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Guilty Gear Xrd Story Thread

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On 2017-6-24 at 6:20 PM, Blade said:

Baiken's words to Asuka when confronting him (she asks "Why did you kill them? Why did you burn them?"):

http://gear-project.tumblr.com/post/25423681342/can-your-explain-why-did-baiken-decide-to-give-up

Baiken's Childhood Recollection (1:33 mark of GGX Anime Video):

http://gear-project.tumblr.com/post/97229802634/im-posting-this-here-because-of-reasons-leave

Please note that this cutscene has parts that were retconned from actual GGX dialogue, but so far it's the only "evidence" depicting Baiken's Childhood according to her bio information.

When Baiken's memory actually occurred during events is vague and unclear, but Daisuke Ishiwatari deliberately placed this information alongside the events that Destroyed Japan, so the two are connected, primarily because rampaging Gears were involved, but also their connection to "That Man".

Another piece of "vague evidence" is the Conclave who were supposedly the Overseers of the Japanese Colonies.  The Conclave Members Chronus and Axus supposedly have been "alive" since 1999.  Libraria was the youngest member supposedly, but their recollections on Magic and lifespans date back at least 100 years according to Axus and Chronus.  Chronus was an old colleague of Asuka's and even managed to live as long as he has!

That is not direct evidence that Japanese live long lives, but it IS evidence that the Conclave have lived an exceptionally long time as Humans.  How they did so is unknown.

Baiken's memory may be vague, but it's the only vivid  evidence we have that suggests she recalled the destruction of her people as a survivor.

If future GGXrd Episodes reveal more about Baiken's past, we'll be able to paint a clearer picture of events.

So far, however, because of the DNA transfer from Justice to Japan, it's implied most Japanese are Gears, and Gears are CONFIRMED to have long lifespans.  The Japanese who turned in to Antimatter Gears are further proof of this, as is testimony surrounding them.

Gears like Justice and Sol have lived 100 to 200 years, Dizzy's GGXPlus ending implies she'll live 200 years or more as well.  Izuna, as a Youkai, is implied to have lived since Japan's antiquity if the "Killing Stone Legend" is connected to Izuna as implied by his GG2 story.

Tyr from GGXtra is also a mystery, as he remained a child in appearance from 2162 to 2170 or so to get sealed away.  He hasn't aged at all when Ky meets him again in 2181.

The GGX promotional video and Baiken’s story mode ending go back to the beginning of the franchise, and as you said, a lot has been retcon.

Baiken’s GGXX story mode bio says that Baiken lost her parents during the war, and her GGXXAC+ bio mentions that the death of her parents during the crusades left her traumatized. And again, Baiken’s GGXrd Rev 2 bio says she lost her family during the crusades. It also mentions her homeland is Colony. That pretty much contradicts Baiken’s scene in the promotional video and her GGXX ending if those sources are really referring to Justice initial attack on Japan as you suggest.

Now Japanese are Gears? That would contradict a lot of stuff in official material. I though they become Gears after the transformation, that’s what was stated in the game, it was never mention they were Gear before. The condition that Japanese have has been referred as disease until now.

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21 hours ago, Aegis High said:

The GGX promotional video and Baiken’s story mode ending go back to the beginning of the franchise, and as you said, a lot has been retcon.

Baiken’s GGXX story mode bio says that Baiken lost her parents during the war, and her GGXXAC+ bio mentions that the death of her parents during the crusades left her traumatized. And again, Baiken’s GGXrd Rev 2 bio says she lost her family during the crusades. It also mentions her homeland is Colony. That pretty much contradicts Baiken’s scene in the promotional video and her GGXX ending if those sources are really referring to Justice initial attack on Japan as you suggest.

Now Japanese are Gears? That would contradict a lot of stuff in official material. I though they become Gears after the transformation, that’s what was stated in the game, it was never mention they were Gear before. The condition that Japanese have has been referred as disease until now.

Her "current" Homeland technically is the Dimensional Colony "Miyabi" (Miyabi is the largest of the Dimensional Colonies created for the refugees, specifically the Japanese during the Crusades.)  According to the information I've been able to gather, there are several Japanese Colonies, with Miyabi as the largest, located in the Himalayan region.  It's never stated how many other colonies there are or where the others are located.  In addition, due to the Japanese "International Treasure" status (which is actual a Racial Quarantine after Japan was destroyed and the Gear mutations were discovered), other people have envied the preferential treatment the Japanese got, though these don't know the truth.

The residents of South Africa are Crusades refugees who never received Government Assistance of any kind, so Chipp Zanuff set up his "Eastern Chipp Kingdom" there to get the United Nations to recognize them and send aid.

Only certain medical doctors and staff as well as the Conclave knew about the Japanese having Gear-like symptoms, and they kept it under wraps.  Doctor Faust was the first to recently stumble on the coverup when he treated May.  It's not a retcon or a contradiction, just a well-kept secret.

Baiken and other Japanese survivors originally lived in Japan, but after Gamma Ray and the "Black Sunrise" events, they migrated to the Colonies sealed by the Zessen to protect them.

Justice didn't start her rebellion until other nations began to retaliate against her Gear Plant in America.  From there, she waged her war primarily in Russia and Italy, increasing her army with every Gear Plant she ransacked.

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4 hours ago, Blade said:

Her "current" Homeland technically is the Dimensional Colony "Miyabi" (Miyabi is the largest of the Dimensional Colonies created for the refugees, specifically the Japanese during the Crusades.)  According to the information I've been able to gather, there are several Japanese Colonies, with Miyabi as the largest, located in the Himalayan region.  It's never stated how many other colonies there are or where the others are located.  In addition, due to the Japanese "International Treasure" status (which is actual a Racial Quarantine after Japan was destroyed and the Gear mutations were discovered), other people have envied the preferential treatment the Japanese got, though these don't know the truth.

The residents of South Africa are Crusades refugees who never received Government Assistance of any kind, so Chipp Zanuff set up his "Eastern Chipp Kingdom" there to get the United Nations to recognize them and send aid.

Only certain medical doctors and staff as well as the Conclave knew about the Japanese having Gear-like symptoms, and they kept it under wraps.  Doctor Faust was the first to recently stumble on the coverup when he treated May.  It's not a retcon or a contradiction, just a well-kept secret.

Baiken and other Japanese survivors originally lived in Japan, but after Gamma Ray and the "Black Sunrise" events, they migrated to the Colonies sealed by the Zessen to protect them.

Justice didn't start her rebellion until other nations began to retaliate against her Gear Plant in America.  From there, she waged her war primarily in Russia and Italy, increasing her army with every Gear Plant she ransacked.

That’s odd, because all other characters have their places of birth listed in their bios. Like Ky’s is France not Illyria, the place he’s currently living in. Why is different for Baiken?

Yes, I know the disease was being kept in secret, it was stated very clear in the games. My point is, Japanese are not Gears, they become Gears after the disease kicks in, not before. Saying that Japanese have been Gears from the beginning would contradict a lot of stuff.

You said “Baiken's recollection says she watched her family "burn" before her eyes, this jives with Gamma Ray being fired in 2074, and Baiken was a child at the time”. Then why all of Baiken bios say her family was killed during the crusades?

Still no concrete evidence that Baiken is 100+

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I think you're getting confused.

http://gear-project.tumblr.com/post/37901512592/baiken-bio-and-trivia

Baiken's GGX Bio states her Birthplace was "Pre-Destruction Japan".

It's in the Manual. https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1sf3grgzs12z99/Guilty_Gear_Manual_Archive.rar?dl=0

GG World Bio says "Colony" while her Arena Bio says "Japan".  That's because she moved to the Colony AFTER Japan was destroyed.  That should be obvious.

Her PWAB Report states she lost her parents DURING the Crusades.  2074 is still considered the "beginning of the Crusades" according to how GG categorizes its history.

Most older GG Bios don't say where characters are living, only where they were born.  As of GG2 they started adding info where characters currently live and groups they're affiliated.  Ky Kiske is French, but he's considered Illyrian because he's the High King of Illyria.  Political lines were redrawn is all.

As for the Japanese, no, they're "not quite" Gears, but they ARE sick because of the DNA taken from Justice.  So far the biggest indicators are May and Mizuha with their Gear-like powers.

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22 hours ago, Blade said:

I think you're getting confused.

http://gear-project.tumblr.com/post/37901512592/baiken-bio-and-trivia

Baiken's GGX Bio states her Birthplace was "Pre-Destruction Japan".

It's in the Manual. https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1sf3grgzs12z99/Guilty_Gear_Manual_Archive.rar?dl=0

GG World Bio says "Colony" while her Arena Bio says "Japan".  That's because she moved to the Colony AFTER Japan was destroyed.  That should be obvious.

Her PWAB Report states she lost her parents DURING the Crusades.  2074 is still considered the "beginning of the Crusades" according to how GG categorizes its history.

Most older GG Bios don't say where characters are living, only where they were born.  As of GG2 they started adding info where characters currently live and groups they're affiliated.  Ky Kiske is French, but he's considered Illyrian because he's the High King of Illyria.  Political lines were redrawn is all.

As for the Japanese, no, they're "not quite" Gears, but they ARE sick because of the DNA taken from Justice.  So far the biggest indicators are May and Mizuha with their Gear-like powers.

In REV2 GG World, all GGX characters bios retain their same origins listed in the GGX manual, except Baiken. Why it wasn’t left as “Japan before the destruction”, why was it changed to Colony?

Baiken’s Arena bio says Japan, but so does May’s. So May is also a hundred? I thought her story was she was found as a little girl in a battle field by Johnny. What is it then?

Sorry but just by definition “During” it’s not the same as “Beginning”. The GG timeline lists the destruction of Japan, the beginning of the Crusades and the formation of the first Sacred Order or Holly Knights happening in 2074. Those are three separated events. 

"As for the Japanese, no, they're "not quite" Gears, but they ARE sick because of the DNA taken from Justice.  So far the biggest indicators are May and Mizuha with their Gear-like powers."

That's what I’m saying. They're not Gears. They have a mutation in their DNA, they got sick when there is an information Flare around, then they become Gears.

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Well, unless Faust comes up with a cure, I don't know what else to tell you.

May's origin is a mystery yet too, as she just appeared outside the Colony in 2174 where Johnny found her.  I can only assume her parents were trying to escape the Colony and little May got left behind, but that's a guess on my part.  I don't know what really happened, nor does it account for May's ridiculous physical strength enough to spook Justice of all Gears.

Baiken being able to slash a house in half with one arm is curious enough, but the fact the Zessen OutRage reacts to Japanese blood (OutRage are Anti-Gear weapons, they shouldn't respond like that to humans unless the user is exceptional at using Magic).

I-No's comment about Baiken's age isn't easy to ignore after all this.

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On 29/6/2017 at 7:18 AM, Blade said:

Well, unless Faust comes up with a cure, I don't know what else to tell you.

May's origin is a mystery yet too, as she just appeared outside the Colony in 2174 where Johnny found her.  I can only assume her parents were trying to escape the Colony and little May got left behind, but that's a guess on my part.  I don't know what really happened, nor does it account for May's ridiculous physical strength enough to spook Justice of all Gears.

Baiken being able to slash a house in half with one arm is curious enough, but the fact the Zessen OutRage reacts to Japanese blood (OutRage are Anti-Gear weapons, they shouldn't respond like that to humans unless the user is exceptional at using Magic).

I-No's comment about Baiken's age isn't easy to ignore after all this.

If May was found by Johnny as a little girl, like many sources say, then obviously she couldn’t have been born in Japan before the Crusades. So, why her Arena bio says Japan? Could it be refereeing to something else, could it be the same for Baiken since her GG World Bio and Arena bio don’t match?

I don’t think over the top in game moves should be used as evidence for this, I mean, we have Potemkin burying his opponents in the ground and sending them to the other side of the planet.

Where’s this I-No comment on Baiken’s age exactly from? I scanned through Baiken/I-No AC+ story mode and couldn’t find it.

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Like I've been saying, Nationality has nothing to do with what people are affiliated with or where they currently live.  The Arena is just indicating May is Japanese (Origin: Japan means Japanese), she still "lives" with the Jellyfish.

Raven's FROM the "Holy Roman Empire", and neither that empire nor Germany that came after it exist anymore, Germany was annexed in to Illyria after the Crusades.  But that doesn't change the fact Raven is German!  Most of GGXrd's story about May further PROVED May was Japanese, so why are you debating this point?

I-No's comment about Baiken's Age was in GGXX, Baiken's story. http://guiltygear.ru/files/faqs/Guilty_Gear_XX_The_Midnight_Carnival.txt

I-No wasn't the only person to make that age comment either, Robo-Ky does too when he hits on her in ACPlusR, saying "she's passed the limit" (Robo sensors don't lie).

Also, I-No's Bad Ending in ACPlusR shows that Baiken "awakens" even after I-No struck her down!   Ky was shot in Xrd in a similar manner, guess what happened?

During that scene Baiken even MENTIONS the Japanese having special powers (according to what she heard from Crow Kuruwaba of all people).

Need more proof?  The P.W.A.B. were "recovering the Japanese AND Gears", now why do you suppose they were given a task that lumps the Japanese in with Gears UNLESS there was some connection?

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Sorry it took me too long to reply.

On 3/7/2017 at 0:07 PM, Blade said:

Like I've been saying, Nationality has nothing to do with what people are affiliated with or where they currently live.  The Arena is just indicating May is Japanese (Origin: Japan means Japanese), she still "lives" with the Jellyfish.

Then You’re saying that May’s Arena bio doesn’t mean that she was born in Japan, (we agree that May did not born in Japan before destruction, right?) just that she is of japanese descendant. Then that would be the same for Baiken. If so, the Arena Bio is not proof that Baiken is 100 year old.

On 3/7/2017 at 0:07 PM, Blade said:

Raven's FROM the "Holy Roman Empire", and neither that empire nor Germany that came after it exist anymore, Germany was annexed in to Illyria after the Crusades.  But that doesn't change the fact Raven is German!  Most of GGXrd's story about May further PROVED May was Japanese, so why are you debating this point?

No, I’m not debating if May is Japanese or not, of course she is Japanese, the games and books say so. But that doesn’t mean she was born in Japan a hundred year ago, just that she is of Japanese descendant.

On 3/7/2017 at 0:07 PM, Blade said:

I-No's comment about Baiken's Age was in GGXX, Baiken's story. http://guiltygear.ru/files/faqs/Guilty_Gear_XX_The_Midnight_Carnival.txt

I-No wasn't the only person to make that age comment either, Robo-Ky does too when he hits on her in ACPlusR, saying "she's passed the limit" (Robo sensors don't lie).

Ok that alone is not proof enough, it just implies that she is an adult woman (that’s why Anji call here Ane-san). In Robok-Kys case he’s looking for a wife and although Baiken is outside his preferences in age, she’s still a very attractive woman.

On 3/7/2017 at 0:07 PM, Blade said:

Also, I-No's Bad Ending in ACPlusR shows that Baiken "awakens" even after I-No struck her down!   Ky was shot in Xrd in a similar manner, guess what happened?

During that scene Baiken even MENTIONS the Japanese having special powers (according to what she heard from Crow Kuruwaba of all people).

Need more proof?  The P.W.A.B. were "recovering the Japanese AND Gears", now why do you suppose they were given a task that lumps the Japanese in with Gears UNLESS there was some connection?

Once again, you’re talking about power, we know that Japanese people have a hidden power, that’s a fact. But where it says that power grant them longevity?

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There's certainly evidence May was born in the Colonies rather than Japan itself. But let's set "Amazing Geisha" May aside (who is older than she looks as she confessed to Chipp) for a moment.

The very first time we even knew Japan was destroyed was in Baiken's backstory in Guilty Gear X in 2000.

Anji's GGX Story supports this too, but doesn't give precise details of how her home and family were destroyed like Baiken's does.

Guilty Gear Xtra Manga was released in 2003, 3 years after GGX and a year after GGXX came out.

GGXtra was the first story to suggest that the Japanese had been sealed away for 100 years ("100 years without outside contact, blocked off").  Xtra is supposed to have happened during GGX events, not XX events, so assuming Xtra happened in late 2180 to early 2181, when Anji left the Colony, you would assume the Colonies were sealed from 2081 to 2181 if that 100 year seal is true.  Anji never touched the Zessen before that time, so the kekkai barrier was always up and stopping intruders from entering or Japanese from leaving (Ky says without his medallion it is impossible to enter the barrier otherwise).  Ky's recollection states he met Tyr roughly 15 years ago to the day they met again (2162 if Ky joined the Order in 2167).

Xtra also goes on to add that it was considered a "Crime" for any Japanese to escape the Colonies (Axl Low states this to Mizuha)!

Accent Core retroactively states Baiken escaped the Colony in 2180 to kill Justice, but how could that happen unless the Barrier was weakened?  Unless Anji took the Zessen in 2180 and left at a similar time as Baiken?  Before this, Baiken is never mentioned during the Crusades as having set foot outside the Colony.

Now, you can either agree or disagree with the Canonicity of the manga, but characters like Bernard and such existed in the Drama CDs and Novels which were written/scripted by the same author.

GGXtra, while fairly specific about certain things, is vague about others, the elder monk apologizes on behalf of Baiken, explaining her hatred of Gears to Ky during his investigation, stating her parents prevented the Gears from attacking by sacrificing their lives to protect her, however...

Baiken's recollection was of Gears and a "man controlling them" whom she claims is the Gearmaker, "That Man".

The Gears could not enter the Colony Barrier unless they were INSIDE the Barrier already, assuming that: 

1. Baiken was attacked in the Colonies, rather than outside them.  This makes more sense when you realize the Colonies were invisible inside the Himalayas and Justice fought her war mostly in central Russia and America at the time.  Her war started in America.

2. Assuming that the story implied by "Ogre Valley" is true or somehow related, Gears were sealed or "dumped" inside the Colony alongside the Japanese.  Geena called it a "Landfill" and she was a PWAB agent.  Tyr even says he was "thrown out".

Now, either Baiken was attacked by Gears INSIDE the Colony or OUTSIDE it.  We can't determine which for sure yet.

Baiken's story is sketchy as it is, but her recollection of a "human controlling Gears" contradicts what happened during the Crusades proper, as Justice was a Gear controlling other GEARS.

Anji's recollection of Crow Kuruwaba is equally sketchy, so there's a story here that isn't being said yet.

If Baiken was attacked outside the Colony that would have been 100 years ago, but if it WAS inside the Colony, then something else happened...

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On 10/7/2017 at 2:51 AM, Blade said:

There's certainly evidence May was born in the Colonies rather than Japan itself. But let's set "Amazing Geisha" May aside (who is older than she looks as she confessed to Chipp) for a moment.

Yes, May is older than she looks, but that could just mean she has grown up since GGX, it’s just that she’s short and looks young, you know, like Japanese women tend to look. It’s a recurrent cliché in anime/manga, when the protagonist’s mother looks like his/her sister.

On 10/7/2017 at 2:51 AM, Blade said:

GGXtra was the first story to suggest that the Japanese had been sealed away for 100 years ("100 years without outside contact, blocked off").  Xtra is supposed to have happened during GGX events, not XX events, so assuming Xtra happened in late 2180 to early 2181, when Anji left the Colony, you would assume the Colonies were sealed from 2081 to 2181 if that 100 year seal is true.  Anji never touched the Zessen before that time, so the kekkai barrier was always up and stopping intruders from entering or Japanese from leaving (Ky says without his medallion it is impossible to enter the barrier otherwise).  Ky's recollection states he met Tyr roughly 15 years ago to the day they met again (2162 if Ky joined the Order in 2167).

Xtra also goes on to add that it was considered a "Crime" for any Japanese to escape the Colonies (Axl Low states this to Mizuha)!

Accent Core retroactively states Baiken escaped the Colony in 2180 to kill Justice, but how could that happen unless the Barrier was weakened?  Unless Anji took the Zessen in 2180 and left at a similar time as Baiken?  Before this, Baiken is never mentioned during the Crusades as having set foot outside the Colony.

Now, you can either agree or disagree with the Canonicity of the manga, but characters like Bernard and such existed in the Drama CDs and Novels which were written/scripted by the same author.

GGXtra, while fairly specific about certain things, is vague about others, the elder monk apologizes on behalf of Baiken, explaining her hatred of Gears to Ky during his investigation, stating her parents prevented the Gears from attacking by sacrificing their lives to protect her.

So, the manga also confirms what all Baiken’s bios say, that her parents were killed during The Crusades and in that incident she lost her eye and arm, (the manga even show a young injured Baiken) Then it’s clear that incident didn’t happen when Japan was destroyed. If those sources say her parents were killed during the crusade, then the Gear attack happened on the Colony.

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It's not clear yet, just "vague", the old man stated he lived most of his life in the Colony,and vaguely mentions parents who were Japan survivors, but his story and Baiken's "story outside GGXtra" do not entirely cooincide.

GGXrd has yet to acknowledge GGXtra in name, not even mentioning its characters, even if Bernard was mentioned from the LtA Novel.

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On 13/7/2017 at 9:09 AM, Blade said:

It's not clear yet, just "vague", the old man stated he lived most of his life in the Colony,and vaguely mentions parents who were Japan survivors, but his story and Baiken's "story outside GGXtra" do not entirely cooincide.

GGXrd has yet to acknowledge GGXtra in name, not even mentioning its characters, even if Bernard was mentioned from the LtA Novel.

So, Is the GGXtra manga a credible source, or not? Is it cannon od not? Because you have been using it a lot as a reference.

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I use it as a reference for Ky's childhood, but so far it falls under Kaihou Norimitsu's work.

LtA Novel

GGXtra

BaHG Novel 

Were written by him.

GGXrd acknowledges the novels, but doesn't cite the Manga, and only barely mentioned Drama CDs Night of Knives and Side Red/Black.

Golden Disc Drama CD cites Bernard from the Novel/Manga so he's canon.

Characters are canon, like Tyr and Mizuha, but the order of events may not be canon yet.

I'd have to wait and see.

Ky's encounter with Dizzy in GGX was altered slightly in Rev2 too, so we'll see how things go.

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13 hours ago, Blade said:

I use it as a reference for Ky's childhood, but so far it falls under Kaihou Norimitsu's work.

LtA Novel

GGXtra

BaHG Novel 

Were written by him.

GGXrd acknowledges the novels, but doesn't cite the Manga, and only barely mentioned Drama CDs Night of Knives and Side Red/Black.

Golden Disc Drama CD cites Bernard from the Novel/Manga so he's canon.

Characters are canon, like Tyr and Mizuha, but the order of events may not be canon yet.

I'd have to wait and see.

Ky's encounter with Dizzy in GGX was altered slightly in Rev2 too, so we'll see how things go.

You didn’t answer my question, Is it cannon or not? You can’t use the manga to explain some stuff but dismiss others.

If the manga says Baiken lost her parents when she was young during the Crusades, losing her eye and arm in the process, and that matches other official sources, does that confirm the incident or not?

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I just told you what IS canon.  The characters.  But maybe not the story itself.  That's just how GG Gaiden was explained.

Unless we get more information on Baiken's Xrd story, it's extremely hard to confirm what sources they will use.

There's two stories being told here: Baiken's Story and Japan's.

Whether or not they coincide I can't be certain.

Xtra talks about Japan in the Crusades and external info supports that in broad strokes BUT it doesn't go in to strong details on Baiken's Story as much as the GG Anime video did.

I'm not dismissing evidence, I'm pointing out LACK of evidence.

Baiken herself is 100% Canon, but various sources that tell her backstory may not meet 100% canon.

But that doesn't mean Xtra is noncanon, it just means parts of it aren't.

I'd say Accent Core carries more canonical weight than Xtra, but only because nothing "else" really supports Xtra.

If you can't accept that answer, then you don't have to think of GGXtra AS canon until there's more supporting evidence to say it is.

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If you’re not sure if the story of Xtra is canon or not, then you can’t use it as a reference. All that stuff about the weak barrier, and the Japanese completely isolated for a 100 years should be dismiss then, because you don’t know which parts are canon or not.

There are 4 sources that say Baiken’s parents were killed during the crusades, Baiken’s GGXX story mode bio, GGXtra, Baiken’s GGXXAC+ story mode bio and GGXrd REV2 GGWorld (this one confirms she was gravely injured in that incident). Even if you remove GGXtra as a source, because according to you it may or may not be canon, we still have three official sources that state the same. Then, does that confirm the incident did not happen when Japan was destroyed?

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