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Henaki

ACCENT CORE General Discussion

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It is similar to the way slayer does his 5K into Mappa. Except Slayer does it because he can not special cancel his 5K. So he jump cancels his 5K, then special cancels the jump start up into Mappa.

So for Potemkin, you do 6K, 4 (hold) 9HS. Don't rush it.

For Potemkin he can special cancel his 6K but, he can not delay the special cancel. He needs that extra time to charge hammerfall, so a delayed special cancel is needed. But as mentioned earlier, he can't delay it. So instead he jump cancels his 6K, then cancel the jump start up into hammer fall when fully charge.

... MAH BRAIN.

Potemkin: taking back science.

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... MAH BRAIN.

Potemkin: taking back science.

No no no! You misunderstand. It is all quite simple. All it takes is some knowledge in quantum physics, Russian science, and butter churning.

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Thanks for that info Tae, got it worked out in a few minutes.

Got some +R frame data for Potemkin here, gonna get to work on it now. Wonder if there'll be any surprises...

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Thanks for that info Tae, got it worked out in a few minutes.

Got some +R frame data for Potemkin here, gonna get to work on it now. Wonder if there'll be any surprises...

You are welcome! Oooo!!! Frame data!

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So here's what changed. X -> Y means the value changed from X to Y

5P: 13f untechable time. Don't ask me, that's what it says.

5K: 90% initial prorate.

6K: 23 -> 40 damage. 85% -> 80% initial prorate. Cancels into 2D.

6H: 50% initial prorate. Wallbounces on hit, still 25f untech time. 1.5 -> 0.75 dizzy modifier.

5D: 29f -> 31f startup.

DAA: 50% forced prorate, no longer wallbounces.

2P: Hits low, 80% initial prorate.

2K: 90% initial prorate.

2S: 14f -> 13f startup.

2D: Special cancelable, 80% forced prorate.

j.S: 13f -> 14f startup. Ground bounce and knockdown on CH (ground: no forced untech time, air: 60f untech time). Air hit plummets opponent and knocks down, untechable for 25f.

j.D: air hit untechable for 40f (I think).

Mega Fist I: Knocks down on hit. Additional FRC point at 16-17f. Recovery landing+8 -> landing+13. Static difference -4f -> -9f.

Slide Head: 22f -> 23f startup. FRC point 26f-28f. Knockdown is regular knockdown.

Hammerfall: Level 5 -> Level 4. 19-27f -> 19-35f startup. 33f -> 27f recovery. -16f -> -18f Static Difference. Ground hit untechable for 22f. FRC point is 1f after active frames.

Hammerfall Break: FRC point 3f-10f.

Potemkin Buster: 140 -> 160 damage. No FRC. Can act 12f after toss (I think).

Heat Knuckle: 0, 15x2, 28 -> 0, 15x2, 40 damage. FRC point 24f-25f on whiff only.

Heat Extend: 57f -> 80f untechable time.

Judge Gauntlet: 85% initial prorate. Input P in 6f-24f to cancel, cancel animation is 14f.

Air Buster: FRC point 9f-11f after throw.

Magnum Opera: 98f -> 68f activation time. During activation, 9-60f invincible above the knee. 9f-28f strike invincible.

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Hammerfall isn't too bad. It travels farther (if the increased maximum startup is to be believed), still hits hard, and it wasn't safe on block anyway.

6K canceling into 2D is great imo. If I had a nickel for every time I landed 6K but whiffed 2H... Granted, the damage potential is lower, but reliable knockdown is nice.

Also, I didn't note this because it wasn't in the mook (though it was in the second loketest notes), but Heat Knuckle gains less Tension now. The bulk of it got moved to Extend. Unfortunately there's no Tension or Guard Bar info in the frame data we have, so I can't say for sure where it's at now.

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5P 13f untech = combos into far S, 2H, and j.K, as well as APB and HPB. And the new 1f-faster 2S?! I forget if 13f startup in GG terms means hits on 14, or hits on 13.

2P hitting low is nice, it's long but 5K is still faster, hah.

6H, "initial prorate" means only when starting a combo, right? Not forced max anytime the move hits? So then comboing into it is still same dmg.

Heh heh, faster IK activation...

Is 2D->Giganter possible without OTGing?

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5P 13f untech = combos into far S, 2H, and j.K, as well as APB and HPB.

Didn't think of that for 5P, nice.

And the new 1f-faster 2S?! I forget if 13f startup in GG terms means hits on 14, or hits on 13.

13f startup = active on 14th.

6H, "initial prorate" means only when starting a combo, right? Not forced max anytime the move hits? So then comboing into it is still same dmg.

Yes, initial prorate is just when it's the first hit - 6H doesn't have forced proration, thank goodness.

Is 2D->Giganter possible without OTGing?

I haven't seen 2D > Giganter done, but 2D RC Giganter works in AC, so I wanna say it would. The timing's tricky, but as an actual cancel that wouldn't be an issue. Can't get Bullet to not OTG though, but you can combo into anything else.

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nope. last frame of start-up = 1st frame of active
See, this is why I asked. I thought SF treats it that way, but GG treats it as startup is never active...I always get confused.

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Welp, gotta test this. Recorded PS2 gameplay at 60fps, played it back frame by frame.

The frame the button appears in the input bar is also the first frame of the attack's animation, so I'm calling that Frame 1. On Frame 15, 2S hits. The AC frame data lists it as 14-frame startup.

Now to compare a move that didn't change. 5K's animation starts the same frame the button comes up in input, so still calling that Frame 1. On Frame 8, 5K hits.

So I'm going to go with "startup is never active" unless RoBo has better proof.

Disregard this as I am blatantly wrong.

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Circ, Robo is right. (O.o)

From frame data, Pot's 2K is a Lv2 attack which gives it 12f of hitstun vs standing. [link]

From Pot's frame data, 2D and far S have 12f startup, whereas 2H has 13f. [link]

2K->far S and 2K->2D both combo, but 2K->2H doesn't. Meaning that in GG frame data an attack with 12f of hitstun combos into an attack with 12f of startup, so the last 'startup' frame is really the first active frame.

BUT HOW DOES THIS WORK WITH YOUR VISUAL RESULTS? Well, I'll tell ya, since it works the same way in SG so I can explain it. (^.^)

In lots of games such as 3s/MvC2/SG and now apparently GG, frame 12 is the first active frame but the hit detection is done after the characters are advanced on that frame, so it SHOWS the hit on frame 13 since that's when everyone reacts...but if you held Back to block on frame 13, you would still have been hit since the hit actually came out and made contact on the previous frame. Make some sense?

So if they did the frame data by gauging it visually when it looks like it hits, they would list the attack as having 12f of startup because visually the opponent reacts on 13, but what's really happening inside the engine is that the opponent is getting hit on frame 12 after everyone is advanced, thus the reaction happens visually on the next frame. Frame 12 is the last frame of hitstun (so on 13 they would be in idle stance if the they weren't hit), but it is also the first frame the next attack goes active, though the actual "did anyone hit" calculation is done after all the sprites are advanced for that frame.

[edit] And so, in Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus Reload (whew), Pot should be able to do 5P->2S vs air.

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I seeeeeeee... that makes it consistent with other games, then. Thanks for the explanation. Sorry for doubting you, RoBo.

(also it's just Plus R. Maybe Plus Ringedge?)

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So, I noticed that Pot Buster lost it's FRC, though I could have sworn I've seen videos of people comboing off of it at mid-screen regardless. Is this the case?

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On some characters he can connect f.S after PB at midscreen. Don't know who all it works on, I think Sol, Slayer, Anji, Faust, maybe some others.

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So Potemkin in R is pretty easy to pick up. The later FRC on Hammer fall and the new ones on Heat, Slide Head, and Hammerfall break are easy to get used to. It is funny having the later FRC on Hammerfall. I am unintentionally frame trapping my opponents when they block it and try to hit me because they do not immediately see an FRC. XD

The one thing I feel really bad about the later FRC time is the hit stop really ruins the timing now. So if your opponent backdashes it, you'll miss the FRC because you are timing it as if they gonna block/hit them. On whiff, the FRC is really early.

6K > 2D > Reflector works on light characters, but the follow up OTGs them since they are so low to the ground when hit by the reflector. This however, is not necessary since you can chain 6K into Reflector.

6K > Hammer still hard as hell on crouching non counter hit.

You can really feel the recovery in Mega Fist.

On the characters you can 5fS > 2S > Heat after Pot Buster, you can do the same with FB air Pot Buster. The FRC is optional for those characters. Unnecessary to FRC in the corner. The FRC itself is just like the current Pot Buster FRC just a couple of frames later.

Higher level 5P is nice. Funny to see 5P > 2S connect in the corner after Pot Buster. XD

Heat Knuckle is super untechable. More so than old Heat Extend.

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