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[CP] Hazama Gameplay Discussion [New members read first post]

Favorite Hazama iteration?  

82 members have voted

  1. 1. Favorite Hazama iteration?

    • BB:CS
      7
    • BB:CS2
      12
    • BB:CSEX
      15
    • BB:CP
      23
    • ...CT...? Can dream.
      25


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Does the negative penalty thing mean that he's less likely to go into it? It says that his resistance to it will change from 2 to 4, so that makes sense and it's pretty good.

Backdash buff is also really nice, other than that there's nothing new here but the kinda meh Houtenjin and Mizuchi changes.

I really wish someone reported what does or doesn't work anymore, like how the Ragna boards got to know that it's possible to followup after Belial despite the changes to it.

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Does the negative penalty thing mean that he's less likely to go into it? It says that his resistance to it will change from 2 to 4, so that makes sense and it's pretty good.

Backdash buff is also really nice, other than that there's nothing new here but the kinda meh Houtenjin and Mizuchi changes.

I really wish someone reported what does or doesn't work anymore, like how the Ragna boards got to know that it's possible to followup after Belial despite the changes to it.

I don't think it's super hard to figure out from the notes:

1) j.C loop doesn't look like it'll work at all. It might work once in corner at most.

2) You're probably not getting anything off Ressenga other than like 2A 5B 3C 236D.

3) 5B probably still works off Gasaishou but not 5C.

4) Jayoku combos still the same but less damage.

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Why'd they have to nerf Houtenjin? It was the bread part of my bread and butter. :8/:

It was bound to happen to be honest, I'm just surprised it took this long. Hazama has always had great damage potential from a houtenjin confirm.

cmd grab combo time changed to 7 frames (it's in the notes above). you get 5a 2a or hotenjin

Lol

Edited by -Kid

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I think/hope that two j.C sets will still be possible off decent starters, if they're eliminated entirely then all of these changes are going to hurt Hazama really, really bad.

Which is weird. In CS2/CSEX he had shit meterless damage midscreen, burst damage with meter, and ok meterless damage in the corner which was fine.

In CP, the change in direction they wanted to take was obvious, since they improved his meterless damage all around the board, while significantly nerfing meter gain and his burst damage.

Now in CP2, they just nerfed both, and all that's left for us to see is just how bad it's gonna be.

He's probably gonna be ok, not top tier but solid A, however I'm not gonna like it if all of his combos turn out to be a simple, braindead and boring 4D/j.D~D > j.214B#

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It was bound to happen to be honest, I'm just surprised it took this long. Hazama has always had great damage potential from a houtenjin confirm.

That's true, I'm still not happy though.

Are these changes coming with the update that's supposed to come April? Or was it May?

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they buffed his midscreen and meterless damage but nerfed his damage off hountejin in CP, that was pretty cool and made him a bit more fun to play.

now they are nerfing both but giving him a longer backdash and rising his negative penality resistance.

asw just want him to be some trollish boring character both to play against as well as to play as.

even then I'd still like to see how bad the jC nerf is, just by looking at the frames I think we should still be able to do a bunch of loops still just by swapping 5C for 5B or 5A>5C.

214D~A nerf is w/e, we'll still get 214D~A 2A 5B 3C~ and be able to run oki somehow so it's fine, being able to combo off that on the whole cast was just dumb anyway

623D buff is cool but a bit useless in the current engine, good luck getting/having enough meter to waste off double super.

I really do not look forward playing vs Taokaka with shitty damage off anything though

whens cp2 relius/azrael

Edited by _Sey

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Lack of j.C loops will sadden me for another reason; they are surprisingly fun to do.

Before CP hit consoles, I loathed j.C loops and noone was using any other routes, so I made a vow to use them as little as possible.

But when I got the game and started practicing them... the delays, dash 5Cs and whatnot seemed really fun and not stupid at all.

I get that any more than 2 sets of j.C is too much (and not optimal in most cases, so meh), but removing them completely is just sad.

I also believe that they'll still be possible unless the combo's too prorated based on the new untech time, what's left to see is how increased the pushback is.

As I mentioned in some other post, they're probably eliminating multiple loops by making dash 5C/5B necessary every time, which when coupled with less hitstun won't make it possible to do in longer combos. I doubt the pushback's gonna be so severe that Haz can only end with Hiren afterwards.

Also, Gasai > 5A > 5C > 3C > J.Gasshou > 5A > 5C > 2C > 4D~A > j.D~D > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren does about 1600dmg lol, as opposed to the ~2.3k we can currently pull off. Didn't check the damage off double j.C because we don't know if it's gonna work :v:

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http://youtu.be/5-Nz-uWR-r8?t=15m6s

 

Loops are definitely possible to some extend. The knockback change doesn't really seem to affect horizontal pushback, but how low they drop between each hit.

I'm guessing that we won't be able to confirm into a full combo off skyhigh rogue confirms anymore which isn't that bad, and two sets of j.C should be possible off low confirms.

j.C > 66 5C > 6C is probably gone, along with j.C > 66 5C > 2C > 4D > J.Gasshou since they require a really low pickup with 5C and were pretty much what made midscreen confirms off decent starters into strong combos. Are midscreen AA 2C combos gone? :(

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The 3/22/2014 Urban Square 3on3 vids have got some pretty good Hazama footage. Hitotose be there too. Check it out on Jourdal's 15 Plus channel.

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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23170296

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzbi6dVWsvc

 

jC loops are still in, biggest loss is land d5C 6C midscreen route + overall slightly lower damage

5C leads to 3.7k, so 5B will still be 3+ or so, which is pretty good

my only hope is that these routes are universal and we don't end up with jC shooting plat/tao/bang/mak/carl too high or something

 

236C nerf is still dumb

negative penalty buff is dumb in a good way though

 

i'm pretty happy we got this video so early into the patch lol, those urban square videos were sooo bad

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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23170296

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzbi6dVWsvc

jC loops are still in, biggest loss is land d5C 6C midscreen route + overall slightly lower damage

5C leads to 3.7k, so 5B will still be 3+ or so, which is pretty good

my only hope is that these routes are universal and we don't end up with jC shooting plat/tao/bang/mak/carl too high or something

236C nerf is still dumb

negative penalty buff is dumb in a good way though

i'm pretty happy we got this video so early into the patch lol, those urban square videos were sooo bad

Thank goodness for this. Now I can dry my tears cause the dream isn't dead

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Old 6A > Houtenjin corner route minus a 5C and two j.Cs does like 600 less damage. :( Houtenjin nerf too strong

 

It's sad that low 5C pickups are gone as I mentioned in my previous post, not because of the slight damage loss, but because he won't have ANY other options than loops off many confirms now. Things are gonna get boring, and people are still going to rant about his "j.C mash" despite the lower damage they yield.

 

What I really want to see is what he gets off AA 5A > 5C now. He can probably pull off something like sj.C5 > 5C > (2C) > 4D > (j.D) > j.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren.

It won't break 3k, but we're still getting 2.5k or something.

 

Not really happy with how the changes turned out, since the nerfs didn't change much while potentially making him slightly less fun.

Maybe the current j.C coupled with a functioning Tk Hiren > 5C pickup with low enough SMP to allow a second legit Hiren ender would be the best choice. No loops whatsoever, but a mixture of one Zaneiga, one 6C, one Hiren filler, one Gasshou Jabaki and j.C.

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So atm im training this combo:

5B > 3C > 236236B xx dash 214D~66B xx dash 5C > j.C x 5 > dash 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.C x 5 > j.214B

 

I can do it no problems on Ragna, but I always drop it after the 1st j.C rep when I do it on Azrael. Do you have to delay the j.C's, or some other normal?

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It works fine on Azrael for me. The combo is suboptimal in many ways though, so I'd suggest you practice these instead:

 

5B > 3C > Houtenjin > J.Gasshou > 66 5C > sj.C5 > 66 5C > j.C4 > 5C > 2C > sj.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

5652 dmg, 22 meter for corner carry

 

5B > 3C > Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga > (6)6C > 66 5C > 2C > sj.C5 > (66) 5C > 2C > sj.C2 > dj.C5 > Hiren

5736 dmg, 25 meter.

 

For reference, your combo yields 5363 dmg and 21 meter.

There are obviously many other different routes based on where you are relatively to the corner, but you can do these two anywhere on the screen

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Whoever thinks Hazama is bad in cp 1.1.... you're mistaken. Don't get it twisted. Also never listen to Guymam.

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Hey guys.. I was thinking of getting into this game and maining Hazama. Usually one of the first things I do once I decide I like a character enough is look at that character's worse match ups. The basic principle is that if I kan handle my main's worse match ups, I kan handle anything.

 

So what are Hazama's worse match ups in your opinion? And most importantly, why?

 

Also, if any of you guys have a list of BnB's that would be great!

I'll check out the kombo thread tomorrow but with soo many kombo variations in this game, it's hard to tell what's optimal.. I do not kare about difficulty, but I do kare about optimization (oki, positioning, damage)...

 

PS: Is the first page of the kombo thread regularly updated?

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His only unfavourable matchups should be Valk and Tao, maybe Hakumen too. Pre-CP 1.1 Kokonoe is a given

The first two have better mobility than him giving them more control in neutral while also making it easy for them to avoid chains. They also have amazing pressure on top of that, while Haz barely has any defensive options.

Hakumen is stupid and can cut chains

Pre-CP 1.1 Koko is also a bad matchup but for everyone in the roster

 

The OP in the combo thread is ridiculously outdated, there are plenty of optimal combos scattered around in the thread though or even in other threads so it's gonna be tough for you.

1.1 patch is coming soon though and about half of the current combos will be obsolete, so don't sweat it. Be sure to practice 3C > 214D~66B > 66 5A and j.C loops without bothering with optimization, by the time you get them down the patch could be out with new optimal stuff to learn. Both of these persist in the new version to an extent so it won't be wasted time

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