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[P4A] Labrys - Optimal Oki Thread

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I'm a relatively new Labrys player, but once I began to explore Labrys' options off Tsurugi I really fell in love with the character. Through careful research and optimizing, I've found some absolutely monstrous setups! So, I decided to start this thread to explore an alternative play style for Labrys - creating optimal reset setups with Tsurugi.

If anybody has additional input or tips to improve the guide, PLEASE post and I will update it!

"Normal" Sweep > Tsurugi Oki

We all know the typical oki in this situation (or do we?):

  • Sweep [Low]
  • Guillotine [High]
  • dash throw [throw]
  • some IAD cross-up thing [cross-up]
  • roll [cross-up and DP safe]
  • nothing [DP safe]

    However, this shit sucks, mostly due to the fact that one option from the opponent beats multiple from Labrys:
    • Roll beats everything except throw and doing nothing
    • Up-Back beats everything but sweep
    • DP beats everything but roll and doing nothing

      This means that if Labrys wants to go for an actual mix-up, playing disrespectfully with these options will at least soft counter everything except throw/sweep/roll. Even if Labrys refines her oki solely to these options, she has a 2/3 chance of guessing wrong unless she does nothing. That's not even rock-paper-scissors. That's CT Tager tier bad. Keep in mind, however, that it's all Labrys can really get if she lands a sweep from further than point blank.

      How to optimize Sweep >Tsurugi oki

      So if her core oki game is so bad, how can Labrys get around it? Simple - ALWAYS HIT WITH SWEEP AT POINT BLANK RANGE. Labrys ends close enough that she gains another option for oki - meaty 5A (just micro dash to get close enough). Plugging 5A into the above list, we now have:

      • Roll loses to Nothing, 5A, and Throw
      • Up Back loses to 5A, Sweep
      • DP loses to Nothing, Roll

        5A is clearly superior to throw and sweep, so never do throw or sweep. We've now reduce the opponent to 3 options - A) Try to press buttons and lose to meaty 5A B) Try to DP and lose to a prediction C) Block. Not bad! So what do we do when the opponent finally decides to respect meaty 5A and block? THAT'S THE BEST PART!

        • Sweep > Tsurugi B[Hold] > dash 5A > [Release] > IAD
          What's that? You're not playing Shadow Labrys? Don't need to! When Tsurugi is timed correctly, this cross-up is literally unreactable. From personal experience, releasing Tsurugi as soon as 5A gets blocked gives the perfect timing.
        • Sweep > Tsurugi B [Hold] > dash 5A > [Release] > 9
          Feints an IAD cross-up. Start doing this once the opponent starts guess when a cross-up is coming. Note that after the blocked 5A, Labrys is COMPLETELY DP AND COUNTER ASSULT SAFE! Also the block stun on Tsurugi is long enough to get one last mix-up without worrying about pesky DPs.
        • Sweep > Tsurugi B [Hold] > dash 5A > [Release] > 9 > (land > 2A) OR (jA)
          Interestingly enough, Labrys can control which side of the opponent she lands on by slightly altering the release of Tsurugi. 5 way mix-up?! Not that Labrys REALLY has to hit with sweep at point blank range, in order for this to work.
        • Sweep > Tsurugi A > dash > roll
          Now that the opponent can only really guess between DP or block, roll cross-up actually serves a purpose. Conditioning with 5A makes the cross-up more likely to hit and DP can be punished easily.


          Corner Oki

          While Labrys obviously can't cross up a cornered opponent, she does gain some interesting opponents.

          • Sweep > Tsurugi A [Hold] > Throw > [Release]
            This mix-up becomes much stronger in the corner since Labrys can now throw as early as is possible.
          • Sweep > Tsurugi A/B [Hold with C] > 5A > AOA > [Release]
            hold the c button after doing 22b. When you do 5a>AOA let go of the tsurugi.
            When done correctly they cant dp after the AOA and it functions as a frame trap also.
          • 5DD Oki

            In certain situations - specifically off of corner hit confirms - Labrys can also use 5D and 5DD to set up oki! I lack personal experience with this, so here's someone else explaining it:

            Yellow Axe (example setups):

            AOA D>5AA>2C>5D>214A>5DD oki.

            AoA D>5AA>2C>5D>hold charged 5B>5DD>Release Charged 5B>Charged 5B

            You can either do Tsurugi or another 5D after for oki

            You have to do 5D at the same time when your opponent techs for 5D oki though.

            The 1st two arrows aka 5D should hit your opponent on wake-up forcing them to block if done correctly since 5D is +9 on the Labrys wiki. Then you still have 5DD to follow up with after using 2A/5A from the 1st 5D.

              [*]Will update later for strong options with 5D and 5DD oki

              Optimal Hit Confirms

              As we all know, most of Labrys' combos are underwhelming until she gets red axe. You'll be lucky to get 2k damage off of a hit confirm until then. Instead, we'll focus on constantly resetting the same Tsurugi oki situation until she has enough meter to kill. Kind of like a B tier Chie.

                [*]Tsurugi hits > falling jB > dash 2A > 5B > sweep > Tsurugi

                Green axe? No meter? This is all Labrys can really.

                [*]Tsurugi hits > 5B > SB Guillotine > Tsurugi B > micro dash 5A > 2B > run closer > sweep

                25 meter to get 400 more damage and a little better axe meter.

                [*](jA >) 5AA > SB Guillotine > Tsurugi A > 2A > 2B > Tsurugi hits > dash 5B > sweep

                Doesn't work with jB at Green Axe or lower. One of the easiest ways to get the Oki train started.

                [*]2A > 5B > Chain Knuckle A > SB Extra Attack > dash 5A > sweep

                Only works in yellow axe, but hey, it's better than a 3 hit combo.

                [*][Red Axe] 5A > Tsurugi > Charge BD > 5AA > 2C > Charge BD > 2A > 2B > Guillotine B > Beast D

                Auto hit confirms in red axe, it's pretty much all labrys can do. They're probably dead anyway.

                Corner Only Hit Confirms

                  [*]5A>Tsurugi>Charged 5B>2C>5D>214A (5DD oki)

                  [*]2A>Tsurugi>Charged 5B>2C>5D>214A (5DD oki)

                  [*]Grab>Tsurugi>Charged 5B>2C>5D>214A (5DD oki)

                  [*]Grab>Tsurugi>Charged 5B>2C>5D>5DD>Charged 5B (5DD or Tsurugi oki)

                  All confirm to work with green/yellow axe. Should also work from raw tsurugi starter.

                  [*][Yellow Axe] AOA > D > 5AA > 2C [2 hits] > 5D > D > Charge 5B > dash 5B > Sweep

                  This swag as fuck combo deals a ton of damage. Cancel into 5D ASAP in order to only get 2 hits from 2C. The timing on 5DD and charge 5B is a little strange but it's easy to land every time once you know it.

                  Other Useful Info

                  Labrys, Shadow Labrys and Elizabeth are all completely fucked vs. 5A oki. Their DPs can not be used at all to escape - Labrys and Slabrys' have super armor so Labrys just jump cancels to safety, and Elizabeth's DP is too slow to connect before Labrys can just jump or counter DP. Without 50 meter they have no answer so go crazy on them.

Edited by Setsuna

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I actually just saw this meaty 5A setup used in this 11 part Japanese Labrys mirrors netplay session on Nico just a day ago! I also saw a Lab try out my theory yellow/red axe AoA bounce > 5B > 5DD corner ender for oki, was a mindfuck seeing someone else think of that, but that's for another thread discussion

Anyways messing with this you can also do 5A > 9 AT 6(I still don't know what to call this technique)> 2A for the quick crossup and low. You can also do that crossup into a quick j.A but sometimes it hits them out of the Tsurugi. If you delay the j.a a little bit you can fuzzy them(I hope I'm using this term correctly!)

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I actually just saw this meaty 5A setup used in this 11 part Japanese Labrys mirrors netplay session on Nico just a day ago! I also saw a Lab try out my theory yellow/red axe AoA bounce > 5B > 5DD corner ender for oki, was a mindfuck seeing someone else think of that, but that's for another thread discussion

Anyways messing with this you can also do 5A > 9 AT 6(I still don't know what to call this technique)> 2A for the quick crossup and low. You can also do that crossup into a quick j.A but sometimes it hits them out of the Tsurugi. If you delay the j.a a little bit you can fuzzy them(I hope I'm using this term correctly!)

One or two matches I saw with a Japanese Labrys was definitely my inspiration for figuring out more about this setup. That 5DD corner oki sounds really interesting! I'd like to find out more about it.

I call it IATD (instant airturn dash).

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  • Tsurugi hits > falling jB > dash 2A > 5B > sweep > Tsurugi
    Green axe? No meter? This is all Labrys can really.
  • Tsurugi hits > 5B > SB Guillotine > Tsurugi B > micro dash 5A > 2B > run closer > sweep > Tsurugi
    25 meter to get 400 more damage and a little better axe meter.
  • jA > 5AA > SB Guillotine > Tsurugi A > 2A > 2B > dash 5B > sweep > Tsurugi
    Strangely, this combo doesn't work with jB at Green Axe or lower.
  • 2A > 5B > Chain Knuckle A > SB Extra Attack > dash 5A > sweep > Tsurugi
    Only works in yellow axe, but hey, it's better than a 3 hit combo.
  • [Red Axe] 5A > Tsurugi > Charge BD > 5AA > 2C > Charge BD > 2A > 2B > Guillotine B > Beast D
    Auto hit confirms in red axe, it's pretty much all labrys can do. They're probably dead anyway.
  • [in corner, Yellow Axe] AOA > D > 5AA > 2C [2 hits] > 5D > D > Charge 5B > dash 5B > Sweep > Tsurugi
    This swag as fuck combo deals a ton of damage. Cancel into 5D ASAP in order to only get 2 hits from 2C. The timing on 5DD and charge 5B is a little strange but it's easy to land every time once you know it.

Other Useful Info

Labrys, Shadow Labrys and Elizabeth are all completely fucked vs. 5A oki. Their DPs can not be used at all to escape - Labrys and Slabrys' have super armor so Labrys just jump cancels to safety, and Elizabeth's DP is too slow to connect before Labrys can just jump or counter DP. Without 50 meter they have no answer so go crazy on them.

DISCLAIMER: I'm like an old fart that doesn't really play this game anymore, so I just like making posts at this point. Take this info at your risk.

The j.A 5AA combo works because j.B has double the P1 and P2.

You can OS the worse DPs with 5A[7]5A if you don't feel like reacting, you just give up your spike if it actually hits since the only way to go off of 5A upback is to use the spike.

For midscreen BD loops, 5A 2C prorates a lot less than 5AA 2C. If the proration isn't too bad, you can also do an aircombo after 2B for a bit more damage and meter.

As for your last combo, can you work on an SMP off of that? I know 5DD has this weird property where it counts for a bunch of moves. I didn't know you could combo into it that way. I'm tempted to try something out now. Simple would be

AOA > D > 5AA > 2C [2 hits] > 5D > D > Charge 2B > OMB > charge 5B x 2 > dash 5B > Sweep > Tsurugi/KILL EM ALL. I don't know if that works I'll test it if I ever go into training mode. I'm pretty sure there was that japanese video where they used 5DD and it coutned for a ton of SMP hits idk I'm bad at this game.

And after tsurugi, dash 2A works well. It's not as good against DPs, but it'll blow up roll (since it'll recover, and you can dash throw or dash meaty punish) and as long as it hits within jump startup it'll stuff that too. It's not as rewarding as 5A, but it's a low option that's worth considering since it also has less recovery.

As for 5DD oki, that sounds cool. I tried to make it work a while back off of raw bounce, but I didn't think of adding 5B. Maybe you could get enough time for safejump j.A fuzzy? the possibilities are endless~ and the character's still ass :x

It's nice to see people still care though.

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For midscreen BD loops, 5A 2C prorates a lot less than 5AA 2C. If the proration isn't too bad, you can also do an aircombo after 2B for a bit more damage and meter.

I would imagine that is actually a safe variant. This is a short BD loop (2 BDs) that starts from a grounded BD (as opposed to 2C > charge BD which is aerial). Its easier to 5AA > 2C after a grounded BD vs. 5A > 2C since your opponent's height is lower than what is expected for a "standard" loop. Well I still need to get my game to actually try this out either way

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wow thanks a lot for this guide. I could never get anything going with Labrys' oki. Felt like I was losing the guessing game most of the time and this explains it lol. I noticed that most people just jump away and I try to do IAD air throw for those cases, but doesn't always work due to some spacing/timing in addition to not guessing right. I did try the meaty 5A, but sometimes my sweep lands a bit far off and there is a good amount of space that I can't even land the 5A when people just jump away.

Anyways, I'm gonna practice the oki listed here and see if it helps in my matches.

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This is also useful for someone like me who's constantly losing against really good Labrys' in my city, especially since you guys shit all over Naoto's traps with your huge ass normals that I can never outpoke. :v:

At the very least if I study this, I can figure out a way how to safely return to neutral if I guess right, so thank you for this. :)

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Just a quick question, so I can't really do most of these oki setups if I can't land the sweep point blank range? There are many instance where I land my bnb not really at point blank range, so the sweep I land is a bit far off as I mentioned before.

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If you land the sweep too far off you can just 66 5B/Sweep > Release Tsurugi > 66 > 5A during the blockstun of Tsurugi(assuming they block the 5B/sweep obviously) to close the distance. From there you can go into the standard blockstring into 214A OMC 2A mixup or IATD j.A/2A. This way you're never really at a "disadvantage" on oki just because you landed it too far away.

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Just a quick question, so I can't really do most of these oki setups if I can't land the sweep point blank range? There are many instance where I land my bnb not really at point blank range, so the sweep I land is a bit far off as I mentioned before.

If you're too far, all that happens is you give up your meaty. This means you won't be able to hit a roll (although you will be able to punish, if you watch for it) and they might jump out, depending on the character, if you do like sweep or something. As a general rule, from any distance, sweep xx tsurugi into sweep will beat most things that aren't DP or at least make it your turn.

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Sorry, I didn't quite get it... when I'm far off, I should sweep > tsurugi (do I use B tsurugi and hold it?) > sweep? But this won't win against rolls and jump back? If that is the case, I'm not sure how it will work for me since most people I play against rolls/jump back most of the time against the oki. And to clarify, does TC's guide meant that I do meaty 5A at point blank and not sweep after tsurugi? I was getting a bit confused from reading it since it was stated always sweep at point blank range.

Edited by donkatsu

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I actually just saw this meaty 5A setup used in this 11 part Japanese Labrys mirrors netplay session on Nico just a day ago!

Could you possibly give a link to the video.

I don't play this game anymore but I made a similar thread to this over at MM awhile back. Here. Maybe some of these setups can help too. But alas it's pretty incomplete. I may go back and fix some things and add stuff if you guys want me to. Some of what you mentioned here I didnt think of though. Like point blank Sweep for 5A oki. Good stuff

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Could you possibly give a link to the video.

I don't play this game anymore but I made a similar thread to this over at MM awhile back. Here. Maybe some of these setups can help too. But alas it's pretty incomplete. I may go back and fix some things and add stuff if you guys want me to. Some of what you mentioned here I didnt think of though. Like point blank Sweep for 5A oki. Good stuff

http://www.nicovideo.jp/user/2423960 It's all on this guys channel. Starts off with 10月14日 ラビリスオンリープレマ避難所Part1. Pretty fun watch. Not all of them use the 5A meaty oki variant though. iirc only two of them really did it.

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Sorry, I didn't quite get it... when I'm far off, I should sweep > tsurugi (do I use B tsurugi and hold it?) > sweep? But this won't win against rolls and jump back? If that is the case, I'm not sure how it will work for me since most people I play against rolls/jump back most of the time against the oki. And to clarify, does TC's guide meant that I do meaty 5A at point blank and not sweep after tsurugi? I was getting a bit confused from reading it since it was stated always sweep at point blank range.

You want the sweep to hit point blank. So you need to do 5A/2A > 5B > Sweep as close to them as you can be for it to work perfectly. Then you microdash meaty 5A on their wakeup.

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http://www.nicovideo.jp/user/2423960 It's all on this guys channel. Starts off with 10月14日 ラビリスオンリープレマ避難所Part1. Pretty fun watch. Not all of them use the 5A meaty oki variant though. iirc only two of them really did it.

Thanks for the quick reply. Ill go through it all eventually.

I may start experimenting with 5D(D) oki options as well. I didnt really explore it as much as I did with Tsurugi

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OK, just so that I really understand the whole sequence... it is:

bnb with tsurugi B hold > sweep > [tsurugi B hits] > 66 > 5A > mix up (IAD, etc)?

And I should be able to do this regardless of the first sweep from the bnb hitting point blank range or far off?

Though if I can hit the first sweep from bnb point blank range, I don't have to hold my tsurugi and just dash meaty 5A?

Sorry if it sounds like I'm repeating myself, but I still wasn't sure of this.

Edited by donkatsu

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Eh I'm not too certain 5DD oki will work anymore, maybe on characters like Labrys, Liz, Slab who don't have any kind of options for it, but Narukami DP beats it out the start up every time. It might just be a distance thing though, a lot of hits whiff from 5DD if you're too close so it might need some tinkering with.

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OK, just so that I really understand the whole sequence... it is:

bnb with tsurugi B hold > sweep > [tsurugi B hits] > 66 > 5A > mix up (IAD, etc)?

And I should be able to do this regardless of the first sweep from the bnb hitting point blank range or far off?

Sorry if it sounds like I'm repeating myself, but I still wasn't sure of this.

The setup is sweep into tsurugi (usually B), and then...you kind of do whatever. Apparently sweep loses to stuff? I haven't had too many problems catching people with it. What Eshi is saying that if you get the sweep close enough, you can do a true meaty 5A or 2A to like beat everything that isn't DP. The sweep in that case must be CLOSER (although point blank isn't necessary if you microdash like a man, and honestly meaty doesn't beat anything that 2f after doesn't, really).

Pretty much once you get your spike, you can enforce respect or bait hard disrespect (DP). Do your mixup, and if it hits, confirm, if not, you can continue pressure or back off. People know Labrys as a character more now, so they've caught on that Labrys's pressure is kinda fraudulent, so I see most Labryses backing off against characters that don't have miserable defense if the initial mixup is blocked and return to neutral.

tl;dr: Sit on your axe, get a hit. If it's a ground hit, get a spike. Depending on the distance of the sweep into spike, you have fewer or more options for oki. Do oki, if it hits, do it again/kill, if it doesn't, back to the start.

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Eh I'm not too certain 5DD oki will work anymore, maybe on characters like Labrys, Liz, Slab who don't have any kind of options for it, but Narukami DP beats it out the start up every time. It might just be a distance thing though, a lot of hits whiff from 5DD if you're too close so it might need some tinkering with.

Ill head into training mode and see if I can come up with anything. Will also try some new Tsurugi setups too

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OK, thanks for the explanation. I got a bit confused and it sounded like to me that I just do straight off 66 5A into tsurugi in certain situations. Gonna practice this in training mode and see how it turns out in my matches.

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Gotta go for the 'LOOK MA I'M NARUKAMI' and do fuzzy j.A >5DD > j.B land combo.

Edit: For the love of god never do anything on block into spike it will result in you dying miserably

Edited by E$ports

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Edit: For the love of god never do anything on block into spike it will result in you dying miserably

This x1000.

Not sure how you're setting up 5DD to lose to Narukami DP (I'm not saying you should always beat it).

Are you doing...

- some move(s) > 5D then 5DD meaty and losing to DP?

- 5D > poke > 5DD and losing to DP?

- 5DD > jump and losing to DP (being air unblockable)

obviously if he blocks 5DD, he can't DP so.... :psyduck:

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So, I was playing around with the setup a bit in training mode. I set the dummy to jump and noticed that I can only get the sweep to connect once in awhile. I try to sweep as soon as possible, but still miss it sometimes. Hopefully I don't have that issue against live players.

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So, I was playing around with the setup a bit in training mode. I set the dummy to jump and noticed that I can only get the sweep to connect once in awhile. I try to sweep as soon as possible, but still miss it sometimes. Hopefully I don't have that issue against live players.

Either your spacing or timing is off. Or characters have different jump startups. As a rule though I've usually been able to catch people jumping out of spikes with sweep, which combos into spike, j.B/DP whateva.

Clarification: I thought that mighta been unclear, but there's 3 reasons it wouldn't work all the time. One is as Eshi said, if you're too far...but like sweep only has 3 active frames so I don't even know if that makes that big of a difference. It might break it! Another one is that you might be doing the sweep too late. Remember, Labrys is a character who has to commit to her mixup, so if you want to do a sweep catch, you DON'T hold the spike and sweep as early as possible. Learn to advanced input to make sure it's always out frame 1! That's an execution issue. Also, maybe some characters have different jump startups? I don't know.

Edited by E$ports

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Yea, it's definitely an execution fault on my part. I only tried it on Aigis as the dummy. I don't know about anyone else. My distance was done at point blank range in training mode. I'm still bad with execution with this game >.< I tried to spam sweep as soon as I execute Tsurugi and that seems to work; it is just not consistent for me yet.

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