Jump to content
Lich

[CP] Hazama Gameplay Discussion [New members read first post]

Favorite Hazama iteration?  

82 members have voted

  1. 1. Favorite Hazama iteration?

    • BB:CS
      7
    • BB:CS2
      12
    • BB:CSEX
      15
    • BB:CP
      23
    • ...CT...? Can dream.
      25


Recommended Posts

I think the main problem is that Hazama no longer has a reliable way to reset pressure. Jin and Terumi have 6B, and the majority of the cast has some sort of special move they can use (Dead Spike, Gustav Buster, Kagura's charge orbs, etc). Hazama's only option before was to use his stance overhead, which now knocks down the opponent. On top of that, Hazama has to be nearly point blank to confirm into meterless damage where as most of the cast just needs a crouch confirm.

 

Also, back to the topic of spacing out Hazama, what do you guys do about barrier blockers? Theoretically, you should be able to spam stagger pressure and stance overhead to stay on them but it's not all that reliable since Hazama might end up whiffing a normal and give the opponent a chance to escape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the main problem is that Hazama no longer has a reliable way to reset pressure. Jin and Terumi have 6B, and the majority of the cast has some sort of special move they can use (Dead Spike, Gustav Buster, Kagura's charge orbs, etc). Hazama's only option before was to use his stance overhead, which now knocks down the opponent. On top of that, Hazama has to be nearly point blank to confirm into meterless damage where as most of the cast just needs a crouch confirm.

 

Also, back to the topic of spacing out Hazama, what do you guys do about barrier blockers? Theoretically, you should be able to spam stagger pressure and stance overhead to stay on them but it's not all that reliable since Hazama might end up whiffing a normal and give the opponent a chance to escape.

2A and 5B are (and were) much better than 214D~A for resetting pressure, as I've already wrote before, long blockstrings are useless, KISS and just throw/tick throw a lot!

Hazama's pressure tools are very strong only when you start throwing a lot and people are forced to learn to deal with them somehow (OSs etc.), that's pretty much why asw has never given him a meterless comboable overhead and also why upback is a nightmare to deal with.

 

I'm pretty sure most Jin players would love to have a +2 5B and not having to rely on 6B to reset pressure, same goes for most of the cast... except Taokaka, fuck that character.

 

with the buff to barrier pushblock it can definitely be pretty annoying to deal with people that abuse barrier, what you want to establish is whether they are just holding barrier, mashing on 1ABC or they actually know what they are doing.

just holding barrier randomly -> command throw, throw, 214D~A

mashing on 1ABC -> purple throw a lot

they know what they are doing -> keep it short and try to understand how they like to use throw OS / fuzzy OS / do they have a 6f 2A and they know how to IB 5B? / can you use 5A in pressure (Relius/Hakumen/Tager)? / etc. pretty much what I've wrote a couple posts ago.

oh, also use his CT (sparingly), it's quite +on block and leads to solid damage on hit.

 

As for 214D~A in CP1.1, I'll gladly take a knockdown over "resetting pressure" or comboing into d.2A for no damage.

Comboable 214D~A in CP1.0 was pretty cheap, Hazama never needed it anyway, a buff to his command throw would have been welcome though... I still have fond memories of grabbing Litchi out of her Tsubame in CS1/2 :(

 

I'm a scrub yet even I can tell that CP2 Hazama is pretty strong, yay for consistent combos.

Honestly the only thing I truly wanted for CP2 Haz was a slight damage buff to hountejin... barely breaking 4k off 6A is pretty sad, I understand why they nerfed it in CP1.1 but nerfing only his jC would have been enough to tone down his damage, CP1.1 Haz ended up still being a good character but also the most boring version of Hazama yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing about 2A and 5B is that they are so early in pressure. You don't get much of a chance to actually recognize the situation and adjust accordingly. As a Jin main myself I actually prefer having 6B for resetting pressure. I feel like I have more options with 6B since it can gattling off of almost anything letting me confirm better and it works as a gap closer (not sure why you hating on my girl Tao though). I feel like having the knockdown with the overhead doesn't help anything. Sure, you've made the opponent guess wrong, but now you've given them a chance to roll away or dragon punch. At least before you were able to keep them in a vortex and teach them block high so that you could use Zaniega for real damage (Hate that nerf as well BTW). They also need to buff his command grab. Why the hell did they nerf it in the first place? 2k was the best you could do before without meter, now it's even less. I get that's it's basically a free combo but unless you're using it to beat a move or finish someone off, I can;t imagine it helping anything. It's like opening your opponent up to tickle them. It seems to mostly come out just to mess up my jump loops (at least that'll be less of a problem in 2.0) And I feel that 4k off of 6A is decent since it works everywhere on screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I'm kind of new to Hazama (recently got BBCSE in PC, so why not give it a try), and I have quite a hard time playing him since his normal's range are so short

anw what type of strategy should I use with Hazama, how to use his Drive properly and how to deal with Noel spamming Chain Revoler (his mid screen potential is kind of bad, I think)

and some BnB combo for him, maybe

thanks in advance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hazama is amazing both in fullscreen and point blank, but can't really do that much in the middle area so just avoid it.

If you find your self in that position just try to escape by jumping and doing an instant j.6DD to go back to harassing with chains until they make a mistake and let you close in.

Here's an old guide to chains, there's obviously much more to it and it's not perfect but you should at least get the gist of it

When you're in their face, you can go ham all day with your amazing normals. Many are safe, if not plus, and you have three jcable on block moves instead of one on CP. So you can frametrap mashers with plus moves and/or late gatlings and staggers (dash 2A, dash 5B), go for iad j.2C crossups after 5B 5C and 2C, and of course mix them up once they start respecting you. You have a great overhead and you pretty much always have meter to cancel it into Houtenjin in csex, a really good command throw that can net you 4k with 50 meter which you get back by the end of the combo, and the stance mixup which you shouldn't abuse. It's easily mashable, but you should obviously use it every now and then since it leads into an overhead that's plus on block, and a relatively safe low with ridiculous reward. His throw game's also good when you have meter or when they're in the corner where you can combo afterwards. Air throws are amazing when zipping across the screen since you just appear in front of them mid air and grab them, very hard to tech. It also leads to good damage and nets you a shit ton of meter.

 

Noel's D mash should only get you if she's mashing 4D since it has invul, but it loses to lows so just 2B her on wakeup or 3C when you're further away for a nice CH punish into Zaneiga.

There's also a csex combo thread in the archives, even though it might be outdated even now. That's the curse of the Hazama subforums :eng101:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks man

I've been struggled a lot with Hazama (especially with Noel match-up)

Oh, and how's the CSEX Hazama's Combo thread is the curse of this subforum? I still dont quite get it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The curse is our combos always change so much with each iteration that extend combos are basically useless. I think.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me correct my self.

 

It's the Hazama curse, not specifically the Hazama subforum's curse.

There's like no Hazama which does optimal combos in actual matches, not even top Japanese players. Even the stuff you see in combo videos can usually be further optimized.

I guess nobody cares about optimal damage because Hazama's really good either way, therefore they don't bother. Very few people bother updating the combo threads here as well, presumably for the same reason.

 

If you played CP you'd have to go through 150+ posts to dig out some remotely optimal combos; the OP hasn't been updated since before console release and the game's also been updated once lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it's because... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

 

H

a

z

a

m

a

 

s

u

c

k

s

Burn the non believer!

 

Let me correct my self.

 

It's the Hazama curse, not specifically the Hazama subforum's curse.

There's like no Hazama which does optimal combos in actual matches, not even top Japanese players. Even the stuff you see in combo videos can usually be further optimized.

I guess nobody cares about optimal damage because Hazama's really good either way, therefore they don't bother. Very few people bother updating the combo threads here as well, presumably for the same reason.

 

If you played CP you'd have to go through 150+ posts to dig out some remotely optimal combos; the OP hasn't been updated since before console release and the game's also been updated once lol

Optimal hazama combos are basically adding a J.C or a J.B here or there to get that extra 20 damage. A lot of the times it's not worth it. I love optimal combos more than the next guy but as long as I reach my benchmark on his confirms I'm good. If you're referring to combo routes, even doing the optimal combo routes don't do much more than the easy ones. I still go for them just because I enjoy the damages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no

 

I'm talking about like 200 damage difference which is a pretty big deal in the 2.5-4k range lol, and I'm not talking about weird situational and unstable routes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it's because... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

 

H

a

z

a

m

a

 

s

u

c

k

s

 

Why are you here?  Also, burn the non-believer!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I hate to ask this, but I'm trying to get good with Hazama in a relatively short time period for an upcoming tourney.

I played him back in cs1/2 days and those were fun days... But now I want to re-up my game.

 

I remember when this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tayKEWE0beI%C2"'> came out, and was wondering if these combos are still your basic go-to's covering most situations or if there are better combo/tech vids. Reading earlier posts and trying to go through the mis-match of information is a bit redundant if currently there are more organized or compiled resources I can absorb.

 

Any tricks/gimmicks you guys have offhand would be lovely as well, right now all I know is tick 63214D6D; which is pretty fantastic.

Thankss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ay, does anyone have ideas for a good mix up with this guy. When my opponent is blocking and waiting for a falling fang or scooping fang i try to do something different but when i cant think of anything i do it anyway and the the tables are turned. I wanna go for a venom fang but it still catches block string. Basically, i just wanna bait out a DP when ever i get trapped in this loop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've recently learned the magic of chain mix ups with hazama. If your opponent is actually respecting you chain mix ups will f them up. For example:

2C, jc, j.2DD, 2B (Jump into low).

5B, 2C, jc, j.2DC (cross up. even works in corner)

5C or 2C, 6DB, j.2C (whether this is an overhead or a cross up overhead depends on how far you send the chain. Only works on crouching)

5C or 2C, 5DD, j.2DD (the most swag mix up in all of bb. Do it really fast for a cross up onto damn near any combo)

Of course, you could just throw people but that's not swag enough.

Also, if people dp you when you go into stance just backdash. Come back in with the overhead to close the distance if they sat still like a good little boy or use the scoop if they dp and get that 4k.

Lastyly, to dirty magic, there is no such thing as getting good with hazama in a short amount of time. This character takes work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who are the top Hazama players, both Japanese and American?

Looking for some players to study from 1.1 CP footage.

On the American side we have Lich-senpai. He's the only one of us to actually do anything anymore. And for JP we've got Mitsurugi the God and Noze. Both very strong Hazama players.

I should also mention that big daddy Lich wasn't playing much Hazama in 1.1 but he said he would be playing him more in CPEX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone got a good idea of how to stop people who are good at running in at you? Some people are good at carefully jumping over or staying above the range of the chains and I want something more than just wait for their approach and hope I anti-air in time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe its because most of us are waiting to get their hands on the actual game and not waste people's time asking why nobody posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone got a good idea of how to stop people who are good at running in at you? Some people are good at carefully jumping over or staying above the range of the chains and I want something more than just wait for their approach and hope I anti-air in time.

Restrict their air dash by using 6d. First, at a far enough range, fake a 5d (5d-a) then use 6d.

Rising fang is good as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys, I have a few question (mainly in CSE ver. since I dont own a console, just a crappy laptop)

1. what is Hazama neutral game? like how he can approach, score a knockdown and then deal damage?

2. Does he rely on frame trap?

3. what can beat reversal Jayoku Houtenjin and what not?

4. I saw in the wiki that he has both zoning and rush down play style, so which one is best or is it depend on match-up?

Thanks in advance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hazama for dummies guide was made for questions like this.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5269-cse-beginners-guide-to-being-a-snake-hazama-for-dummies-bring-your-balisongs-v21/

He doesn't need to rely on frame traps but having safe pressure is great ain't it?
Not much BEATS Houtenjin but lots can trade hits with it, sux.
With play style it really depends on a match-to-match basis.
Get use to both of them to change on the fly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×