while messing around is a way to catch neutral techers and mashers after a forward throw w/ max level OD:

Forward Throw > ODC (max lvl) > sj forward j.6D~D > 5C > j.C x5 > 66 5C > j.C x5 ... land on ground > 66 > 63214D6D

Do the last set of j.Cs fairly fast so they air tech before hitting the ground. If they're neutral teching, they'll air tech right above the ground, and if they're mashing when they recover, the invuln on Orochi will eat through that.

That's a really good idea. I've been trying to find good ways to use Orochi but without the use of OD, it's not so easy, but I've found that it will of course go right through certain attacks when timed right. And like you stated, it's awesome to catch someone in surprise with it. I've found that it's also useful for when your opponent is in a corner, because they have less places to go and fewer chances of escape.

[Henjin]

You know what's called Orochi Burensou?

This dick.

Actually "Dick " is another name for Richard.

Speaking of Orochi, has anyone tried any setups for landing it while in OD to surprise people with a reset and get that nice juicy damage boost? So far all I've found while messing around is a way to catch neutral techers and mashers after a forward throw w/ max level OD:

Forward Throw > ODC (max lvl) > sj forward j.6D~D > 5C > j.C x5 > 66 5C > j.C x5 ... land on ground > 66 > 63214D6D

Do the last set of j.Cs fairly fast so they air tech before hitting the ground. If they're neutral teching, they'll air tech right above the ground, and if they're mashing when they recover, the invuln on Orochi will eat through that.

this seems like this is gonna take alot of heat. But it is a nice reset thoght.

Does anyone kno how to gain 50 heat after using 50 heat?

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