[P4AU] News & Gameplay Discussion

[Henaki]

What do people seem to think of Kanji? He looks alright in vids, but a lot folks in JP BBS say he's even weaker now.

Opinions from a washed up old man who hasn't touched P4u in a while from watching vids:

He lost some key things: jB -> beatdown combo seems to not work unless in certain circumstances.

His new auto combo seems good.

The loss of a persona card is pretty big, there's a lot of times where, IMO, Kanji squaked out a lot of wins from the 3/4 difference. Thankfully losing a person at low persona levels seems to return it faster? not sure.

His new charge move seems very good, and it's not being utilized to the full potential it seems.

Command throw working while unable to persona seems... bad lol. It just chucks them full screen and does like 100 damage. At least that's situationally useful.

The biggest issue though is none of his changes seem to attack his big problem: good mid range crushes him, and he still has bad answers to projectiles.

A lot of changes also didn't make it through that were listed it seems. I haven't een j.C fatal recovery if it's actually there. I'm pretty sure 5c is still fatal on ch (unless i missed something in the vids).

The overall weaker sentiment is probably less from his changes, but more contextually.

There's room to grow from what I've watched, but considering mostof the chars that wrecked him don't see much worse, or even got better, while his changes don't address fundamental issues (*COUGH* TAGER *COUGH*), he might be less terrible, but he's probably still bottom tier.

In short: Arcsys hates grab people.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Henaki

[Omex]

snip

5C is CH now, and midscreen is drastically improved with 5C and 2C both being dash cancelable forward, 5C > 2D now being a chain, 5B chargable being able to take up space with non CH recovery to prevent people from running in like mitsuru 5a, narukami 5b, etc. 5b worked decently enough in current revision but the increase in horizontal range and added ability to anti air more effectively with it helps lock down running in recklessly for sure.

not only that but the addition of air chairs is really important for his neutral game-he has a huge amount of air movement options now, back/frontdash, double jump, dives at 3 angles and j.c to change his movement as before, but now has the additional air to ground of j.236a and j.236b + j.236AB, two of which are +2 (!) on block. they've definitely given him a bunch of tools to better discourage people running at him at mid range.

also, being given a grab while personaless is nothing but an improvement, i don't know why you think it's bad lol. If you catch someone in a knockdown personaless in current revision you have literally no threat in your pressure since your only option is a 13f normal grab to mix them up. with the addition of a better AoA and grab while personaless if you manage to get the knockdown you can stall for time with a less damaging but no less effective at mixup command grab game, which landing one grab will still give you chair knockdown and give you at least one full card worth of regen time. it does -everything- it needs to do as a personaless grab, give you threat while personaless and the reward being 'he gets his persona cards into knockdown'

5b will be better at eating projectiles + tackle autoguards and stops all projectiles, btw. yukari will be hard but the rest will be improved.

[Henaki]

Like I said, I was going off incomplete video information. I did mention the tackle seems pretty amazing and is currently not being utilized to its proper potential, that move seems ungodly versatile.

5C -> 2D is a chain? Thats pretty baller and changes a TON actually. I still think he'll get dumped on at mid range, but that's reallllly nice along with the dash cancel. That probably takes away half of that space where he's like in close to do stuff but gets crapped on super bad. That magic mid range spot will still destroy him, but that might be enough counterplay to at least fight some of the mid range gods.

I was just saying the personaless grab was funny, it's an improvement but it sounded way better than it is in reality haha. That's just a perception thing, not saying it makes him worse. I thought that was like, a HUGE buff and it turned into an okay one.

Like my gut is he's still gonna be like, bottom 2, but a condensed bottom 2 which isn't really the worst thing. You definitelly have more complete information than me on the matter because you can read stuff I can't

ArcSys has always made an effort since BB to err on the side of weakness for grapplers, and they never add anything that fixes fundamental weakness (where it should be fixed), but instead try and fix it with weird little gimmicks to adhere to anti-frustration which is fine, but annoying for a grappler player. Maybe the tackle is that good though, and I'm wrong about that. Thanks for adding more information though, preciate it. I'd rather be wrong :P

Edited December 2, 2013 by Henaki

[Androu1]

stuff

this has hyped me up for P4U2 more than anything else announced, I'll be honest.

[StandardOil]

Speaking of Akihiko, I hope that Kubo and Moke continue to main him this version. If you've seen those two play in Vanilla than it'll be totally godly and frightening what those two could potentially come up with after going in the lab with him.

Very much agree with this. As far as Akihiko goes, Moke really defines the way he should be played in P4A.

Also, I think part of the reasoning for nerfing Duck is the addition of that new uppercut-looking move that seems to be part of his BnB now. It can be see here at around 33 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQzeo_caZ2c#t=30

You can do it straight out of Duck and it seems to move Akihiko forward. Unlike Corkscrew, it appears you can go into a blockstring/combo from a successful hit so it makes sense to me that you have to make his Duck a bit slower.. Now I'm wondering if it's an FC starter.

[Omex]

Like I said, I was going off incomplete video information. I did mention the tackle seems pretty amazing and is currently not being utilized to its proper potential, that move seems ungodly versatile.

5C -> 2D is a chain? Thats pretty baller and changes a TON actually. I still think he'll get dumped on at mid range, but that's reallllly nice along with the dash cancel. That probably takes away half of that space where he's like in close to do stuff but gets crapped on super bad. That magic mid range spot will still destroy him, but that might be enough counterplay to at least fight some of the mid range gods.

I was just saying the personaless grab was funny, it's an improvement but it sounded way better than it is in reality haha. That's just a perception thing, not saying it makes him worse. I thought that was like, a HUGE buff and it turned into an okay one.

Like my gut is he's still gonna be like, bottom 2, but a condensed bottom 2 which isn't really the worst thing. You definitelly have more complete information than me on the matter because you can read stuff I can't

ArcSys has always made an effort since BB to err on the side of weakness for grapplers, and they never add anything that fixes fundamental weakness (where it should be fixed), but instead try and fix it with weird little gimmicks to adhere to anti-frustration which is fine, but annoying for a grappler player. Maybe the tackle is that good though, and I'm wrong about that. Thanks for adding more information though, preciate it. I'd rather be wrong :P

are you going to ignore charge 5b having massive horizontal range, being safe on block and forcing spin state on non CH for dealing with midrange? because yeah

[Henaki]

are you going to ignore charge 5b having massive horizontal range, being safe on block and forcing spin state on non CH for dealing with midrange? because yeah

i havent see the hitbox or the follow ups, I need that before making any sort of judgment on that change making a huge difference. Very few videos have a clear example of the change (that i've seen). If you hav a good video, I'd be happy to be wrong.

Did the sweep change make it into the final game? It's hard to tell, that was a pretty good one.

You're welcome to PM me if you want so we can drop more Kanji silliness hogging up threads.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Henaki

[Luminos564]

For those who have not seen it in a clear image, here is PerShona's Tsukiyomi in action. And for those excited for Bropei, here he is with the glasses on.

[HoudiniJr100]

For those who have not seen it in a clear image, here is PerShona's Tsukiyomi in action. And for those excited for Bropei, here he is with the glasses on.

Dem shades.

[shtkn]

after watching a few vids, i saw 2 persona breaks and noticed that:

3 card break lasted for 8 in-game-seconds

6 card break lasted for 11 in-game-seconds

which thanks to algebra, means persona break lasts for (5 + number of cards) in-game-seconds

not sure on the accuracy on this. could some others pay attention to vids and see if they see the same thing as i do?

[Luminos564]

after watching a few vids, i saw 2 persona breaks and noticed that:

3 card break lasted for 8 in-game-seconds

6 card break lasted for 11 in-game-seconds

which thanks to algebra, means persona break lasts for (5 + number of cards) in-game-seconds

not sure on the accuracy on this. could some others pay attention to vids and see if they see the same thing as i do?

I'd say that's more or less accurate...provided the opponent isn't hitting you during the "Persona Break cooldown" (that wait period when the cards are broken before they begin to recharge). Here Yukari got hers broken at the 27 timer and she didn't recover it until the 15~16 mark, despite having 4 cards which would likely have lasted ~9 in-game-seconds.

Either Yu comboing Yukari during that wait period extended the duration of Persona Break or some other circumstance is at work.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Luminos564

[Narroo]

after watching a few vids, i saw 2 persona breaks and noticed that:

3 card break lasted for 8 in-game-seconds

6 card break lasted for 11 in-game-seconds

which thanks to algebra, means persona break lasts for (5 + number of cards) in-game-seconds

not sure on the accuracy on this. could some others pay attention to vids and see if they see the same thing as i do?

That's good. It means people heavily dependent on Persona's don't suffer too much compared to Akihiko.

[SoWL]

Famitsu released an article on SHO: he's to be released on the 19th.

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201312/05044085.html

[heavymetalmixer]

This MINAZUKI SHO looks badass and darker, can't wait to see him in action.

[Soriphen]

Watching Akihiko's new stuff...I'm really confused. His pressure game got better, but, at the cost of a nerfed neutral game that ALSO nerfs his pressure game...So basically, he's higher risk and higher reward now. The only guaranteed buff I see is that he can keep pressure consistently now that he can do regular bnbs for safe jump oki anywhere on screen, but, I don't know if that's enough to help balance his riskier pressure game now. He needs either a good blockstring that isn't too risky, or the best overall damage in the game...and so far it seems like he has neither :/. Hopefully sonic punch has good frames on block, cause that seems to be his only hope for solid pressure with minimal risk.

[MotokoChill]

^Caesar just needs to get up in there for him with some more cancels.

I'm sure there'll be more to him than what we've seen so far.

[Betto]

Famitsu released an article on SHO: he's to be released on the 19th.

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201312/05044085.html

Am I reading this right? 214C/D is an HP/SP drain move? Neat-o!

[Androu1]

Am I reading this right? 214C/D is an HP/SP drain move? Neat-o!

Yes, seems like it.

Siliconera has an article on it for those of us that don't read Japanese at all. Mentions an HP/SP drain move:

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/12/05/persona-4-ultimax-ultra-suplex-hold-two-sho-minazukis/

[MegaGrandTale]

Can someone explain the Junpei Baseball mechanic for when bases are loaded? Is it every hit gets him a run cause i saw him do his spin attack move into super and he got 5 runs.

[HoudiniJr100]

Can someone explain the Junpei Baseball mechanic for when bases are loaded? Is it every hit gets him a run cause i saw him do his spin attack move into super and he got 5 runs.

may I direct you to the junpei forums? that might help answer your question should the info you desire is there.

[badgerfan20945]

Can someone explain the Junpei Baseball mechanic for when bases are loaded? Is it every hit gets him a run cause i saw him do his spin attack move into super and he got 5 runs.

Bases loaded right? Spin attack hitting would score a run, and it puts a runner on base, leaving the bases loaded. Super on hit gives him a homerun, scoring everyone on base including the batter. That gives him 5 runs.

[MegaGrandTale]

ok thanks. Didn't know his super actually meant it was a home run. That makes sense.

[HoudiniJr100]

ok thanks. Didn't know his super actually meant it was a home run. That makes sense.

the "HOMERUN!" text when it connects makes it hilariously awesome.

[Number 13]

"HOMERUN!" text should be changed to "GRANDSLAM!" (Maybe some altered aesthetics and/or gameplay benefits as well for performing that feat?) if Junpei hits a Home Run happens while all the bases are loaded just for the sake of being more accurate since Junpei is all about that baseball motif. A successful Grand Slam guarantees 4 runs for the batter at plate and the three runners on the bases.

Just for those of you unfamiliar with Baseball jargon.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Number 13

[HoudiniJr100]

"HOMERUN!" text should be changed to "GRANDSLAM!" (Maybe some altered aesthetics and/or gameplay benefits as well for performing that feat?) if Junpei hits a Home Run happens while all the bases are loaded just for the sake of being more accurate since Junpei is all about that baseball motif. A successful Grand Slam guarantees 4 runs for the batter at plate and the three runners on the bases.

Just for those of you unfamiliar with Baseball jargon.

...you are correct that should be the case. It does go well since junpei's critical attack quote is HOMERUN! :P