Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Eshi

[P4A] Labrys - Optimal Oki Thread

Recommended Posts

Cool guide. One thing though, do you have any setup under green axe? I think if I get hit confirms in yellow/red axe in corner, I would be more tempted to just go for damage instead with omc or omb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was experimenting last night and she has some 5DD oki setups midscreen. But I'd only use it after a Tsurugi confirm. Only works in Yellow or Red Axe. Example is:

Tsurugi hits > j.B > 5AA > 5D

You kind of have to delay the 5AA or the 5D a little bit. They will tech and the arrows will hit them very meaty. Stopping everything except invul reversals. If you did the 5AA kind of far away, you can bait and punish certain DPs like Akihikos and Chies. Didnt really experiment with the other characters much. But anyway, here are some decent setups

Tsurugi hits > j.B > 5AA > 5D > jump > 5DD > land > 2A

Standard empty jump low. Or you can j.B them in the air if you want

Tsurugi hits > j.B > 5AA > 5D > 214A > 5DD

Overhead into more oki. The 5DD wont be active that long after they tech from getting hit with the 214A, but the one or two arrows will be meaty enough to stop everything except invul moves.

Tsurugi hits > j.B > 5AA > 5D > dash 5A~5DD > IAD

Same as the Tsurugi cross up setup. And still hard as hell to see coming or block.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really nice stuff! I'm gonna work on updating the OP, can't wait to experiment later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Experimented with a midscreen Tsurugi combo I did by accident about a week ago. It's great corner carry. And some decent oki in the corner as well if you got them there.

New Path:

(j.B >) 5AA > 214AB > 22[D] > 2A > Release D > 5B

j.B starter doesnt work with Green Axe. This sends them into the Tsurugi from 5B (and looks pretty swag). From the P2 side on match start it sends them near corner. You can run in and easily continue the combo after this. Putting them in the corner. After the Tsurugi has them in place and their near the corner you have two options. Tsurugi or 5D oki. As the combo prorates a lot your other options are pretty null and void. This is best 5D setup I found from this route.

(j.B >) 5AA > 214AB > 22[D] > 2A > Release D > 5B > Tsurugi catches them > run in charged 5B > Sweep(w) , 5D

You must space the 5B correctly for the Sweep to whiff. While your running in start holding 5B when your about a characters width away from them. Labrys should slide a bit and be at the perfect range. It takes some practice though. The purpose of the whiffed Sweep is to lessen the frame advantage and bring you closer to them after the 5B. 5D from the whiffed Sweep is a link. And if you timed it right the 5D should be very meaty on their wakeup. Making jumpouts and rolls useless. This setup is also DP safe to every DP except Liz, Naoto, Yosuke, and Teddie. But for Liz, Naoto, and Yosuke, simply jumping after the 5D will avoid all their DPs. But in the case of Naoto her shot will hit you blocking and drop you back down. Teddie, wouldnt advise using it on him at all. Everyone elses DP whiffs/derp fails if you space correctly. Now that you have them scared to DP, you can try this psuedo safe jump I came up with a little afterwards.

(j.B >) 5AA > 214AB > 22[D] > 2A > Release D > 5B > Tsurugi catches them > run in charged 5B > Sweep(w) , 5D - dash 5A > (2B) > jump and hold 3~5DD

You can go into either empty jump 2A, or very late j.A. j.B is too slow in this case.

But theres a lot going on in the safe jump setup. And in the end it all comes full circle. The inital 5D hits meaty making rolls and jumpouts useless. Then, if you space correctly their DP attempts will fail as well. So they have no choice but to sit and block. Theres no gap between the 5D and dash 5A so your safe from DPs. But Counter Assaults can become an issue. If you see they have the meter for one you can play it safe and just omit the 5A part. But if they do have meter and they counter assault either the 5D arrows too late, or the 5A, their welcomed by 5DD arrows and a confirm. 2B is optional, but 5A from 2B create a gap where DP's can hit you. But 2B helps for the next problem, which is a second roll attempt. After the jump and the 5DD there's a small gap where they can roll through. If you just went 5A > jump 5DD the blockstun from the 5A and the fact you pressed 5DD earlier will create that gap for them. Even if Ariadne is positioned correctly. Ill try to come up with a more universal solution though. Maybe rising j.A, ill experiment when I get home. With the 2B, it will place them in more blockstun and the 5DD will be later since you will be using 2B to jump now. So if they try to roll after you jump, they'll be CH by the arrows very easily. Going for 2B also gets hit by Counter Assaults if they attempted one.

This entire setup can be used from any Tsurugi confirm really. Given that their near corner.

And if you just want corner carry you can simple do:

(j.B)5AA > 214AB > 22[D] > 2A > Release D > 5B > IAD j.B > Sweep > Tsurugi oki

Or 236A/B~6~A after the Tsurugi catches them to send them even further into the corner. You can run a bit and jump back j.D to keep them in blockstun after they air tech

Don't use the safe jump against Akihiko or Yu. 5DD is a pretty good move. If the attack level was just higher... It would be more effective. It places them in such a small amount of blockstun that those holes appear in the pressure and hurts the usage of the normal. Its also a crap starter/combo filler.

Edited by Surf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem. Im just exploring 5DD myself. Been doing Tsurugi stuff this entire time. Even j.D with the right application is pretty silly in the corner. Ive been experimenting with some oki involving that has well. But its not looking too hot because of the stupid amount of landing recovery she's forced in after using it.

Gah. This thread is making me want to play the game again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno. I watched some replays the other day and my Labrys was really good, around Sep-Nov. Compared to now. I may or not pick it back up. But in the meantime, I will try to continue creating tech for others to use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a variation of Eshi's oki set up that I think might work. I tried it out only a few times in net play and I got it working one time :)

Sweep > Tsurugi A[Hold] > dash 5A > J.B > Tsurugi hits

Basically the same concept of using meaty 5A and IAD for crossing up, except that J.B from the 5A cancel should cross up and hit then combo into the Tsurugi. If the opponents manage to block the cross up J.B, then you got the tsurugi covering up for you to do your next mix up.

Depending on the distance, you can use the A or B version of tsurugi.

I haven't seen anyone do 5A cancel to J.B for cross up in any videos. Is there anything wrong with that? I tried it a bit and it seem to work really well as mix up which gave me the idea to use it on oki too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't seen anyone do 5A cancel to J.B for cross up in any videos. Is there anything wrong with that? I tried it a bit and it seem to work really well as mix up which gave me the idea to use it on oki too.

Its decent for a cross-up. I use it sometimes. Its better if you use the B version of tsurugi since your opponent will be in that area for the 5A meaty for the cross up. Alot of times you wont be within the range where you can 5A meaty after a sweep if you are using 5A>5B>Sweep though. 2A>5B>Sweep into the setup works better since you wont be out of the range of meaty 5A as often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well from what I tried out in practice mode, if you do this setup in point blank, it is better to do the Tsurugi A because the J.B will knock back the dummy into the range of Tsurugi A. If you do tsurugi B, the meaty 5A will put the dummy in the range of tsurugi B first, but then the J.B will push it back to the former spot and tsurugi B will miss. And yea, I really need to get in habit of doing 2a starter more. I tend to mess up a lot when I try to do 2A > 5B by doing 2A > 2B instead >.<. I usually have a habit of trying to confirm the 2a by doing another 2a before I do the bnb too. Need to practice that more in real matches because I'm fine with that in training mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure they can anti air or DP you during the gap between the 5A and when your airborne though. Setup would mostly be effective against really honest players. And it's not as hard to see coming as the IAD variant for example. Seems iffy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep there is a gap and it can be anti aired or DP, but it would depend on whether it can be countered on reaction. From what I've seen in training mode, the J.B seem to come out pretty fast despite the gap. And since most people expect you to 5AA or 5B from the 5A with maybe a mix up of IAD AT to safe jump most DP, maybe it will work. I haven't used it extensively to see how effective it is. I think it's just another mix up to keep the opponents honest I guess...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pretty sure they can anti air or DP you during the gap between the 5A and when your airborne though. Setup would mostly be effective against really honest players. And it's not as hard to see coming as the IAD variant for example. Seems iffy

They can dp.

Im not a fan of tsurugi oki midscreen since you get DPed often for it.

Its better to go for dmg/corner carry on yellow/Red axe. Its ok midscreen but its still not hard to block in general.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually liked midscreen more because she has more options for her mixup. But after going through all this 5DD stuff, I'd say I like corner more now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Her midscreen oki stuff becomes a gimmick after a certain point.

The corner is better overall but I need to revise things.

Plus I've ranback matches just from using this stuff.

The timing for Corner: LVL 3 Axe 5AAA>AOA>5D oki is really hard and I dropped it on netplay so Im going to find a 5AA>EX Guillotine Axe combo for oki instead in the corner.

The other things I can do fine though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Her midscreen oki stuff becomes a gimmick after a certain point.

The corner is better overall but I need to revise things.

Plus I've ranback matches just from using this stuff.

The timing for Corner: LVL 3 Axe 5AAA>AOA>5D oki is really hard and I dropped it on netplay so Im going to find a 5AA>EX Guillotine Axe combo for oki instead in the corner.

The other things I can do fine though

This entire character is a gimmick

Maybe you should do an action after the AoA so you can manage the massive frame advantage better. I'll test something out now.

Hm. Simple but I found that walking back a small amount after the AoA recovers then inputting 5D is a really great way to time it. Getting it consistently.

Edited by Surf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was playing my friends Yukiko earlier tonight and AoA > 5D oki was beast. Even if they decide not to tech into the 5D they still have to deal witb the 5DD arrows. Pretty much was able to block DP, Counter Assaults, and Burst attempts clean. The slight walk back worked really well instead of just timing and the 5B in yellow/red axe. Something somwhat frusrating to do in oniline lag

And Tecta I was messing around with some of your 5D combo stuff and came up with a pretty damaging corner oki route. One thing that bothered me from my set last night was I kept going into charge 5B > charge 5B > Sweep > more oki from a 214A or throw tsurugi confirm in the corner. Pretty lame, dunno if it was from rust but I couldn't think of a better confirm. So here, worked on some. Both work in Yellow and Red

Yellow Axe. Given that your doing oki. You must have gotten a confirm beforehand, so it's possible to go into these routes from Green as well. As long as your in Yellow when the AoA hits, your good.

Throw > Tsurugi hits > charged 5B > 5D > dash 5A > 5DD > AoA > Tsurugi/walk back slightly 5D

(2748 DMG (2908 in Red)/20 SP)

214A needs a different route though

214A > Tsurugi hits > dash in charged 5B > 5D > 2B > 5DD > AoA > Tsurugi/walk back slightly 5D

(2662 DMG (2854 in Red)/26 SP)

These are good meterless damage for setting even more oki. Ideal spacing after the AoA as well, well the Throw variant is. Your a bit closer during the 214A one. But if you opt to go into 5D oki after the Throw variant, absolutely no DP in the game will work except Teddie's. Everyone else's will fail if you just hold back after 5D recovers (or jump in Yosuke and Liz's case.) For the 2B > 5DD > AoA part, you have to press 5DD as soon as the 2B connects and very slightly delay the cancel from 2B into AoA. Takes some getting used to, but it's not too hard.

In Red Axe you get another route.

214A/Throw > Tsurugi hits > dash in charged 5B > 5D > 5A > 5DD > charged 5B

214A starter (2692 DMG/27 SP)

Throw starter (3025 DMG/27 SP)

Again you can go into either Tsurugi or 5D but with even more frame advantage this time. However its harder to time the meaty 5D after they go sliding from the charged 5B. This route doesnt work in Green or Yellow Axe though. But you can get a pretty silly reset from it.

214A/Throw > Tsurugi hits > dash in charged 5B > 5D > 5A > 5DD > charged 5B > delay 214B

They will tech very suddenly from the charged 5B before they hit the ground. And if they didnt hold back fast enough to block, 214B will hit them. From there, you can go into a OMC/OMB confirm. You should be in Red Axe by then if you started the combo in Yellow (Should be in Yellow if you started from Green Axe). A basic reset can do 70%+ or Death.

Edit: Lol. If you super jump after the 5A > 5DD you can appear behind them in the corner.

Edited by Surf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Easiest BI corner combo is 50 meter from tsurugi hit (red axe, yellow??? and awakening implied of course)

tsurugi > charge 5b > 22a > 5a > 2b > BI A > 5a > I have no idea what to do here if they aren't dead haha maybe >AA AoA

Why would you hold 3 after a jump in the corner? unless your 2P and your holding down-back that way??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awakening super is the main catch. Anything that floats into 214AB will grab you a BI assuming you haven't prorated the combo too bad, although you gotta be ready to microdash if you're farther away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just learned on yellow axe starter you can also do this corner:

5A>5B>236A~A> 5AA>2C>214A 5DD Oki (2.3k)

5A>5B>236A~A> 5AA>5AA>2C>214A 5DD Oki (2.4k)

Im not sure about this yet on a yellow 5A starter

5A>5B>236A~A> 5AA>2C>Charged 5B> Tsurugi oki/5D oki DMG ???

I tried a 2A starter but I only got it to work when the axe turned red on the 1st 5A during the 5AA part.

It wouldn't work from a 2A starter unless you already have some yellow axe meter built up for the axe to turn red on the 1st 5A during the 5AA part.

There's a micro-delay on the 5AA part

Edited by Tecta1Eastside

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. In my pursuit to find some optimal combos, I came up with a midscreen 5D oki route. Really which it didnt use meter though, wouldve been alot more effective if it didnt. Builds a decent amount of Axe

There are several routes to go into it. DP loop combos, SB Guillotine combos, CH 5B, etc. Basically anything that can lead into CH/FC DP mid combo. This is actually a good ender if you do the DP loop combo too close to the corner, where they would bounce back too early and the 5A would be to slow to continue the combo. Just opt to go into oki

Confirm > 214AB > 22~D > microdash 5A > 5B~D > Max Charge B+D > 5D

Confirm can consist of

5AA

j.B > 5AA

Can do it off CH 5B too

CH 5B > 5C > 2C > Max Charge B+D > 5D

And remember, another route I said awhile back that I only suggest on a prorated combo and only works on yellow or red axe.

j.B > 5AA > delay 5D

Edited by Surf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finding more stuff. Now it's j.D oki. The confirm is pretty similar to another one I posted here

5AA > 214AB > 22[b/C/D] > 2A > 5B~B/C/D > IAD j.BB > j.D > Rising j.A > Mixup (j.A, 2A, late airdash j.A)

Its decent corner carry and builds from green axe to mid/late yellow axe. And from green/yellow it goes straight to red.

5B~Tsurugi send them flying near the corner where it will be most effective. After the j.BB they should tech, so j.D would hit them meaty. Rising j.A is for the high low mixup while their blocking j.D. And if their not completely in the corner from it, you can even cross them up, which is kind of hard to see which side because of j.D's hitbox. If they air tech backwards they tech right into j.D's last gear and drop back down. Neutral tech they fall to the ground but cant jump and must deal with your mixup. Teching forwards gets them hit with the first gear but its the safest way for them to get out.

Second route is for corner. And its meterless. But loses to forward air tech completely, sadly.

You can do it from any corner Tsurugi confirm. Any axe level.

Confirm > Tsurugi hits > dash in charge 5B > 22[A]~D > 5AA~D > j.BB > j.D

Air teching backwards will have them within j.D's hitbox again and they will be in blockstun unable to do anything until they hit the ground. Neutral teching has them in blockstun in the air for a bit before hitting the ground. Your still granted frame advantage. Interesting to note that j.DD has a wallbounce effect, so they bounce off the wall and enter blockstun from j.D. Its very small, but there's a window where you can IAD, appear behind them, and j.B for a deceptive crossup. This route is actually pretty decent damage for a Tsurugi confirm. 2.5k in yellow and 2.7k in red axe.

The only character who can punish on neutral tech are Yu, Mitsuru, and Aigis. Since they can DP in the air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought of another oki setup, like 5A > air dash cross-up or no cross-up. End the combo with sweep > 22b and don't hold, then do 5A > IAD > air turn > jB. tsurugi locks them in block stun right after 5A so they can't just 2b labrys out, and she can determine whether or not she wants to cross up with spacing or height or whatever. It's ridiculously ambiguous. The hard part is isolating how to choose the side to hit on from any spacing. Make sure to delay the 5A a little bit so they don't get cross-up protection on the jB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yay, I have a completely new oki safe jump + option select to blow up Yu/Mitsuru/Aegis/Akihiko!

End a corner combo (possibly midscreen?) with charge 5B. This gives Labrys ample time to execute a safe jump with jB. Example: AOA > 5AA > 2C > 5D > hold 5B > 5DD > release 5B. This is very obviously safe against start-up invulnerable moves - as long as labrys holds back, she'll just land and block.

HOWEVER, I figured out that she can do an OS with jB > 214~B. Now not only will she safely block something start-up invincible, but she'll also cancel into air guillotine on block for a double overhead. from there you can OMC or OMB for a very painful combo. you can always opt for 2A once they know about the double overhead, but their R-Actions get safe jumped either way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×