[CP] Hazama Gameplay Discussion [New members read first post]

[sqaresqall]

Any tips on how to effectively move around the screen with chains? On how to approach without getting anti aired? I've been playing around with Hazama for about a week and I feel at this point I have a basic grasp on his combos, but movement is a completely different animal.

[Sadeyo]

Thanks for the advice but grasping Hazama new technology is like telling me to practice Hirentotsu loops when they were essential in extend, I won't say 'I won't use them' but expect me practice them and see if I can apply them in the next session. Reverse gatlings were never my thing it kind of irked me seeing it applied in CS2 and so forth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNPZQPvPDlo&list=UUSWFwW7yDCCwwajY97IaZ3w#t=02m55s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfVeNkDuw34&feature=c4-overview&list=UUSWFwW7yDCCwwajY97IaZ3w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In3gYTzIpX0&list=UUSWFwW7yDCCwwajY97IaZ3w#t=03m41s

The last of the videos for the week. There might be some audio sync issue and possibly video movement, looking into that issue as we speak.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Sadeyo

[Sadeyo]

Any tips on how to effectively move around the screen with chains? On how to approach without getting anti aired? I've been playing around with Hazama for about a week and I feel at this point I have a basic grasp on his combos, but movement is a completely different animal.

To tell you the truth learning the chains is like a experiment on their own and I don't blame you if you're having a hard time to grasp them. Truth be told I didn't quite learn mine effectively until I had them beaten into me for a bit and that's after hours of sitting in the lab. What you should know is that you'll gain one stock of chain anywhere on the screen as long as it hits the opponent (fly all day), you can chain-cancel mid-flight by pressing 'd' before reaching the opponent and 'd' once again to bait anti-airs, dps, or foolish mistakes and capitalize on that with cross-ups or confirms. Lastly would be the 'hook', the greater the distance your chain has to cover the longer the foe is stunned and on confirm you sling yourself in for pressure or confirm.

Hopefully this helps because it's how I treat my Hazama in various matches.

[-Kid]

Stuff

On top of all the stuff I said earlier, there are just a few things I'd like to add:

- Ragna's ground bloodscythe is positive on block, so you really don't want to be mashing once you've blocked it, especially given the fact that his normals far out range yours (Hazama 3C could contest but its not a good idea to use that after having blocked BS). The push back on ground bloodscythe positions Ragna in the best way to get a 5B/5C CH should you be mashing buttons. At that range your normals will most whiff.

- There was one thing you did in one of the videos (can't remember which one) where you used an air chain CH followup into Houtenjin, which was pretty good hit confirm. Overall though, I think you could work a bit on your hit confirm. There are several times where I witnessed you throwing 2B in combos when you could have gone straight into 5B > 3C for example. There were also times where you got a 2B hit but didn't confirm a combo and instead went into 214D~A.

- Personally, I think your chain movements could be a little more ambiguous and seem to be a bit predictable. For example, you got anti-aired quite a few times against that amane (tbh you should have actually been anti-aired more, if the amane was more competent). More B/C chain followups are good to use once in a while. Personally my favourite movement is j.4D~immediate D followup, which can cross up at the right distance. Use varying chain movements to throw the opponent off and be less predictable. Also when you throw a chain out, don't feel as though you have an obligation to use a follow up. Try and use mind games and make your opponent guess when you'll approach.

- Lastly, I think you could do a bit more to catch your opponent when pressuring them. You aren't really making use of Hazama all of hazama's tools (frametraps, command grab, tick throws). Your main mixup seems to come from stance overheads and lows, which is not reliable at all. It is good to use that once in a while, but I just feel as though you could just be doing more to pressure your opponent. 2C jump cancels are pretty good too.

[744Dante]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhPXP-VB2Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC2ratIUnBk

Two sets I had saved up and decided to upload it. I really want to improve my Hazama so any criticism will do wonders for me

[MattyD315]

Hey guys I have a couple things I could use some help with.

1.) I am having some trouble getting the 214D~C followup to Houtenjin. I only get it about 70% of the time, which is causing me to doubt myself and just avoid it and go for the easy backstep 623D which is lame. I just cant seem to figure out the timing of this at all, like when you should go into stance and when to hit C. When I do it I can NEVER get the powered up version to come out, I'm usually so close to missing the link I have 0 spare time. But I see online most people hit that link all day with the powered up version. I was wondering if you guys had any tips to kind help me make sense of the link so I can work it into my game. And something a bit more specific than training mode, as I spent hours the last few days there with no results. I know it will take practice but practicing the wrong thing cant help any lol.

2.) This one is based off of say "OTG > 5C > 2C > 6D~A > 4D~A > Jump 8D~A > 623D" I am struggling a bit with this. On its own I have no problems getting this one off but after Houtenjin > Devouring Fang > 6C > Dash > .... I simply can not get this to link on Bang. He just techs the 8D every time. So annoying. But I LOVE the way this combo looks, especially with Mizuchi added at the end. Is this a combo that I should be able to use regularly, the triple chain retraction to 623D? Or is it just a situational junk combo that I should just avoid and stick with a simpler version omitting the jump chain?

[Putin]

For Houtenjin > J.Zaneiga just do 214D asap, wait a bit, press 66 and let most if not all of the dash come out, press C.

Maybe someone has figured out some visual cues on it, unfortunately I got nothing. Anything else I try though ends up in a late lvl2 Zaneiga whiffing, or a lvl1 working and you don't want to be in any of these situations.

You'll figure out for your self that the time is pretty lenient however, since even when you get a lvl2 it often launches them at different heights, which sometimes makes 66C cross under afterwards. That's not a problem though since you never actually need to dash 6C, it just means that you don't have to be spot-on for Zaneiga lvl2 to work.

For the second question you might want to try doing j.7D~A if the j.8D version connects but doesn't bite. I know we had to do j.7D on most characters in CS2 when it was necessary for the relaunch combos, I never use this route in CP however so I can't tell for sure whether something changed or not.

EDIT: I just noticed that you can't get it after Houtenjin. If you're attempting it after raw Houtenjin or after shittonofnormals > Houtenjin, then it's due to hitstun deterioration and/or the combo timer. You should be able to get it after a couple of normals into Houtenjin, I'll need to test whether it works after three. I wouldn't even use Houtenjin if I did more than three normals prior to it unless I knew it was gonna kill.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Putin

[MattyD315]

You said houtenjin > j.zanegiea? Im not really understanding ypur steps, youll have to forgive me. The way ive been inputting it is "236236B > 66 > 214D-C > stuff" so there is a way to split the commands up for this? Like buffer the 214d then dash then c? Or am i reading this wrong lol. And what do you mean j.zangeia? Forgive the ignorance.

Ive been going at his challenge 12 for days now. I have every part seperatly perfect. Just cant get that j.8d. Could it be because my zangiea is only lvl 1 and not creating enough stun? Its the only thing i can think of..

Edited January 30, 2014 by MattyD315

[Putin]

I assumed you're playing CP, I meant Jakatsu Zaneiga which stands for 214D~66C and doesn't exist in any past iterations.

If you're playing CS2 or CSEX, then you're doing it the right way but probably a tad too slow.

For your second question, my answer would stay the same for the past versions as well if you excluded the combo timer part which is a CP only thing.

[MattyD315]

Oh sorry I should have specified im playing cse. Its such a pain im now to the point where i can get a lvl 1 every time ofter houtdnjin but not lvl 2

Edit. Wow i guess it just clicked. I could start dashing a bit sooner than i thought. I think i gpt it. Thanks for the help!

Edited January 30, 2014 by MattyD315

[Putin]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22433928

6B's the best and most underused move ever, this is justice. Also delicious nico framerate

[Fame96]

Complete patch notes.

http://shoryuken.com/2014/02/13/arc-system-works-releases-changelist-for-upcoming-blazblue-chronophantasma-balance-patch/

[Mo the Hawk]

Less reps of j.C loops, makes sense. I hope that decreased untech time doesn't affect his air-to-air confirms though - it was mondo coolio to confirm some j.As into some j.Cs that floated Haz back down to the ground for a re-launch. And Jakou > Mizuchi is pretty much always a valid combo ender now which is cool.

"Decreased combo starter time" - what exactly does that mean? What are they doing to my Super Snake Kick? D:

[Fame96]

They mean there is less damage potental off of raw super snake kick.

[Putin]

Overdrive Drive Attacks – Long range version hits now deal less damage, but short range versions now deal the same damage as long range versions.

I wonder if this'll make current OD combos obsolete, so they won't be chains xN but a combination of "normal" routes and less chains?

His OD was never that good, so I didn't expect them to nerf it. Not really worried about it though.

All Jump C Attacks – Decreased untechable time, adjusted the air knockback.

Pls don't take away midscreen j.C > 66 5C > 6C, I love that thing. Other than that, I wonder how bad it'll hurt his combos.

I'm guessing the lessened untech time and extra knockback will make j.C > 66 5C necessary, so near the end of long combos we won't be able to make the dashing 5C work or something.

Bloody Fangs – Decreased the time for follow ups after a successful throw.

If they decrease the time by only one frame we'll still be able to link 5C afterwards, but it will be easier to mess up. If they decrease it more, I hope it's not more than 2-3 frames so 5B will work instead.

Houtenjin combo time is not really an issue, unless we can only follow it up with Jakou. Still, not that bad of a nerf.

4 nerfs and 1 buff, Mizuchi cancellable Jakou isn't that big of a deal but I guess we can't complain atm. It's nice to know that we'll always have a reliable way to stack an extra 1k though.

We should have expected the damage nerfs, Haz has always been an amazing character even without meterless damage in two iterations, so he'll definitely be more than ok.

[_Sey]

jC nerfs could be workable to deal breaking imho, if we can still get jC5 6C off any starter then the damage loss midscreen won't be too huge, maybe 1-1.5k max? we'll probably have to go for ... jC5 d.5C 6C d.5C 2C 4DA jDA jC5 j214B or something

corner combos will be ok maybe slightly weaker

if the jC nerf is huge there may be still be ways to work around it (although they could be character specific) we still have combo routes like:

5B 5C 3C 214D~66B 5A 2C 6D~D jC5 d.5C 623D d.5C 2C 4DD jC1 jC5 j214B

DMG: 3890

OD drive is both a nerf and a buff actually, sometimes OD combos were inconsistent damage wise because you could end up hitting w/ a short range chain instead of a max range and end up losing 200-300dmg or so.

This nerf only impacts midscreen OD combos in those situation where you couldn't corner carry them with 5C j4D~D, back to corner OD combo may end up dealing A LOT more damage now (we can already hit ~8k w/ 5C starter + 75% and 50% OD) because it was mostly short range chains anyway.

Nerf to 236C is like... w/e? what's the point? we could barely get 2.4k in corner by forcing a sideswap with 236C d.5C 3C 236D dash under 5C 6C ... I guess this nerf will prevent that? I honestly don't get it.

Having guaranteed mizuchi off 623D is pretty good, although it'll never be as good as the old games because of how meter gain works now, I wouldn't be surprised if it'll end up being a useless buff compared to just doing hountejin + dash CT combos.

623D > mizuchi may end up being unburstable though.

The overall nerf to backdashes could end up favoring us especially against characters that we already struggled against and did not get nerfed (taokaka pls), also that global buff to jump attacks could end up being interesting especially for random j.A confirms.

Overall they nerfed things we should have expected and it won't impact his playstyle/gameplay too much at all but it's still pretty annoying that Taokaka didn't get any meaningful nerf while Hazama was given nerfs and no cool buffs (even just 5B being jump cancellable on block again would have been sweet).

whens BBCP2 relius

Edited February 14, 2014 by _Sey

[Putin]

5B 5C 3C 214D~66B 5A 2C 6D~D jC5 d.5C 623D d.5C 2C 4DD jC1 jC5 j214B

DMG: 3890

Yooo I had this combo noted down after seeing it somewhere, but couldn't manage to do it or find the match to have a second look at it.

Do you happen to have a clip featuring it? I think I remember Mitsurugi pulling it off

OD drive is both a nerf and a buff actually, sometimes OD combos were inconsistent damage wise because you could end up hitting w/ a short range chain instead of a max range and end up losing 200-300dmg or so.

Yeah I thought about that the other night, overall midscreen OD combos will definitely be less damaging but not having to worry about enemy distance is great.

He can currently get almost 6K off 5C > 3C > 100% cOD into sideswap Jakou iirc? It's still gonna be great even if the damage drops by like 1k

[_Sey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFtMpIzkLn8&feature=youtu.be&t=18m33s

just doing 623D instead of d.5C 623D is much harder and possibly less reliable though, I think I got it to work only on Bang/Valk/Tao while I got d.5C 623D to work vs Relius too iirc (I didn't bother testing it vs the whole cast).

Hardest part is understanding the timing for the ~D pull, the jC5 delay part should be pretty standard stuff by now

[guilt]

Im having trouble understanding hazamas j.c loops. is there a weird timing to it? do i have to change the timing depending on the combo im using? can someone explain this a little better to me please?

[Putin]

Welp.

Im having trouble understanding hazamas j.c loops. is there a weird timing to it? do i have to change the timing depending on the combo im using? can someone explain this a little better to me please?

You need to delay the hits, it usually works if you do j.C2 > delay > j.C2 and j.C3 > delay > j.C2

These will probably change in a couple of months though, see image above.

[Syklone]

Guess I'm the only one complaining about these Hazama nerfs then

[Syklone]

N-n-no more loop

[Justice7541]

New Hazama nerfs, someone go translate them.

[Wokker]

Hazama

backdash: invincibility duration changed from 1-6 to 1-7. airborne duration changed from 1-16 to 1-19. distance moved is increased.

negative penalty: changed from level 2 to level 4.

overdrive D moves: no longer deals double damage

j.C: untech time on first four hits decreased from 21 to 19f, fifth hit from 25 to 21f. blowback on aerial hit changed.

ressenga: combo rate timer changed to moment

gasaisho: less time to followup if throw connects

jakou: can cancel the second part on hit into mizuchi rekkazan

houtenjin: damage decreased from 2500 to 1800

rekkazan: pulls them in slightly more. OD version pulls them into the life stealing ring

Source: http://pastebin.com/drHzhPeY

[Justice7541]

Wow, well at least they buffed his backdash by one frame.