Overheat Report post Posted March 25, 2013 I may update this thread from time to time if new information is uncovered, or if any mistakes are noted. CSE Lambda frame data CP Nu frame data Although the intent of this thread is to give a comprehensive list of changes of CSE Lambda to CP Nu, this thread also should do a good job of overviewing CP Nu. I'm not going to list every single combo route that's changed, and things like that. To get a better sense of what is and isn't possible, check out the combo thread. Her offense capabilities were generally buffed. Arguably more options but less damage describes her offensive changes from CSE-CP quite well. She's also able to keep the opponent in the corner easier. However, the changes to the SMP system hurt her combo ability and Heat Gain more than other characters. Defensively, this is her worst iteration. The new system changes and mechanics hurt her a lot. Nu has 2 different modes, Dia and Luna. Both modes may slightly alter her normals and Drive, and give her access to a few unique specials, although often the inputs for the moves are identical. She starts every round in Dia mode. To give some examples, (Dia) 3C causes float on hit, while (Luna) 3C gives a hard knockdown. (Dia) Nu can do a Crescent feint (j.214D~C), but (Luna) Nu cannot. (Dia) Nu has access to her (66 and 44) Act Parsers from Calamity Trigger (forward and backward teleports after certain moves), while (Luna) Nu has access to her Act Parser Zwei (236A/B/C) from Continuum Shift. If it makes it easier to understand, you could think of Dia mode as Nu (ν) mode, and Luna mode as Lambda (λ) mode. DiaIn Dia mode, Nu is generally a better zoner with greater mobility. It's a bit more difficult to successfully close in on Nu when she's in Dia mode. However, she has no reversal options at all (besides OD), making her even weaker under pressure. Unique to Dia mode is her 236236D Legacy Edge. Dia-specific inputs: - 66 after certain moves - 44 after certain moves - j.66 after certain moves - j.44 after certain moves - 236D~C - 214D~C - j.214D~C - 236236DLunaIn Luna mode, Nu plays a bit more straightforward. Luna mode has greater combo tools than Dia, as well as a damage buff to some moves (?) (except Throw, Air Throw, and 214D). It's easier to close in on Nu in Luna mode. She still has her 632146D Calamity Sword reversal, though. It's a bit of an exaggeration, but Luna mode is more high-risk, high-reward than Dia. I generally don't recommend staying in Luna mode at neutral. Luna-specific inputs: - 236A - 236B - 236C - 632146D - j.632146DNew inputsCrush Trigger (A+B), or CT, costs 25 Heat to use. It can Guard Crush a blocking opponent (although they can avoid being GC'ed if they Barrier Block). It can also be used as a combo tool. Supra Rage (623C) is primarily used as a combo ender. The Luna version can also be used mid-combo. Face Lift (22A) is used to change Nu between Dia and Luna mode. It can be used mid-combo, and it's fairly safe to use in your offensive pressure as well. This is probably Nu's most important change. Act Parser (66, 44, j.66, and j.44 after certain moves) is essentially her teleport from Calamity Trigger (and from her Unlimited iterations). She can teleport backwards or forward about 3/4th's of the screen (and potentially cross the opponent up). There's also a shorter air version. Sword of Destruction (214214D Astral, changed from 222D) seems to be the same as always. A short-ranged command throw. To get a better sense of her new moves, please check out the link to her frame data at the top of the thread.OverDriveIn Nu's OD, her Drive summons 2 swords instead of 1 (similar to her Unlimited iterations in past games). Luna damage values are used regardless of which mode she is in. She gains access to mode-specific inputs, regardless of which mode she is in, such as her Act Parser and Act Parser Zwei. Specials that share inputs between modes (such as 236D or j.214D) are still based on which mode you're currently in.System Changes (You may wish to check Circuitous's or Kurushii's post on some of these changes)The game seems like it runs faster, due to less hitstop. The Burst stock system is gone. Instead, Bursts recharge with time. Using a burst when blocking or getting hit makes you Green Burst as usual. Gold Bursts have been replaced by OverDrive. OD is a temporary, unique power-up for every character. It lasts longer the lower your health is. Some moves can be cancelled into OD to act like an RC of sorts (similar to OMB's in Persona). If you cancel a move into OD, the duration is shorter. Basically, if you activate OD outside of neutral, the duration is shortened. As long as OD is active, the timer is frozen. Combo's done in OD are unburstable. Green Bursts changed from (22f? start-up, 6f? active, 27f? recovery, -16? frame advantage, 20f? untech) to (6 start-up, 2 active, 47 recovery, -24 frame advantage, 300 untech). You can no longer Burst after getting hit by a Counter Assault or Burst. Moves can no longer go offscreen. As an example, 236D will always stay on screen, even if you're very close to the corner. Guard Primers are gone. Every character has a new normal called a Crush Trigger, or CT. CT's cost 25 Heat to use and can Guard Crush a blocking opponent (if they aren't Barrier blocking). It's also a very useful combo tool. Teching can now also be done by holding A, B, or C, just like in Persona. The combo system has been changed, with proration no longer affecting untech time or hitstun deterioration like in Continuum Shift. Instead, hitstun deterioration is determined by a timer value that each move as a starter has. A 5A starter will start experiencing hitstun deterioration relatively much earlier than 214D, for example. As a result, combo's tend to be much shorter. More detailed information on the new combo system is available here. Fatal Counters now add 3 frames of hitstun/untech time. Heat Gain prorates now, resulting in much less Heat Gain per combo than before. The SMP (Same Move Penalty) system has changed. SMP no longer appears to have a damage penalty. Using SMP in a combo generally allows the opponent to tech much quicker than before. Negative Penalty now puts you in Danger State by disabling Barrier for fixed amount of time. AH conditions changed. Having a burst available is no longer required. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Overheat Report post Posted March 25, 2013 In terms of proration, most moves are better starters now. However, some moves are now also worse mid-combo. An easier way to remember this is that mids generally have a P1 of 100, along with generally nerfed P2's. For convenience, damage value changes assume you're in Dia mode (unless otherwise stated). Apparently all Special Cancellable moves are also cancellable into OverDrive. All Special Cancellable moves are cancellable into Crush Trigger. Jump duration changed from 42f to 39f. High jump duration changed from 51f to 48f. Character Combo Rate changed from 85% to 70%. I generally didn't bother to check if the values of blockstun, hitstun, hitstun CH, and untech on CH were different, since I'd have to manually check it from the Attack Level in CSE. The blockstun and hitstun/untech CH values are probably largely redundant anyway. Since CH frames aren't mentioned, I didn't bother listing it either. It'd be nice to know for moves like 214D or (Luna) 236D, though. Normals5A: - P1 changed from 80% to 100%. - P2 changed from 84% to 77%. - Lost Head Attribute. 5B: - P1 changed from 90% to 100%. - P2 changed from 86% to 85%. - Lost Head Attribute. 5C: - Is now similar to all of her other C normals in that all hits come out unless cancelled. - Untech changed from 19f to 24f. - P1 changed from 90% to 100%. - P2 changed from 99%^8 to 89% (once). - Lost Head Attribute. - Now a Fatal Counter. 6A: - P1 changed from 80% to 90%. - Lost Head Attribute. 6B: - P1 changed from 85% to 100%. - Lost Head Attribute. 6C: - Hitstun changed from 22f to 24f. - Lost Head Attribute. - Lost Foot Attribute. 2A: - Start-up changed from 8f to 7f. - P1 changed from 80% to 100%. - P2 changed from 84% to 77%. 2B: - P1 changed from 80% to 90%. - P2 changed from 86% to 85%. 2C: - Frame advantage changed from -8 to -9. - P1 changed from 80% to 90%. - Head Attribute invincibility changed from 11f-34f to 11f-17f. 3C: - Causes float in Dia for an easy follow-up. - Frame advantage changed from -8 to -10. - Recovery changed from 23f to 25f. - P1 changed from 70% to 90%. - P2 changed from 92% to 79% (Dia) and 89% (Luna). 4B: - No longer has the first hit. - Damage changed from 300 + 880 to 880. - Start-up changed from 9f+8f to 23f. - P1 changed from 65% to 80%. - P2 changed from 94% to 82%. - Lost Body Attribute. j.A: - P2 changed from 84% to 77%. j.B: - P2 changed from 86% to 85%. j.C: - P2 changed from 86% (once) to 85% (once). j.2C: - apparently no changes. Throw: - Damage changed from 1000 to 1400. - P1 changed from 90% to 100%. - P2 changed from 55% to 60%. - (Trajectory change?) - (Additional untech from corner bounce changed?) Air Throw: - Ground bounces the opponent. Meterless follow-up possible. - Always switches sides on hit. - Damage changed from 2000 to 1400. - Untech changed from 50f to 53f. - P2 changed from 55% to 60%. Counter Assault: - Start-up changed from 9f to 13f. - (Level changed?)Drive - Drive follow-ups not possible on block in Luna. - Projectile level increase to 2 in Luna. - Drive starter P1 changed from 85% to 90%. - Drive follow-up P1 changed from 85% to 90%. - All Drives and their follow-ups gained Foot Attribute.5D: - (Dia) 5D is jump cancellable. - 5D hitstun changed from 22f to 17f. - 5D untech changed from 22f to 17f. - (Dia) 5DD hitstun changed from 27f to 30f. 6D: - 6DD start-up changed from 4f to 6f. - 6D untech changed from 22f to 17f. 2D: - Sword shoots at a steeper angle. - 2D untech changed 22f to 17f. 4D: - 4D untech changed from 22f to 17f. j.D: - j.D hitstun changed from 17f to 12f. - j.D untech changed from 22f to 12f. - j.D recovery changed from 47f to 44f. j.2D: - j.2D hitstun changed from 17f to 12f. - j.2D untech changed from 22f to 12f. - j.2D recovery changed from 47f to 44f.Specials - Altering 236D, 214D, and j.214D with (~C) not possible in Luna mode.214A/B/C: - Only an attack in Luna mode. - Better hitbox. - Ground bounces on air hit, instead of causing float. - Dia mode consumes 1/3 of the gauge. - Luna mode consumes 2/3 (on whiff) of the gauge. Gauge is still fully consumed if it connects. - Damage changed from 100 to 800. - Whiffing Gravity Seed changes active frames to 30? (Field disappears in 30f if it "whiffs" the opponent, maybe?) - Untech changed from 50f to 40f. - P1 changed from 90% to 80% - Lost Throw invincibility. - Lost Head Attribute. - Lost Projectile Attribute. - Has SMP. 214D: - (Luna) 214D sends out 2 spikes that are taller and wider. - (Luna) 214D's damage changed from 1200 to 900. - (Luna) 214D's start-up changed from 35f to 29f. - (Luna) 214D's active changed from 45f to 28f. - (Luna) 214D's recovery changed from 75f to 69f. - (Luna) 214D's frame advantage changed from -7 to 0. - (Luna) 214D's untech changed from 40f to 50f. - P1 changed from 80% to 100%. - P2 changed from 90% to 80%. - Gained Foot Attribute. - Has SMP. 236A (Luna only): - apparently no changes. 236B (Luna only): - Causes spinning fall on ground hit. Follow-up possible. - Wallbounces. - Damage changed from 1250 to 700. - Untech changed from 30f to 40f. - Recovery changed from 20f to 29f. - Frame advantage changed from -1 to -7. - P2 changed from 80% to 92%. - Level changed from 5 to 4. - Has SMP. 236C (Luna only): - No longer wallbounces. Wallsticks in corner. - Damage changed from 1500 to 1250. - Untech changed from 64f to 30f. - P1 changed from 80% to 90%. - Lost Head Attribute. 236D(~C) (Dia): - Changed from downing the opponent to causing blow back. Knocks back farther on air hit. - Damage changed from 250 x 6 to 900 (980 for 236D~C). - Is a faster, fullscreen low. Start-up changed from 38f (44f) to 17f (15f+8f). - Frame advantage changed from +71 (+77) to -18 (-12) - Untech changed from 10f per hit to 35f (25f). - P1 changed from 75% to 95%. - P2 changed from 85% (once) to 89%. - Gained Head Attribute. - Gained Body Attribute. - Has SMP (mode-specific). 236D (Luna): - Homes in on the opponent? (with 2 places where it'll appear, just like in CS1/CS2/CSE). - Damage changed from 250 x 6 to 250 x 5. - Start-up changed from 38f (44f) to 36f. - Active changed from 5f per hit with a 6f gap in-between, to 6f per hit with a 2f gap in-between. - Recovery changed from 62f to 54f. - Frame advantage changed from +71 (+77) to +50 (+48) - Untech changed from 10f per hit to 30f x 4, 40f. - P1 changed from 75% to 80%. - P2 changed from 85% (once) to 89% (once). - Gained Head Attribute. - Gained Body Attribute. - Has SMP (mode-specific). j.214D: - Downs the opponent in Dia. - Hitbox has no deadzone in Luna. - Frame advantage changed from -8 to -10. - Gained Foot Attribute? - Not a Fatal Counter anymore. - (Ground bounces lower? Harder to follow-up in Luna than in Continuum Shift?) 236236D (Dia only): - Gained Foot Attribute. - Heat cooldown changed from 375f to 180f. 632146D (Luna only): - P1 changed from 50% to 70%. - Recovery changed from 49f to 68f. - Frame advantage changed from -25 to -27. - Untech changed from 164f to 100f. - Gained Foot Attribute. - Not a Fatal Counter anymore. j.632146D (Luna only): - P1 changed 72% to 90%. - Gained Foot Attribute. - Not a Fatal Counter anymore. 214214D: - Cooldown changed from 0f to 180f?These are exceptions or changes in OverDrive compared to CP Nu, not CSE Lambda. OverDrive changes - (~C) follow-ups possible for (Luna) 236D, 214D, and j.214D. - Gains access to Act Parser (66/44/j.66/j.44) and Act Parser Zwei (236A/B/C) regardless of current mode. - If applicable, moves have Luna damage values.Drive: - Damage change from 480 to 300 x 2. - P2 changed from 89% to 89% (once). Drive follow-up: - Damage changed from 200 to 200 x 2. - P2 changed from 94% to 94% (once). 214D (Dia): - Damage changed from 1200 to 1440. 214D (Luna): - Damage for 214D~C is 1440. 236D (Dia): - Damage changed from 900 (~C 980) to 1080 (~C 1176). 236236D: - Damage changed from 93 x 22 to 93 x 37. - Frame advantage changed from +73 to +133. - Minimum damage changed from 396 to 666. 632146D: - Downs the opponent. Follow-up not possible without Heat. - Damage changed from 2000 to 1250 x 4. - Minimum damage changed from 400 to 1500. - Active changed from 9f to 9f per hit with a 6f gap in-between. - Untech changed from 100f to 25f per hit. - Frame advantage changed from -27 to +7. - P2 changed from 80% to 92%^4. j.632146D: - Downs the opponent. Follow-up not possible without Heat. - Damage changed from 2600 to 1250 x 4. - Minimum damage changed from 1040 to 1500. - Active changed from 9f to 9f per hit with a 6f gap in-between. - Untech changed from 100f to 25f per hit. - P2 changed from 20% to 92%^4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Overheat Report post Posted March 25, 2013 In CP, Nu's combo ender has generally changed to a much larger emphasis on 623C, as opposed to her air Drive ender (which is still possible). The context here is a midscreen medium-to-far range 3C.(CSE) - 3C > 236B - 3C > 236D (CP) (Dia) - 3C > (delay) 236D - 3C > 22A > 3C > 236D - 3C > 22A > 6A > 4B > 2DD > 214D > 22A > Dashing 6A > TK > Dashing 3C > 22A > 3C > 236D/623CExample of a corner combo. In order for Nu to maximize damage, she'll be using 22A (Face Lift) a lot.(CSE) - Dashing 2B > 3C > 236B > Dashing 5B > 2C > TK > 5C[2] > 6C > 214D > 5C[8] > 6C > 236C > Dashing 3C - Dashing 2B > 3C > 214A > 236C > Dashing 5C[2] > 6C > 236D > 214D~C > 214D > 4B[#2 only] > 2DD > TK > 6DD > 2DD > air ender (CP) (Dia) - Dashing 2B > 3C > 22A > 6A > 6C > 236D > 22A > 214D > 22A > 236C > 5C > 2C > 623C (CP) (Luna) - 3C > 236B > 22A > 6A > 5C > 236D > 22A > 6A > 5C > 6C > 236D > 236C > 5C > 2C > 623C Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VioletMurakumo Report post Posted February 26, 2014 Thank you for proving this information. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
