ACR combo discussion

[Ice Cube]

Since the PS Vita version is out, and the lack of online mode means it's only good for combo experimenting, thought that a thread for early players to discuss combos would be appropriate.

(coin means 236HS, high coin means 214HS)

MF-P(2) loop:

The starters:

6K > MF-P(2)

5K > 6P > MF-P(2)

5K > 2D > MF-P(2) (character specific, range specific. Works wonders on Baiken. Should use on lightweights)

5K > 2D > MC(2) > 5K > 5HS > MF-P(2) (character specific)

Throw > MF-P(2), not recommended for obvious reasons.

5K > (c.S) > 2D > Jackhound, 5K>5HS or f.S > MF-P(2)

Coin/high coin anti-air

Corner 5K > (c.S) > 5HS > MF-K(2), coin, dash 5HS > MF-P(2), (optional loop), ender. Not sure if the Enkasu ender works here.

Corner point-blank/near point-black MF-K(2), high coin, 3HS > 6HS > MF-P(2). For those delicious corner mist setup. Huge damage.

The loop:

Midscreen loop: MF-P(2), delay coin, dash (optional 5HS for normal/heavy weight) > MF-P(2), repeat until appropriately close to corner (or you don't want to waste more coins)

Corner loop: MF-P(2), slight delay coin, (optional 5HS for normal/heavy weight) > MF-P(2)

High damage corner loop: MF-P(2), high coin, 3HS > (coin hits) > 6HS > MF-P(2). This push Johnny back too far and let the opponent float too low, so most enders (knockdown, mist, enkasu) wouldn't work on normal/heavy weights. It's a bit better on lightweights, but I can't seem to do Mist ender properly.

25% meter midscreen loop: MF-P(2), delay coin, MF stance, coin hits, Jackhound, 5S > 5HS > MF-P(2)

25% meter corner loop: MF-P(2), coin, dash jump j.SH > KJ FRC, j.HD, MF-P(2)

Most of the time, the coins prorate too much for these variations to be worth the 25% meter.

The ender:

Easy-mode ender: MF-P(2), coin, dash jump air combo > Ensenga. Works at all range. If you're too far away, change dash jump to IAD.

Mist ender: MF-P(2), high coin, mist (Lv2 + Mist)

Knockdown ender: MF-P(2), high coin, (depending on range) f.S or 5K>5HS>DBT DB (Lv2 + Knockdown)

Damage ender: MF-P(2), high coin, 3HS > (coin hits) > 6HS > j.S > Enkasu (Lv2 + Damage)

Oki ender: MF-P(2), high coin, 3HS > (coin hits) > 6HS > MF-P(2), throw a high coin for best oki setup. (Lv1 + Damage + Best oki)

Enkasu ender: MF-P(2), coin, IAD j.PSD/j.KSD enkasu. (Lv2 + Mist + Knockdown). Pat yourself on the back every time you pull this off I guess.

ACR Johnny can recoin + mist / knockdown from lots of starter, even midscreen, without resorting to ridiculously bound-to-fail midscreen enkasus. Good stuff.

Throw combos

New coin combos:

Throw, delay 5HS > coin (SO, PO, BR,...

Throw, high coin (BA,...) (reliable Baiken coin option!)

New (probably) DB knockdown combos, sorted by damage:

Throw, 5HS > DBT DB (all non-lightweights)

Throw, dash j.PSH DB (FA, PO, BR, ED, AN, BA, KY) (ED & AN timing is tough)

Throw, dash j.SH DB (FA, SO, DI, ...) (tight timing)

Throw, dash j.KSH DB (FA, BA, KY) (for 3 extra damage, not worth the much more difficult timing)

Throw, dash j.PSSH DB (FA, SO,...)

MF-S(2) midscreen combos:

5K > (c.S) > 5H > MF-S(2), jump(7) j.KSSH / j.SSH (on lightweights) > air overdrive, dash 5K > c.S > coin. 200 something + recoin. Worth the meter.

5K > (c.S) > 5H > MF-S(2), back dash 5S > high coin (if the opponent crossed up, change the motion to 236H). 120 something + recoin

5K > (c.S) > 5H > MF-S(2), jump(7) j.SSH>DB. Meterless knockdown combo for Sol and Slayer. Also works on lightweights but will not knockdown.

(Pot-only) 5K > (c.S) > 5H > MF-S(2), backdash 5S > 5HS > coin (124) (or 5K > 5S > 5HS > high coin, a bit more damage but less reliable)

(Pot-only) 5K > (c.S) > 5H > MF-S(2), backdash c.S > j.KSH > DB (153 + knockdown)

Misc combos:

(5HS CH) > MF-S(1), high coin. Yes, MF-S(1) floats now, it's damn strange.

[qwerty]

One thing I'm seeing a lot now is after 2-3 high mist finers, you throw an up coin, dash, then 3H -> 6H into one more high mist finer. Seems like a good way to increase damage output, for no meter to boot.

[Ice Cube]

Nice combo. Johnny can throw a high coin afterwards for his best oki setup. There's also the option of changing the last high MF to j.S > Ensenga for higher damage and retain level 2. Added to first post.

Saw a new loop ender from the latest Mikado batch by Satou: MF-P(2), coin, dash jump j.SH KJ FRC j.HD, land MF-P(2), coin, short air combo. It doesn't do that much more damage than the above combo, and spend 25%, so it's more flashy than practical. Still added for reference.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

So I couldn't resist buying this for some Johnny practice on lunch breaks.

Thanks to our new high coin, we have this really nice MF level-gain BnB that includes an air combo now.

5K > 6P > high coin > 5K > (coin hits) > jK > jS > jK > jS > jD > Ensenga

We can also go straight into MF-P(2) loops now without already having level 2. It's just a simple 5K > 6P > High coin > f.S (may not be possible on all characters, the timing is really tight) > (coin hits) > MF-P(2). I don't know how useful this actually is though.

There's something really weird with this. During this setup it's actually possible to start at Level 2, yet somehow land a coin and not go to level 3 immediately. In Training I'm doing > (already level 2) > f.S > (coin hits) > MF-P(2) > (I have level 2 still). I think it may actually be doing MF-P(2) > (coin hits) but it's happening on almost the same frame that it's hard to tell. The coin doesn't seem to interrupt the enemy's aerial movement though so you can continue as normal.

After some tinkering, I remembered that the reason this happens is because level 2 is faster than level 1. So this is pretty fucking incredible. At level 1 we get this instant > go to level 2 > MF-P(2) immediately. At Level 2 we get MF-P(2) > instant recoin. It's really, really nice. This can be used to remove the need to recoin after a MF-(2), so you're free to just end it with a powerful damage combo/go for oki.

----

I've also confirmed 5K > c.S > tk air overdrive > Dash > 5K > c.S > air combo. Does some pretty good damage completely coinless. I've yet to find something I think is optimal though.

Also, it looks swaggy as fuck

[Killerwatt]

So I couldn't resist buying this for some Johnny practice on lunch breaks.

Thanks to our new high coin, we have this really nice MF level-gain BnB that includes an air combo now.

5K > 6B > high coin > 5B > (coin hits) > jB > jS > jB > jS > jD > Ensenga

We can also go straight into MF-P(2) loops now without already having level 2. It's just a simple 5K > 6P > High coin > f.S (may not be possible on all characters, the timing is really tight) > (coin hits) > MF-P(2). I don't know how useful this actually is though.

There's something really weird with this. During this setup it's actually possible to start at Level 2, yet somehow land a coin and not go to level 3 immediately. In Training I'm doing > (already level 2) > f.S > (coin hits) > MF-P(2) > (I have level 2 still). I think it may actually be doing MF-P(2) > (coin hits) but it's happening on almost the same frame that it's hard to tell. The coin doesn't seem to interrupt the enemy's aerial movement though so you can continue as normal.

After some tinkering, I remembered that the reason this happens is because level 2 is faster than level 1. So this is pretty fucking incredible. At level 1 we get this instant > go to level 2 > MF-P(2) immediately. At Level 2 we get MF-P(2) > instant recoin. It's really, really nice. This can be used to remove the need to recoin after a MF-(2), so you're free to just end it with a powerful damage combo/go for oki.

----

I've also confirmed 5K > c.S > tk air overdrive > Dash > 5K > c.S > air combo. Does some pretty good damage completely coinless. I've yet to find something I think is optimal though.

Also, it looks swaggy as fuck

"6B"? Don't think there's a B button in GG. Does it mean something else?

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Okay so here's the final version of the combo I've been working on. It works from any level of Mist, but what's unique about is that if you start with Level 2, you can instantly recoin back into Level 2 and then do a combo without worrying about having to recoin. The combo still works if you hit Level 3, but it's a waste of levels at the point because you should've just gone for MF-S(2) instead. There is some character specific weirdness due to their hitboxes/weight that I've listed below.

Doesn't work on: Bridget, Millia, Baiken, Dizzy, Johnny*, May*, Potemkin*, Justice*, Faust*

*High coin hits these characters immediately upon use.

Level 2 Re-coin doesn't work on: Slayer, Eddie, Jam, Kliff**, I-NO**

*On these characters, the combo goes to Level 3 if you start from Level 2. Level 3 is still comboable though, and does more damage. MF-S(2) is preferable to a Level 3, however, so you should avoid using this combo on these characters when starting from Level 2.

**Can't be hit by 5K either, your only option with these two is the f.S version

f.S Level 2 Re-coin doesn't work on*: ABA, Anji, Axl, Chipp, Testament

*On these characters you can still do a 5K version and get the level 2 re-coin

Input:

5K > 6P > high coin > 5K/f.S (very strict link) > MF-P(2) > 66 6H > jS > jS > Ensenga [DM: 165'ish]

Tip for high coin > f.S: hit the S button right when Johnny's grin disappears.

----

EDIT: I just barely discovered that it is possible to do midscreen j.D > wallbounce > air combo off of this setup. Not sure if it can lead to something better yet though.

Random Note: jK is noticeably even less optimal than it was in AC+

[Tsukahara]

I only got it today, but just messing out trying some stuff, and WOAH, throw is a million times better too.

Throw > coin > MF-P(2) >Delayed coin >IAD >j.PKDE can snag a one hit from midscreen and carries pretty much all the way to the corner. Alternatively you can easy mode it with MSJH, but eehhhh would prefer not to waste the meter for no damage. Seems to work on everyone I have tried it on so far anyway.

Does it feel like the corner MF -k (2) loop is a lot easier to hit now? The corner throw ones feel just a bit easier too. Not as much as the MF ones, but just a bit. I dunno maybe it's all in my head.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

So I found some crazy hard shit in the lab today.

Most notable was this:

(Level2 Mist or Higher)

5H>MC>3H(1)>6H>MSD-JH>stuff for massive damage. Pretty sure this is a 1F link

5K>5H>MC>5H>MF-S(2)>air ender

We can also do some really tricky Enkasu setups midscreen off of 6P>high coin>5K>IAD>stuff

[Camo]

Great for a CM but on a real situation, this is not very usefull. After HS MC you can link whatever you want except 6HS in this case.

[Killerwatt]

Hey fellow JOs! Now that +R is finally out in NA I am ready to take some time to play again, and I’m really excited about the new changes Johnny received. So in the hopes of inspiring discussion (things are a bit too dead around here), I have some questions:

1. What are Johnny’s best options for MF lvl2 P mid-screen, now that the wallbounce on hit is much shorter? In many Japanese videos I see, I’ve noticed that most players go for a coin loop and try to set up an enkasu in the corner, but when I took this to the lab, I found I’m having trouble getting this right; either I botch the IAD after the coin, or the combo ends with the last hit of Ensenga resulting in no KD.

2. What are the practical uses (if any) for ground DB now that the arc has been nerfed?

3. (Not ACR related) This question is for pad players – when you MC, which button do you use to start the MF? I’m rusty on my MCs and I’m trying to start from scratch, relearning the most optimal methods for MCing so I can develop a stronger pressure game.

That’s all for now. Thanks guys!

[Antitidus]

Hey fellow JOs! Now that +R is finally out in NA I am ready to take some time to play again, and I’m really excited about the new changes Johnny received. So in the hopes of inspiring discussion (things are a bit too dead around here), I have some questions:

1. What are Johnny’s best options for MF lvl2 P mid-screen, now that the wallbounce on hit is much shorter? In many Japanese videos I see, I’ve noticed that most players go for a coin loop and try to set up an enkasu in the corner, but when I took this to the lab, I found I’m having trouble getting this right; either I botch the IAD after the coin, or the combo ends with the last hit of Ensenga resulting in no KD.

2. What are the practical uses (if any) for ground DB now that the arc has been nerfed?

3. (Not ACR related) This question is for pad players – when you MC, which button do you use to start the MF? I’m rusty on my MCs and I’m trying to start from scratch, relearning the most optimal methods for MCing so I can develop a stronger pressure game.

That’s all for now. Thanks guys!

Well I'm also a johnny scrub so I can only answer the last one. I pretty much master the MCs so for 3. I use MC(K) just because its comfortable for me.

[evid3nts]

I'm also a Johnny scrub :3 but to answer 3. As far as MC's go I tend to tap HS once I enter the stance so I can get the fastest MC possible. It takes some getting use to but once burned into your muscle memory your pressure will look pro. The one tedious thing about this method is when you MC certain normals you will have to adjust the speed at which you enter the MS and tap 'HS' due to the recovery of his normals being different. Also try out different buttons and figure out which one is more comfortable to you. I think its best to practice them all but if were to have to choose which one I use the most it would probably be 'K'.

[Tsukahara]

Hey fellow JOs! Now that +R is finally out in NA I am ready to take some time to play again, and I’m really excited about the new changes Johnny received. So in the hopes of inspiring discussion (things are a bit too dead around here), I have some questions:

1. What are Johnny’s best options for MF lvl2 P mid-screen, now that the wallbounce on hit is much shorter? In many Japanese videos I see, I’ve noticed that most players go for a coin loop and try to set up an enkasu in the corner, but when I took this to the lab, I found I’m having trouble getting this right; either I botch the IAD after the coin, or the combo ends with the last hit of Ensenga resulting in no KD.

2. What are the practical uses (if any) for ground DB now that the arc has been nerfed?

3. (Not ACR related) This question is for pad players – when you MC, which button do you use to start the MF? I’m rusty on my MCs and I’m trying to start from scratch, relearning the most optimal methods for MCing so I can develop a stronger pressure game.

That’s all for now. Thanks guys!

Yeah it is kinda dead in here, hopefully with +r in NA we will get more people picking up Johnny and helping make this place more active.

1. For MF lvl 2 P midscreen, if you can't kill off of a the damage from your wallbounce combo, then the best option is almost always to setup corner carry/unblockable.

Tips for the IAD ender are

a) remember you are throwing the coin right when they bounce off the wall, and you start IAD'ing towards them before they hit the coin coming down. As they hit it, you should be catching them with either pkd/ksd ensenga. (depending on weights. Usually pkd for mid's and ksd for lights)

b) This will whiff if you do the Upper MF too close to the corner

c) If you are practicing off of throw, then do MF as late as possible before they tech out of the throw, otherwise some characters can tech before they hit your coin.

d) Practice against someone easy to 1 hit, I usually use Millia/Ky as they aren't to bad

2. Well, it's arc isn't anywhere near as far, but it has Inv. frames as Johnny leaves the ground. I am only starting to try to use it to punish projectiles used too close, but I've seen Jonio (or maybe it was BLEED, it's been a while) use it a lot just to FRC it and start pressure as DB FRC J.H is really tight. It can also be used to go over a lot of pokes in neutral. Just be sure to FRC it or you will die. Plus if you get a counter hit you can combo into your air combo or MF P lvl 2 and get corner carry. It's still useful and can lead to a pretty big reward (unblockable setup or 200+ damage) just don't get carried away with it.

[Chrome Homura]

Hey fellow JOs! Now that +R is finally out in NA I am ready to take some time to play again, and I’m really excited about the new changes Johnny received. So in the hopes of inspiring discussion (things are a bit too dead around here), I have some questions:

1. What are Johnny’s best options for MF lvl2 P mid-screen, now that the wallbounce on hit is much shorter? In many Japanese videos I see, I’ve noticed that most players go for a coin loop and try to set up an enkasu in the corner, but when I took this to the lab, I found I’m having trouble getting this right; either I botch the IAD after the coin, or the combo ends with the last hit of Ensenga resulting in no KD.

2. What are the practical uses (if any) for ground DB now that the arc has been nerfed?

3. (Not ACR related) This question is for pad players – when you MC, which button do you use to start the MF? I’m rusty on my MCs and I’m trying to start from scratch, relearning the most optimal methods for MCing so I can develop a stronger pressure game.

That’s all for now. Thanks guys!

1.The best option is always gonna be something that ends with a mist setup into unblockable. If you can't get the standard corner carry, consider trying the upcoin xx mist setup. Of course there's always the good old raw damage combo (no recoin) if you can't do either of those. If you're a low execution player like me, I especially recommend the latter route for situations where you know their guard bar is up and/or if the opponent is on the lower end of the defense spectrum (Millia, Baiken, Buri, Eddie, etc)

2. I could be wrong (I'll check to make sure) but I think (contrary to prior iterations) the new DB arc allows Johnny to not be terribly unsafe on block if you input the attack as late as possible, so in theory it has a use in pressure strings. Realistically though, FRCing the DB (as IIRC it gained auto jump install status in +R) allows you to airdash afterward, creating all kinds of potential for pressure and/or mixup shenanigans.

3.I exclusively use MF (K) for mist canceling, as X is the closest button to circle (HS) on the controller. I could maybe use triangle (S), but the thumb movement for X to circle is easiest. If you're on stick I'd imagine the input is more flexible, but for pad play (Assuming you're holding it normally instead of claw style) I recommend using whatever button makes for the easiest thumb movement. With the default pad layout, that's probably going to be X (K).

[Antitidus]

Anyone got any good blockstrings using MC to share? Any good MC blockstrings would be fine but I'm looking for blockstrings that would combo if it were to hit the opponent.

[Tsukahara]

Ah Chrome makes a good point. I forgot to mention upcoin > mist setups. These are done by doing a MF lvl2 P, and as the opponent wallbounces you throw a coin upwards, then as they are hitting the ground, you dash in and do bacchus sigh, and then the coin hits the opponent. This is a super easy way to setup lvl2 unblockables, but the small catch is it usually leaves your opponent with a bit more breathing room than the corner setup. You end up a little farther than a f.s away from them usually.

Anyone got any good blockstrings using MC to share? Any good MC blockstrings would be fine but I'm looking for blockstrings that would combo if it were to hit the opponent.

Well, unfortunately Johnny doesn't get much in the way of blockstrings. Any H move you do is going to give you massive pushback regardless of mist cancel. So, your "basic blockstring" comes down to one gatling combination really. The super basics are below, and all of these turn into combos if any of parts of them hit.

5k > c.s > 5h > MC

5k/2k > 2s > 5h > MC

5k/2k > 2d > MC

From the air

IAD > j.k > j.s > 5k > Pick a gatling above

However at the end of these strings, you can cancel into a coin instead of mist finer. This allows you to dash back in and force the opponent to block another string. However you should always be aware of moves your opponent has that go under coin. (IE Ky's stun dipper for example) If you get too predictable with this string then opponents can counter it.(Which you counter in turn by not dashing and punishing their baited counter, usually I just let go of mist finer to do this depending on the opponent height)

When you have your opponent looking for coins and respecting that option, then you start not using them sometimes. People will see you cancel 5h, and look for a coin, just for you to dash up throw them, or frame trap them with a short walk forward f.s, or dash up and do a low, do a risky 6k (you can be thrown out of it), or even just another string to jack their guard gauge.

Johnny's biggest strengths are not making people block, at higher MF levels your strings become tighter, but the pushback is always too much to get air tight.

[Grendy]

Hey guys, I've been playing alot of +R these last 2 weeks and I've been practicing alot of Johnny in that time. with all the matches I've been playing Im getting very consistent with my FRCs, MCing, and even gotten about 60% consistency on landing MSJH off of random hits. The next thing I want to learn is how to land Enkasu, a guy i work with plays Slayer so I would like to start with him but honestly being able to do it against anyone at this time would be amazing. I tried using the AC Enkasu thread to learn it but i couldnt make it work, later last night I was told that Enkasu has become more 'universal' instead of being changed up for most of the cast. Anyway I looked up some video's of A3Religions Johnny and found one of him landing throw jKSDE(1) in the corner against Venom. It looked simple enough so I tried it in the lab for about 30 minutes and couldnt get it done. There are a 2 things I've started noticing that i think could be my issue.

1. sometimes after the throw the timing that my first attack comes out is faster than other times, both ways can still combo just fine. Do i need my first attack to come out at the earliest time when going for Enkasu? If so is there a way to practice making sure the attack comes out at the earliest time?

2. It looks like there is a delay between jD and Ensenga, how short is this delay? When i try to delay I just dont get ensenga at all about 60% of the time.

any help on this would be great, sorry for the small rant before actually getting to the point of the post.

[4r5]

Timing of first attack is important. Timing of your first, and even your subsequent, attacks can affect the delay you need between jD and Ensenga, or even invalidate the entire setup. Timing of most setups can be assumed as every attack being done at their earliest, and saving all the delay for between jD and Ensenga.

 

practice makes perfect

here's a vid of the venom one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE4n65ojJU8 if syncing up the sounds helps you

[Tsukahara]

Welcome Grendy!

 

Getting Enkasu midscreen has gotten significantly easier in +R, but I think for the most part the corner throws have stayed the same from AC.

 

The KSDE(1) version is probably by far the easiest version in the corner.

 

 

For the easiest initial experience in my opinion, try doing it against the lighter girl characters. Jam is probably the easiest one I found to do it on when I initially started doing them.

 

For the things you noticed 1) Yes it is best that after the throw you jump and do the j.k as quickly as possible while you are rising. 2) there is a small delay. If Ensenga isn't coming out at all, then you delayed to long after the j.d.  I found Jam easy because on the lighter characters there is barely a delay at all.

 

Check out the video below to see the majority of enkasu's off corner throw and the variations per character. It's from AC, but I think almost all of them carried over.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVUWq_ogHlc

[qwerty]

Anyone got any good blockstrings using MC to share? Any good MC blockstrings would be fine but I'm looking for blockstrings that would combo if it were to hit the opponent.

 

A dangerous mindset. Don't think of Mist Canceling as extending blockstrings, think of it as returning to neutral with a slight advantage. Once you accept this, things become much clearer.