BBCP and the Overdrive Mechanic.

[Tethius]

How do you all feel about the overdrive mechanic? It seems like a comeback mechanic, and what is your stance on comeback mechanics in fighting games? I found this article discussing the direction of blazblue, and the introduction of a comeback mechanic.

http://letstalkaboutgaming.blogspot.com/2013/02/irrelevant.html

Great article with very valid points. The only one really concerning for me, is the overdrive mechanic.

This is really bad news, for me personally. I can't stand comeback mechanics, and yet, its becoming the new trend in fighting games.

How can they not see how a comeback mechanic DEFEATS THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF FIGHTING GAMES?

A player who is losing SHOULD NOT be given an unfair advantage to make up for their LACK OF SKILL. This NEGATES all form of balanced, skill based competitive play. To me, this is just ridiculous and if this trend continues I will only play old school fighters like the original GGS and Third Strike.

If a player lacking in skill, gets his ass handed to him the entire match, is granted bonuses to damage, health, and priority, and then wins, THAT WIN IS NOT LEGIT. That player won not by skill, but by a blatant advantage GIVEN to them for their lack of skill.

Does anyone else feel the same? This has honestly, really irritated me. I don't even want to play CSE anymore, knowing that CP has comeback mechanics. This franchise is practically dead to me now. WHY DON'T THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO FIGHTING GAMES?

I swear, if the new GG features a comeback mechanic, I'm done with fighters. forever. Well, I take that back. Maybe American devs will start developing better ones, since the Japanese love to abandon all traces of common sense.

Thoughts? Opinions? Am I over reacting or are these concerns justified?

[darkasjinksu§]

Overeacting. Most Overdrives don't give that much of an advantage. It also seems like you're failing to realize that bursting takes away your overdrive for about 1 round, and that you have an overdrive you can use at any point as well. Personally I think overdrive is a great addition, it allows the most stylish combos possible.

[SoWL]

"Hilarious" is the only thing I can say about that article.

As for the comeback mechanics, they get way too much flak in the FGC (much, much more than in other games), to the point that everyone thinks that each and every comeback mechanic is bad. The fact is, they are not. Comeback mechanics are good and healthy for games for many different reasons, but all it takes is a vocal minority to make them look bad. If you're so better than the comeback-abusing noobs, then play around these mechanics.

Edited August 4, 2013 by SoWL

[Tethius]

True, I do not have a firm understanding of the overdrive system..but it just doesn't sound like a good addition to me. I didn't know bursting takes it away.

[Tethius]

Still, I dislike a mechanic that gives an advantage to a player which is losing more so to a player that is winning. Since the duration is based on health, the person who is losing benefits much more from it than the person who is winning if used at the same time.

Comeback mechanics have no place in fighting games in my opinion. One should not be given ANY sort of advantage, at all, for losing, even if it can be dealt with by good players. The fact that it even happens in the first place is off putting. Guess I will just have to wait and see how it actually pans out...

[Tethius]

I guess It isn't so bad, realizing that the overdive can be used by both players from the start of the match. I had originally thought that the overdrive meter would fill, so whoever takes the most damage first, would have it first.

[DragonLordZ]

http://letstalkaboutgaming.blogspot.com/2013/02/irrelevant.html

The only way you can take this TRASH article seriously if if you, yourself wrote it as only the person who wrote something like this could be deluded enough to believe it, the fucking moron is comparing 3S to BB, negating the fact that one is an Arcsys air-dasher and the other is a fucking SF game. Jesus christ even from the beginning he just goes "BB is a bad game with bad gameplay because its bad" also this moron believes that "ridiculous damage" was toned down compared to the others but in what regard? Even outside of OD people can still do high damage.

The tosspot also thinks the Personas from P4A are a defining gimmick oh whats the point, 8/10 it made me reply.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yes, because its not like you actually have to know HOW to use the system to win. Overdrive isn't like X-factor, its not an instant "I win" button(unless you're Hakumen :P) and each one is different from the other and gives different advantages. Calling it terrible without even understanding that, shows me you've either haven't read up on it, or are just horribly misinformed.

[Crocodile2D]

BlazBlue already had a comeback mechanic, you start automatically gaining meter when low on life.

In terms of the overdrive though you need to understand it completely replaces the gold burst system. Now if you burst in a gold burst situation it takes your burst and puts you into overdrive, in essence you need to choose between an overdrive or a defensive burst. The value of a defensive burst is not really static throughout the whole round though, if you get hit without a burst at 95% health you're almost definitely coming out of that exchange alive but if you get hit without a burst at 25% life you're almost definitely coming out of that exchange dead. If the overdrive didn't scale in strength as you lost health than when a player was low on life the green burst might just be too useful for the overdrive to be worth it, this way the overdrive is always remains relevant compared to the green burst and you can decide whether you want to spend your burst defensively or offensively at any point in the match. Think of it as the overdrive scaling to match the green burst in importance.

[Moy_X7]

You're overreacting

The one character that has a truly fraudulent Overdrive comeback mechanic is Hakumen as he is the only character to get utterly ridiculous damage out of most hit-confirms with low health and some stars. Some characters can really only use their Overdrive to boost the damage of their supers, which they can do at any point in the match regardless of their health. It all depends on the character.

There's that and if you wait until the last second to use your Overdrive, you run the risk of having the opponent use their own Overdrive to prevent you from Bursting. I've seen quite a few matches where the losing player doesn't get a chance to use their Overdrive or Burst at all because the winning player prevents them from using it thanks to their OD.

ODs can also be used to bait Bursts or get an early advantage in the match. It won't always be used as a clutch like you believe.

It's a mechanic that needs some polishing but it's a welcome addition (IMO). It makes things a lot more interesting and it's always fun to see a character that has a pixel of health run it back (except if their name is Hakumen).

[Star-Demon]

I look at it like this:

Gold burst was a defensive mechanic with a momentum reward in GG - you burst from neutral character state and if it hit you get rewarded.

In BlazBlue you have something similar- instead of getting meter, which would be unfair since BB meter moves are so strong and long, you end up launching opponent for an untechable to ground hit.

The gold burst was a very risky (from neutral state, usually on defense - think about that) move that rewarded you with a complete reversal of momentum as opposed to the green burst halting of momentum.

Overdrive fills the exact same role, in my opinion.

Litchi's and Hakumen's seem very strong but they still serve the exact same function as the landed gold burst.

You are still taking the risk to pop overdrive (although invincible startup should probably be removed to balance Litchi's) instead of green burst. And on offense, in CS2 and CSE the gold burst also had an offensive property if used for combos.

To me this all makes sense - I don't see it as X-factor, otherwise you'd have to look at bursts in general in the same light. (Some people do, actually - they hate the fact that their rushdown behaviors have to have some discipline and can't just run train all day once they get a flowchart. let's just be honest, the only game that has no burst with that amazing kind of rushdown is KOF13, and even then it has universal blowback and GC for meter anyways. you need SOMETHING to stop that nonsense.)

And, even so - it's a resource. It can be baited, managed, or spent at risk for reward.

No problems here. Except hakumen's is kinda stupid.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Star-Demon

[Moy_X7]

I guess It isn't so bad, realizing that the overdive can be used by both players from the start of the match. I had originally thought that the overdrive meter would fill, so whoever takes the most damage first, would have it first.

Man, you should really take some time to fully understand a mechanic before losing your shit like you did.

[Tethius]

Man, you should really take some time to fully understand a mechanic before losing your shit like you did.

Well, I was both misinformed, and lacked a firm understanding of the mechanic, but you're not wrong. Still though, if you think that's me losing my shit, you would hate to see me when I actually lose my shit. I'll admit i drew a hasty and ill informed conclusion.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Tethius

[LeonD]

LOL calm down people! =_=

The truth is GB in BB were stupid so they remove (replace) them that's alll!

[Star-Demon]

I'd also like to think that in creating a game mechanic for this kind of decision to Gold burst, that they more consistently reward all characters for it.

Let's be honest - not all characters can get good reward in terms of damage or options off (wakeup?) gold burst in CS. Arakune, for example...

[kodimt]

Where's x-factor 3 Taokaka?

[tataki]

This article is bad.

If you took each sentence separately then there are stuff that I can "agree" with but then he explains what he means and it's just bad reasoning and/or double standards. Also he doesn't have much general knowledge of the genre, which leads to wrong assumptions.

I'm not going to bother calling out all the crap in the article but I will respond to the opening post-

While comeback mechanics are horrible horrible horrible, overdrives are not as destructive to the game as you make them sound.

Would BBCP be a better game without them? Yes. Is BBCP completely ruined because of their existence? Absolutely not.

Maybe I'm not up to date but the way I see it, there are 3 tiers to overdrive bullshitness:

The first tier is "pretty much useless" tier, and some character are "solid" or even "great" while only using their gauges as bursts, like Nu or Relius. Which only shows that ODs are not THAT much of a factor in the bigger picture.

The second tier is "only extends combos" tier, in which case in order to measure the bullshit, you need to reduce the damage a full life overdrive combo does compared to the low life one. (Off of the same starter using the same amount of super meter) Only the difference is the actual "reward for getting hit" part.

And the last is "Fuck Litchi" tier, which is at least just one character out of the whole cast. :\

Edited August 4, 2013 by tataki

[STenSatsu]

An article by a 3s/ST fan who hates airdashers and modern Capcom games makes an article blindly hating all comeback mechanics while linking a video in his post of Daigo coming back thanks to the super meter.

Whole article is rofl and says nothing about Overdrive specifically. Guy needs to just go back to playing 3s instead of writing articles about stuff he has no clue about.

[Moy_X7]

I feel bad for anyone that bothered to read that entire shit article, I stopped at...

Take into account that a new revision of Guilty Gear - the game Blazblue was created to entirely to profit off of! - has already been rereleased on PSN and XBox Live and is recieving an update, and Blazblue: Chrono Phantasma is already irrelevant as a fighting game despite not even having come out on consoles yet.

I lol'd pretty hard, then moved on.

[Sechs]

The article's content de-evolves pretty quickly and the lack of ALL CAP RAGE was surprising.

Actually finding myself agreeing with Star Demon.

As far as Hakumen's OD, all I can say at least Kishin has the least active time of all overdrives; ASW balancing I guess.

Will Haku's overdrive lead to silliness in an online environment?

Sure, because netplay is like kryptonite to a player's abilities react: to throws, overheads, and a repertoire of moves which are mostly negative on block.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Sechs

[Moy_X7]

As far as Hakumen's OD, all I can say at least Kishin has the least active time of all overdrives; ASW balancing I guess.

Will Haku's overdrive lead to silliness in an online environment?

Sure, because netplay is like kryptonite to a player's abilities react: to throws, overheads, and a repertoire of moves which are mostly negative on block.

*sigh*

Hakumen's OD already leads to silliness offline.

What is it with you people and your fixation with netplay? I highly doubt that you're going to be able to react to hop/TK Tsubaki any better offline.

[Wander]

Maybe when people play in offline environment they end up sitting closer to the screen and thus reaction times are also better? I sit a little more than 9 feet away from my screen and i think my reaction times would improve if i sat closer

[kodimt]

[TD]

Can someone take this pitiful man off the pipe please, he doesn't know what he's talking about

[Sechs]

*retort sigh*

I only primarily brought up online, because most player's tales of salt stem from frustrating their misadventures in netplay.

*keeps rereading "you people" & resisting urge to get perma-banned*

As a newly demoted newbie who apparently just discovered BB 30 minutes ago, I realize hop/TK Tsubaki is really good.

*"you people"*

EDIT: Apologies to the thread creator, probably wanting intelligent discussion, instead got the exact opposite once I started posting.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Sechs