[P4A] Labrys - Optimal Oki Thread

[edollarports]

Yep, just practice!

[donkatsu]

Yep, just practice!

Yep, I've been practicing this setup. Mainly focus doing backhops (9 > AT > 6) in the blockstrings in the oki pressure. Something about doing backhops in blockstring I can't quite get down 100% with hours of practice at the moment. I can do it well when I'm on right side, but not as good on the left >.<

[Eshi]

wow I got stickied lol ;3 I'll try to update my first post soon with some of the info being posted here, but I'm hella busy this week. I'm really happy to have rekindled the interest of other Labrys players! She's a really fun character.

[donkatsu]

I've practiced the oki setup quite a bit for past couple of days and decided to try it out on net play. I was playing someone that would roll on wake up all the time, but my sweep wouldn't land >.< There were some lags in those matches, so I don't know if that could be an issue or not. Either case, I haven't had any success landing the sweep against rolls and jump backs with my oki.

[Surf]

Just do the Sweep > 22A > Throw setup. Beats rolls 100% of the time. Dont go for something that's unnecessarily harder

[TransientFaith]

It was also noted if you land a close sweep, you can go for meaty 2a. This will either hit them out of roll (being meaty) or you will recover in time to punish the roll ideally with either CH 5A > 2B or CH 5AA 236AB (with meter). Not sure if you have enough time to 5B in that situation

[donkatsu]

Well, the sweeps I think I've done were not point blank range and that's probably the problem. In the past, I couldn't land a 5a/2a or throw in those cases and I thought a sweep would be able to land better. I did practice with dummy and it seem to work. But I think combination of lag and my split second slowness in execution is probably the problem. In any case, I haven't had any real success with Labrys' oki so far.

[Surf]

Well it depends on what character you would be doing that against. The best Sweep route I can think of is Starter > Sweep > 22[C] > Sweep. Stops rolls and upbacks. It's really good when you get the spacing right. So even if they decide to just sit and block it, the Tsurugi afterwards should make the Sweep safe. This one should also be used when their quite a bit of space between you and the opponent. Like if you caught them with a max range Sweep during neutral. Like I said before. Read through the guide I made awhile back and read exactly what her setups usually win against and what they lose against. Knowing their options and the answers for those options is what makes Tsurugi really effective.

But as Trasient said a close one is good with meaty 5/2A's. But it's extremely unsafe against certain characters, especially 2A since you cant jump cancel it.

[TransientFaith]

Well...2A meaty is as unsafe as 5A meaty. It's not like they can punish 2A meaty, you just dont get as many mixup options without the jump cancel. Though you do get 2A > Throw that you wouldn't normally get with 5A.

In the case 2A meaty is blocked, you can just block (lose pressure) or take risks and try to make them safe with the set chain (lose damage from no chain hit)

As noted in Eshi's first post, DP beats everything (bar roll), so 5A and 2A are equally bad in this case.

Edited April 5, 2013 by TransientFaith

[donkatsu]

In the past, when I try to do the oki, people either, jump back, roll, or DP. It's a guessing game that I've lost majority of. I really want to take away the jump back and roll. I wish the people would just sit back and block for once lol, so I can at least try doing some mix ups. Based on Eshi's guide, doing a close sweep after tsurugi (I'm doing B version), would make my opponents think twice about roll or jump back. Honestly think maybe it's the lag + spacing because I try to sweep as soon as possible, but all the people I played against simply jump away or roll... I really don't have any answers to this other than my execution is bad I guess.

Edited April 5, 2013 by donkatsu

[Surf]

certain characters,

She has an answer/tsurugi setup for every DP in the game except Kanji's (Other then just blocking). But A's are one of the setups that are very punishable.

[TransientFaith]

In the past, when I try to do the oki, people either, jump back, roll, or DP. It's a guessing game that I've lost majority of. I really want to take away the jump back and roll. I wish the people would just sit back and block for once lol, so I can at least try doing some mix ups. Based on Eshi's guide, doing a close sweep after tsurugi (I'm doing B version), would make my opponents think twice about roll or jump back. Honestly think maybe it's the lag + spacing because I try to sweep as soon as possible, but all the people I played against simply jump away or roll... I really don't have any answers to this other than my execution is bad I guess.

Pretty standard problem with this game. It's like Surfeit says in the last post, she has options to beat most setups. However, wakeup in this game is whack where the pressuring side has to make big guesses/risks and half the time it doesn't work. You get SOME advantage in this game for knocking down, but its nowhere near the extent of other games where they have to guess a 50/50 with universal DPs, rolls, jump outs, backdash, 5A, blah blah blah

Just keep practicing and something will click.

[donkatsu]

I honestly think 5C is a better oki option. It beats rolls, jump backs, DP and only loses to some wake up supers. After that it is 50/50 with the sweep or guillotine for overhead (people can still react to guillotine, but still...). Obviously you lose lot of potential damage because one hit of sweep/guillotine doesn't do much damage. But I think it builds momentum due to better success rate. This is like the only time I've been successful using oki with labrys.

[Eshi]

I've practiced the oki setup quite a bit for past couple of days and decided to try it out on net play. I was playing someone that would roll on wake up all the time, but my sweep wouldn't land >.< There were some lags in those matches, so I don't know if that could be an issue or not. Either case, I haven't had any success landing the sweep against rolls and jump backs with my oki.

I said this in the OP - sweep does not work as an oki option. It has 15 frames of start-up no matter what, it will get rolled for free. Also sweep/guillotine is not only reactable, but can also be blocked by habitually shifting from crouch block to stand block since guillotine is always slower. That's why I think Labrys players should never do it on good opponents and always do meaty 5A instead. It explicitly beats every disrespectful wake-up option except for DP.

I haven't experimented with meaty 5C yet, I've gotta try that some time.

Well...2A meaty is as unsafe as 5A meaty. It's not like they can punish 2A meaty, you just dont get as many mixup options without the jump cancel. Though you do get 2A > Throw that you wouldn't normally get with 5A.

In the case 2A meaty is blocked, you can just block (lose pressure) or take risks and try to make them safe with the set chain (lose damage from no chain hit)

As noted in Eshi's first post, DP beats everything (bar roll), so 5A and 2A are equally bad in this case.

2A is actually slightly more unsafe than 5A because it loses to command hop which has frame 1 invulnerability to lows Edited April 5, 2013 by Eshi

[redsilversnake]

I honestly think 5C is a better oki option. It beats rolls, jump backs, DP and only loses to some wake up supers. After that it is 50/50 with the sweep or guillotine for overhead (people can still react to guillotine, but still...). Obviously you lose lot of potential damage because one hit of sweep/guillotine doesn't do much damage. But I think it builds momentum due to better success rate. This is like the only time I've been successful using oki with labrys.

5C is indeed a better meaty, but it's more limited, especially if the opponent up-backs. It's not really any better than the stuff Eshi's posted. I'd say to only use it if you land guillotine rather than sweep.

[donkatsu]

OK, I guess I misread what the setup was. I thought it was like knockdown/tsurugi > sweep > Tsurugi hits > Meaty 5A > mix up. Then when people start blocking sweep to 5A, I can just go for straight into meaty 5A and cross up using held down tsurugi.

Edited April 5, 2013 by donkatsu

[Eshi]

OK, I guess I misread what the setup was. I thought it was like knockdown/tsurugi > sweep > Tsurugi hits > Meaty 5A > mix up. So your setup really is to meaty 5A and cross up using held down tsurugi?

Sweep is only used for the knockdown. Sweep > Tsurugi means to special cancel the sweep into laying down the Tsurugi, which puts Labrys at about 9-10 frames of advantage. That's why attempting another sweep on wake-up always loses to roll.

[donkatsu]

Got it, I'll only try meaty 5A or roll for DP punishes. But this still feels not that great because there are many times I don't land sweep point blank range >.< Since Labry's 5A is a bit slow compared to others I only seem to land it when I have a slight distance.

Is backhop (9 > AT > 6) a decent alternative to rolls? I think you can safe jump most DP with it.

Edited April 5, 2013 by donkatsu

[Eshi]

Got it, I'll only try meaty 5A or roll for DP punishes. But this still feels not that great because there are many times I don't land sweep point blank range >.< Since Labry's 5A is a bit slow compared to others I only seem to land it when I have a slight distance.

Yeah. As I point out in the OP, if sweep doesn't land point blank then Labrys can't really get anything different and is easily disrespected. My solution is to never land it further than point blank, to even cut combos a bit short for absolute certainty. I don't understand your problem in the last sentence is.

Is backhop (9 > AT > 6) a decent alternative to rolls? I think you can safe jump most DP with it.

Hmm, I'm not sure if it would be fast enough to safe cross-up in this situation. Worth checking out to make sure of though.

[donkatsu]

What I meant is that when I do the standard bnb (5a > 5b > sweep), the initial 5A doesn't usually connect at point blank in most situation for me which results in the sweep landing a bit far off. I think I tend space the 5A in order to avoid getting out hit by the faster 5A. But I think I get what you are saying. Maybe I can skip like 5B if it means that I can land sweep closer for example or just try to hit more meaty with my starter.

[edollarports]

5A 5B sweep 22B into sweep usually stops jumps, despite not being meaty. I don't get how people are upbacking out of it except at max range since there's jump startup and no early blocking blah blah blah.

2A's got the same startup as 5A, as I said earlier, so it's a good low check and has less recovery. You've got less options if they block it. Not like it matters, you don't really have much in the line of options. Hit the buttons faster!

I don't like meaty 5C because 5C after sweep puts you a bit too close and I'm not sure it even hits meaty. I know for a fact that sweep>214A into 5C is fraudulent as shit and will make you eat wakeup superjump and you will die.

[donkatsu]

Well sweep > 214A into 5C at least is only vulnerable to wake up supers. That is the case with any other approaches though except for rolls.

[edollarports]

No, sweep > 214A into 5C loses to wakeup superjump. Baaaad idea. Especially if they know to just jump at you.

Edited April 5, 2013 by E$ports

[donkatsu]

oh wake up super jump? lol I actually never seen anyone do that to me yet. I didn't think you can jump your way out of 5C since it kinda also hits high. Most people just do regular jump back and end up being knocked down.

[edollarports]

Yeah, it's not the most common knowledge. This character is so ass that no one even knows how ass the character is. The NJ players at least know to sj forward on wakeup. With that move's recovery, you ARE going to get hit for it.