[P4AU] News & Gameplay Discussion

[SteelCoil]

Liz's j.B is not considered disjointed; it's a projectile.

Disjointed moves are physical moves that have disjointed hitboxes, which are significantly sized hitboxes that don't have a hurtbox overlapping with them. Examples of this are Yu's 5B, which has no hurtbox on the sword, or Labrys's rocket punch, which despite its range, is physical and gets caught by Kanji's DP.

It's very confusing to state that a disjointed move is some other thing when it's oh so useful for describing Yu 5B as a potent poke.

Edited August 16, 2013 by SteelCoil

[Omex]

Liz's j.B is not considered disjointed; it's a projectile.

Disjointed moves are physical moves that have disjointed hitboxes, which are significantly sized hitboxes that don't have a hurtbox overlapping with them. Examples of this are Yu's 5B, which has no hurtbox on the sword, or Labrys's rocket punch, which despite its range, is physical and gets caught by Kanji's DP.

It's very confusing to state that a disjointed move is some other thing when it's oh so useful for describing Yu 5B as a potent poke.

'hitbox/hurtbox not overlapping'

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/p4arena/hitbox/Narukami/bc203_06.png

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/p4arena/hitbox/Mitsuru/mi200_03.png

the game is super consistent with 'anything your character does that is not a projectile/pseudo projectile/persona attack' is not disjointed, and it doesn't even describe the moves you listed, sorry. it's different in other games but every game has different rules. :V

[swordsman09]

Any Yukari footage yet? Prove me wrong that she fits in the game.

Edited August 17, 2013 by swordsman09

[Adelheid]

'hitbox/hurtbox not overlapping'

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/p4arena/hitbox/Narukami/bc203_06.png

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/p4arena/hitbox/Mitsuru/mi200_03.png

the game is super consistent with 'anything your character does that is not a projectile/pseudo projectile/persona attack' is not disjointed, and it doesn't even describe the moves you listed, sorry. it's different in other games but every game has different rules. :V

Do you really just not see the big area that's only red? That's where it's disjoint. That is what is meant by "disjoint," "Having an area you can strike with where you cannot be struck." If you strike the enemy with that, when your hurtbox isn't near their hitbox, you don't get hit. BUT AGAINST KANJI'S DP, YOU DO. Because it specifically catches moves even if they're disjoint, as long as they are not in the projectile class or considered to be fully invulnerable/autoguarding.

If you are going to go lambasting others for spreading misinformation please at least spend two minutes to maybe possibly test things out, okej?

[Omex]

Do you really just not see the big area that's only red? That's where it's disjoint. That is what is meant by "disjoint," "Having an area you can strike with where you cannot be struck." If you strike the enemy with that, when your hurtbox isn't near their hitbox, you don't get hit. BUT AGAINST KANJI'S DP, YOU DO. Because it specifically catches moves even if they're disjoint, as long as they are not in the projectile class or considered to be fully invulnerable/autoguarding.

If you are going to go lambasting others for spreading misinformation please at least spend two minutes to maybe possibly test things out, okej?

it also catches moves that are autogard and fully invuln. the attack still happens-try doing cross slash, aki 236236a, kanji 236236a, etc which are all invuln on hit, then omc. the attack will still happen, and hit you-, hit or block depending on if you bother to. i admit, i was misusing disjointed by relying on the fact it means 'disconnected'? for example, take narukami 5C-the literal rule with kanji dp is 'unless the hitbox is stored in a seperate file, it will trigger the retaliation attack.' narukami's 5C is stored in a seperate file (with the persona hitbox attack/hurtbox) so it does not affect Narukami. This is true for all persona attacks especially, though the persona will get hit by the NON retaliation attack if their hurtbox intersects with the natural active frames.

there's a few different definitions of 'disjointed' in the fighting game communities-arcsys being different than say, smash, iirc. but i was making the mistake of figuring it was okay to use here as a loose term, but I hadn't thought that out too well. I used it first by the smash definition, which, like I said, is 'hurtbox and hitbox do not overlap at all', though i might be wrong, and the arcsys definition is just 'huge ass block of red'.

i apologize for that, and to be more accurate, i mean 'DISCONNECTED' attacks. It's a very consistent rule, I assure you, I just used the wrong term. I'm definitely not wrong on the mechanics, just the term. :x

edit: quick note-we don't have any normals that are 'projectile type' and stored with the character file under this rule as of right now (plenty of those in blazblue) but considering Hakumen's astral catches those attacks in a very similar 'capture/retaliation style' just wtihout guardpoint, I'm pretty sure Kanji's DP would trigger the retaliation attack against them as well.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Omex

[Adelheid]

it also catches moves that are autogard and fully invuln. the attack still happens-try doing cross slash, aki 236236a, kanji 236236a, etc which are all invuln on hit, then omc. the attack will still happen, and hit you-, hit or block depending on if you bother to.

Well, yeah, but it's not like a counter in that it doesn't lock you in to being hit if you strike it no matter what. You can still invuln through the hit it generates, is what I mean.

[LegendaryRath]

Sooooo, uhh... I heard Aristobule mention that he actually recorded some Yukari footage, but the video was too bad to upload. He's going to try again tomorrow.

Edited August 17, 2013 by LegendaryRath

[Dusk Thanatos]

Something hit me a while back. I recall someone once telling me that the combat in P4A lacked an aspect that most 2D fighters utilize. I believe mix-up was the one they were convinced was missing. Would any of you agree with this or was there something else missing from the original P4A's combat?

Whenever I heard good players complain about P4A, it was one of three things:

-Characters are too linear. There's not a lot of room for choice in playstyle.

-Too much of top tier was just setplay with no good counter, so once you got hit, you could probably put down the controller and it wouldn't be too different.

-Low tier wasn't viable enough. Liz and Kanji were just sad, and the people above them were still not viable enough in comparison to just playing top tier. People found more tech later, which made this slightly less of a problem, but the problem was never really solved.

[Wild Candy]

I feel like the characters were slightly unbalanced in P4A because it was the first game, and didn't have any experience to learn from with balancing... It might be better balanced this time around. From what I understand, Elizabeth's received a lot of love with buffs this time around. (She now has SEVEN FREAKING CARDS!)

[Dusk Thanatos]

We got the second or third patch of P4A on console. It wasn't a first go-round.

I don't know if the balance is going to be better this time without a miracle, since they're doubling the cast and adding a very swingy mechanic.

[Zeik56]

We got the second or third patch of P4A on console. It wasn't a first go-round.

I don't know if the balance is going to be better this time without a miracle, since they're doubling the cast and adding a very swingy mechanic.

The shadow forms aren't quite the same as doubling the cast. Sure, they have their own unique gimmicks that need balancing, but since they share so much with their original it should be significantly easier to balance than a full character.

The balance is never going to be perfect anyway. The best we can hope for is to have the outliers move inward so there isn't such a large gap.

[Luminos564]

I feel like the characters were slightly unbalanced in P4A because it was the first game, and didn't have any experience to learn from with balancing... It might be better balanced this time around. From what I understand, Elizabeth's received a lot of love with buffs this time around. (She now has SEVEN FREAKING CARDS!)

She has 6 cards actually, the same as Shadow Labrys. And as people pointed it out, this both a good and a bad thing. It is good since it means Lizzie gets more mileage out of Thanny. But the bad comes in when he does inevitably get broken. See, it takes time to recharge those 6 lost cards, much longer than it would take Akihiko (who only has 2 cards) to recover from a Persona Break. Difference here is that Akihiko can hold his own without Caesar while Lizzie is nearly helpless without Thanny which I am hoping her new Debilitate special (it was what people called "Randomizer" earlier) helps. It lasts a long while and functions as a heavy-duty parry (input: [4]6+A/B) and it inflict Negative Penalty to boot. Current video footage shows just how powerful she might have been if done properly.

But you might have a point. A game like P4A has never been done before by ASW and they do tend to have a history of poor balance choices (see Calamity Trigger). For what it's worth though, they do tend to get better at it as more installments are added. So hopefully Arena 2 does a better job in the end.

[Diveman]

I'm dying for some Yukari footage lol

[iminthenet2]

Are there any changes on Chie?

[tofurr]

Are there any changes on Chie?

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?16906-P4A2-Chie-loketest-changes-discussion

[Dusk Thanatos]

The shadow forms aren't quite the same as doubling the cast. Sure, they have their own unique gimmicks that need balancing, but since they share so much with their original it should be significantly easier to balance than a full character.

The balance is never going to be perfect anyway. The best we can hope for is to have the outliers move inward so there isn't such a large gap.

The difference between a normal and shadow version of chara is starting to sound like the difference between F-Tohno and C-Nanaya in Melty.

That is, they're two characters that look kind of alike, and even have some moves that look alike, but are completely fucking different.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Dusk Thanatos

[LegendaryRath]

Are they the similar? Yes

Are they different? Yes

[swordsman09]

So did we come to a conclusion and decide that this game will be called Persona 4 Climax or Persona 4 Arena-Climax or anything like that?

[BlackJustin13]

2B and 5B chained into each other, but you couldn't do both in one string. Now the 2B > 5B chain is gone.

And yeah, Shabrys' changes might be generally looked at as nerfs, but there's interesting stuff there. I'm hype for new moves and EX Titanomachia.

The only thing I could really consider a nerf so far is the DP change. You could actually get a sweet Titanomachia combo from that wall bounce. While the fact that she has 6 cards is nice,given the nature of asterius,it also means more time without him when he's broken >_<. But I definitely am interested in her new moves,and about time she got Chain Knuckle! Hope she gets the followups too.

[Kurushii]

So did we come to a conclusion and decide that this game will be called Persona 4 Climax or Persona 4 Arena-Climax or anything like that?

Japan is using P4C atm. Sticking with unless something official comes out from ASW/Atlus.

[swordsman09]

OK I gotcha

[FluxWaveZ]

The only thing I could really consider a nerf so far is the DP change.

The fact that Asterius is unavailable for a short period of time after normal Titanomachia is a nerf (not to mention the fact that the number of inputs during the super is displayed on screen).

[BlackJustin13]

The fact that Asterius is unavailable for a short period of time after normal Titanomachia is a nerf (not to mention the fact that the number of inputs during the super is displayed on screen).

Ah,yeah,almost forgot that bit >_< I guess the number of inputs display would kind of ruin the element of surprise quite a bit. And I'm rather curious as to just how long Asterius will be unavailable after Titanomachia. S. Labrys can sort of manage without him for a while,but it's still something to be concerned about.

[Dusk Thanatos]

Are they the similar? Yes

Are they different? Yes

They're similar -- in superficial, irrelevant ways. Take a look:

F-Tohno vs. C-Sei: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x16_y8lsbtk

C-Nanaya vs. C-Sei: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvmGsegiy74&feature=youtu.be&t=17m5s

EDIT: found a better F-Tohno example

Edited August 17, 2013 by Dusk Thanatos

[Antiquarian]

Ah,yeah,almost forgot that bit >_< I guess the number of inputs display would kind of ruin the element of surprise quite a bit. And I'm rather curious as to just how long Asterius will be unavailable after Titanomachia. S. Labrys can sort of manage without him for a while,but it's still something to be concerned about.

Would be quite interesting if the more moves you used during Titanomachia the longer you had to wait to get access to him again. Perhaps if you only used Titanomachia for the explosion he might even be available right away afterwards.