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bizarro

Dizzy vs Axl

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1. Get a knockdown

2. Apply oki ad nauseum.

3. ???

4. Profit!

This. Axl uses the same strategy

Also, baiting chain pokes with fish doesn't work because the chain is somehow invulnerable when it strikes the fish or something. I've tried ice spiking that chain several times right on the hit and it passes right through

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This. Axl uses the same strategy

Well, more than that is just that once it's an Oki situation, Dizzy locks Axl down arguably better than any other character. Fishing for a knockdown can win you the whole round very easily, because Axl just has to block and wait for an opening, which, given fish and Dizzy's grab range and all that, can be extremely hard to find before getting hit and knocked down again.

Also, baiting chain pokes with fish doesn't work because the chain is somehow invulnerable when it strikes the fish or something. I've tried ice spiking that chain several times right on the hit and it passes right through

Nah, it's just that the very end of the chain isn't vulnerable. Also notable is the fact that the second (pullback) hit of the chain will reach about a character width further than the first hit, which means that sniping the fish from the max range of the first hit is especially viable.

Also, trying to nab the chain with an ice spike is a really horrible idea in general, as the likelihood of it working is slim to nil, considering the relative speeds and hitboxes of the moves, and you'll probably just get smacked with a rensen when you miss (unless you FRC the ice spike, and then you're out 25% meter.) What you should really use the spike for is when Axl is standing on top of where it will hit and trying to throw stuff out.

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Well, more than that is just that once it's an Oki situation, Dizzy locks Axl down arguably better than any other character. Fishing for a knockdown can win you the whole round very easily, because Axl just has to block and wait for an opening, which, given fish and Dizzy's grab range and all that, can be extremely hard to find before getting hit and knocked down again.

One of my friends who plays as Axl hates it when I lock him down in the corner and I knockdown>oki>and repeat for the win, lol. If he sees a fish, he'll take it out ASAP knowing what's in store for him if I am able to mixup off of it.

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So... one thing I've always wanted to do in this matchup is to throw out 5p in the beginning of the match and score a CH. It's still EXPERIMENTAL but if timed right (it's like 2-3frames (?) after Axl does a move), 5p has a potential to beat out Axl's opening moves including f.S, 5p, and 63214S(crossup overhead).

More notes on Axl's moves:

f.S - Dizzy's 5p makes her very thin during the startup and active frame, so even if you didn't time it right, both 5p and Axl's f.S will whiff.

5p - Doing it too early or too late will result in Dizzy eating a CH.

63214S (crossup overhead) - because of this move, you might want to press forward after 5p so that you can block it even if you didn't time it right.

Recently, I had a chance to try it out but I was never able to pull it off because either Axl wouldn't do it or I kept missing the timing... oh well, my execution wasn't so good overall...

Here's the match...

But then again, even if you score a CH, 5p doesn't really combo into anything from that distance, so I wouldn't say it's that useful opener but at least it might make you feel good from seeing Dizzy slapping Axl hard in the beginning of the match. :kitty:

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Er... I'm really not seeing the point of that. For one thing, Dizzy has better openers and they actually reach that far. Secondly, it's going to either lose or not gain her anything to some very common openers. Also, good shit on that match. Not getting hit by fish is hard. :gonk:

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errr.... what's her best option as the opener? ... i got my first Axl fight yesterday, and on neutral, this fight is more retarded than Johnny fight as i can't outpoke him and block like crazy and score a knock down (this is when i agree the match up is on Dizzy Favor) whenever he try somethin absurd like Unblockable, still he can feint it :v: and it's just me or Axl Bomber/6h has massive block stun? :psyduck: ... and the spacing was horrible, i've never been able to grab him

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Yeah, Axl Bomber is level 5 attack with barely any recovery, so un block, just chill and let him do a pressure string until you have a better opportunity to break out. 6H can be hit out of if you react to it, but he can only continue to pressure at close range. If he hits you with the tip of it, you can prolly get out of it very easily.

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Yeah, Axl Bomber is level 5 attack with barely any recovery, so un block, just chill and let him do a pressure string until you have a better opportunity to break out. 6H can be hit out of if you react to it, but he can only continue to pressure at close range. If he hits you with the tip of it, you can prolly get out of it very easily.

:vbang:... no wonder, i'd ib like stupid and all i can get is 2k, i've tried 2h for few first time but keep getting ch by him :vbang:

the 6h, i think i hit him out with 6p(if i'm not seeing things:vbang:) and it's a yomi... what attack does Dizzy has to hit him out from it by reaction? as i can't think other than VV/Imperial Ray :v:

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My problem is that is is hard to IAD in on him since his anti-air is so good. I'm thinking along the lines of Johnny, here. Does this mean we have to get the knockdown via ground gattling rather than the skies?

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all my knock down on this fight cames from ch most of the time i'll just sit back in the corner and take his pressure, there's only 3 opening that i abbuse to get a knock down on this match 1st. ib-ing his Axl Bomber>2k>2hs>ice spike, the timming is tight as hell thought 2nd. counterthrow whenever he try to tick throw 3rd. Unblockables... it's 50:50 games thought other's probably can give u a better input on this match... for my experience on it is just 2 hours worth

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Best opener option against AX? Probably best to block then react accordingly but there are options if you want to counter and take the initiative instead. Things I've seen a friend use as AX to start a match include: 5P, 3P, f.S, 2H, [4]6S, 63214S, and [4]6H-cancel. Against AX's 5P you can use DI's 5K to counter against it then do IceSpike for KD. 2S>IceSpike works as well if you can anticipate the 5P. And if you are feeling extra confident, 2D KD>special cancel to fish summon for oki also works though it can be tricky to pull off. IceSpike can work for a CH to combo for KD at the start of the round if you react to the 5P attempt quick enough. woki's note about using 5P against f.S sounds good too, though you have to react as it happens. Its something that I wanna try out the next time I play this matchup. I usually end up blocking the f.S then react accordingly afterwards. If you can spot the 63214S attempt, you can either air throw it or use j.H to get a CH and follow up with a combo to KD. For 3P, you can use IceSpike or 5H>IceSpike for KD, in the case of using 5H you can get hit though if your timing or spacing is off. Otherwise you can use this chance to run away if needed. 2H is punishable in its recovery so a jump in j.H may be good here then a followup combo to KD or you can jump and AD away as an option. [4]6S, block then react but watch out for the followup attacks though. [4]6H can be punished by a jump in j.H to whatever if it isn't cancelled or if you are quick enough a dash in attack to combo could interrupt the unblockable attack instead. If it's cancelled though you might be prone to a counterattack scenario. The idea is to get you to run away or to jump in attack otherwise you get hit by the unblockable attack. The move is cancelled then AX does something else. He can use 5P if you IAD back, 2S if you decide to jump in which then leads to aerial combo, or even something else entirely. Its been a long while since I've played this matchup last. Hopefully some of this stuff works for you guys, lol.

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As far as IADing to get in on AX, its best to do that when you have fish summon after KD as oki, then you can do whatever mixup you want with the IAD j.2S stuffs because your aerial offense is covered by the fish. If you are trying to IAD in without fish cover, AX will hit you out of your IAD attempt and could possibly AA you into an air combo. Instead of IADing in with j.2S you can instead use dash/double jump tactics like dash jump>dj.2S and land on AX as fish summon is covering you. One thing that could happen is that AX throws out something but misses, then you punish accordingly. Or you end up landing right on AX with the j.2S and proceed with a mixup. IIRC AX can't really punish/counter you from that angle too well. Once you get into close range, work for the KD>oki>mixup and repeat (hopefully) for victory.

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:vbang:... no wonder, i'd ib like stupid and all i can get is 2k, i've tried 2h for few first time but keep getting ch by him :vbang:

the 6h, i think i hit him out with 6p(if i'm not seeing things:vbang:) and it's a yomi... what attack does Dizzy has to hit him out from it by reaction? as i can't think other than VV/Imperial Ray :v:

Assuming when you say 6H, you mean the one where Axl jumps at you and goes "YEEHOOOOOOO~~", I'm imagining you can trade/beat it out with a 5P, again, depending on distance.

I'm afraid Iunno much about Dizzy, so. :gonk:

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Assuming when you say 6H, you mean the one where Axl jumps at you and goes "YEEHOOOOOOO~~", I'm imagining you can trade/beat it out with a 5P, again, depending on distance.

I'm afraid Iunno much about Dizzy, so. :gonk:

You mean that overhead that Axl players love to do after a KD?

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Assuming when you say 6H, you mean the one where Axl jumps at you and goes "YEEHOOOOOOO~~", I'm imagining you can trade/beat it out with a 5P, again, depending on distance.

I'm afraid Iunno much about Dizzy, so. :gonk:

5p will beat it, if he do it close, the problem is... he's never that close lol

it's slow overhead and very reactionable, but it realy piss me off that i can't do anything to beat it out... i'll try practicing IB-ing his 2h and dash in>5p whenever he try 2h>6h next time

If it's a KD the point is moot: 5P doesn't come out in 0 frames and isn't invincible, so there's no reason to try it against a meaty of any kind.

agree

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5p will beat it, if he do it close, the problem is... he's never that close lol

it's slow overhead and very reactionable, but it realy piss me off that i can't do anything to beat it out... i'll try practicing IB-ing his 2h and dash in>5p whenever he try 2h>6h next time

agree

Dude, SB that shit, its easy. the moment you see 2HS, you can prepare yourself for the 6HS. Then just use SB trick with from going from crouch into stand + SB or just do crouch, at last moment stand + SB (works for me too), then punish w/ 5K, etc.

That gatling is dead for Axl, shouldnt even do it or get away for free w/ it.

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:vbang: ... and another question, does Rensen Startup realy that slow and u can react to it?

I think so anyway. Just time your jump as you see AX rearing back then starts to throw the chain forward. If your jump starts late you will get hit. If you plan on attacking, using a j.H can score a hit and set up for a combo opportunity provided you are only going up against a [4]6S. However if there are followups, '8' has the potential to AA you and mess up your aerial advance while '2' can be countered with a j.H for a CH because the followup is more ground-centric, but it can hit you in the air if you are not careful. You could also bait the followups if you d.jump instead of attacking right away then either attack afterwards or AD away, though if you decide to aerial evade, you might be prone to AA attacks while trying to land so be wary of that.

Also, DI's 2D has the potential to beat out [4]6S at match start provided your timing is good, but in the event it isn't you can hope to trade hits or 2D ends up getting beaten, lol.

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i didn't say it's easy either as i barely can react to it and got fucked up during the start up of my jump lol ... anyway, if it's still possible, i wouldn't hate that move as much as last week :keke:

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