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[P4AU] News & Gameplay Discussion

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Not a fan of the new s tiers compared to the old ones not gonna lie, glad that some of the lower ones got higher but then aswell kinda bummed certain shadows just outclass their vanilla counterparts. I think if they did a writeup would be nice I would like to see their thoughts on it.

 

Didn't like how the game became an "Kusoge" (long and super-damaging combos) because of the Shadows buffs, and IMO Yosuke didn't deserve all those nerfs. The glide was retarded and that had to go away but the other nerfs are senseless.

 

Good to see low-tiers ranking up like Labrys but Liz is still not good enough.

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RIP Junes Bomber

 

Also noticed that Shadow Akihiko is strangely absent in both lists. The character seems to have gotten a fair amount of play and from what I heard initial impressions was that he was better than the normal version.

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Pretty sure we've beaten this a lot but again, these tier lists represent their opinion. If a character isn't there it's because they have not played against him enough or they'll rather remain silent about them because they're not very confident. 

 

The only weird thing I see there is Hina not listing Adachi (he had a FT10 with Damosu IIRC) but I guess it's fine.

 

The shadows outclassing their counterparts is pretty much a given. S.Junpei gets all regular Junpei ever wanted (unburstable 10 run combos, crazy meter gain, good life regen,etc) at the cost of doing slightly less damage. S.Yosuke is pretty much going to be the main type of Yosuke when we get the patch on consoles as Pssych said, because he gets the shadow buffs + poison at least, rather than just being thrown into the trashcan.

 

The only Shadows I'm not seeing that much of are S.Rise and S.Kanji, and I guess it's just because they don't get that much when compared to other shadows or their regular counterparts.

 

We've gotten a lot of tier lists now so it's fairly safe to assume that the top three is S.Chie-Mitsuru/S.Mits and Ken/S.Ken. Will we get another patch before release? I'm not really sure about it but I guess it shouldn't be discarded.

 

I'm also very interested on hearing Damosu's thoughts as to why Adachi's so high on his tier list.

 

Also persona's always been Kusoge. Good to see that hasn't changed.

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I think I've seen one S.Rise, but nothing substantial from them. Odd too since every other Shadow console character has more or less proven to be better. Maybe DIE-chan will experiment with her in the future.

 

Haven't really seen any Shadow Labrys (Ariadne) either. I'm assuming the Slab in Damosu's tier list is Asterius? How'd she fall to C?

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I'm assuming the Slab in Damosu's tier list is Asterius? How'd she fall to C?

 

If remember correctly, Sorashido (former Shab main) said that her character concept was killed, mainly due to the removal of whiff-cancelling Asterius' normals. Don't quote me on that tho'.

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Arnei: That's more or less what Sorashido said, but we were speculating on the whiff-cancels. In any event, he's now (or was as of a week or so ago) the top PSR S. Rise.

Haven't really seen any Shadow Labrys (Ariadne) either. I'm assuming the Slab in Damosu's tier list is Asterius? How'd she fall to C?

Because... she didn't. In 1.1 tier lists, Shab was C tier. In the majority of 2.0 tier lists, she's been placed similarly. Koichi and I think Tahichi placed her in A/A+ in their lists, but those are the exceptions. Long story short, Japanese tier lists consistently undervalue Shab for a variety of reasons -- just look at 1.1: her development (in Japan) stopped relatively early in the game's lifespan; it wasn't until earlier this year that BananaKen began playing again and the character was fully fleshed out (air-turn j.214, for example). From what I've seen of 2.0 Shab footage and from the bit I've talked to Sorashido, my understanding is that the Japanese players aren't aware of or at least aren't utilising Shab's new tech (meterless knockdown + stronger oki), which is unfortunate. There also don't seem to be that many high-level Shab players active, which influences tier lists since the makers are assessing character strength based on whom they've played and their own experiences fighting the character.

Having watched entirely too much 2.0 footage from both the top Shab players and more mid-level ones and from talking about 2.0 Shab extensively with Jose, I really don't buy Shab's C tier placement as anything other than "same tier, different iteration of the game." She's ridiculously good in 2.0 -- average meterless damage is up, CH 2B combos are doing the same or more than FC 2B, j.2B/j.BB untech buff is hilarious, she has better pressure and oki options thanks to Asterius's start-up and endurance increases, actual blockstrings... oh, and 2B is jump-cancellable on block. Hallelujah! I've seen players make use of some of her new tools (and they are scary) but I haven't yet seen 2.0 footage of a Shab player who is playing the character to her fullest extent (not that there's as much footage of Shab as there is of, say, Ken, Adachi, Aigis, etc.). My take? "It's Japan devaluing Shab again, must be a day that ends in Y."

Like Anne said before, look at who's remained in the top and bottom five consistently, watch footage, think about the character's gameplan and how easily they can achieve it, how their good and bad MUs changed. From Arena to Ultimax, Shab lost some overwhelmingly bad MUs where her only hope was Titanonachia, and historically bad MUs such as Kuma are now 5-5 or even slight Shab advantage. Looking at 1.1 to 2.0: some unfavourable MUs became Shab favour, some that were favourable are more unpleasant, etc., but she isn't suddenly going 3-7 against the cast or even the top five. Ken has... specific issues against Shab that haven't changed despite his buffs (and the changes to Ken were exactly the changes I was hoping for in terms of fixing certain weaknesses and stabilising confirms); S. Mitsuru and S. Chie are still S. Mitsuru and S. Chie, etc., but the MUs aren't unwinnable.

Looking at Shab specifically: her average damage is up yet again, and neutral was buffed further, but she lost cheesy, abusable whiff-cancels... which is, again, reminiscent of her losing CH DP > 5A combos and Titano spam from Arena to Ultimax. The only major nerfs she took were in minimum damage (150 meter combos with Titano + Brutal B x2 don't hit as hard -- Brutal B minimum damage dropped from 1450 to 1050, Brutal SB is now useless) and her ability to mash 2C in blockstun. On the other hand, 2C, 5C, and the Buffalo Hammer series are now insanely fast and FC; CH DP reliably going into a meaty 2C is hilarious and fantastic, giving her more reward off of her DP since grab set-ups are possible from there.

If you want to know more, her 2.0 changes thread is full of info and discussion, but long story short, tier lists are imperfect and she's really good in 2.0. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Particularly once Jose has a chance to optimise and lab everything in 2.0.

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You know, I just thought the reason Shadow Labrys was C tier was because of her health. I forget the actual number, 8k-8.5k, at any rate, the top tiers are shadow characters with unburstable max-damage combos so they can easily one-hit kill her. In a game like this, I assumed that since Shadow Mitsuru, Chie, and Ken see a lot of play, they reduced the value of Shadow Labrys and make people reluctant to use her and instead pick someone that can deal with top tiers.

 

She's not bad or anything. The top tiers are just really good against her.

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Okusan confirmed some new names heading to Evo. Full list is under the cut: [collapse]Aguro (Narukami)

Pet (Adachi)

Okusan (Ken)

Tahichi (Margaret, Yukari)

Mokke (Yosuke)

DIE-Chan (Rise)

Mui (Aigis)

Damosu (Adachi)

Souji (Kuma)

Yume (Aigis, 2.0 Marie?)

wakabo (Mitsuru)

purepure (Labrys)

Koichi (Aigis)

Domi (Akihiko)

Setsuo (Aigis)

JEO (S. Mitsuru)

Hagiwara (Kuma)

BLEED (Margaret)

Uinyan (Rise)

Cho (Ken)

[/collapse] If you watched KSB or A-Cho's recent 2v2, then some of these names should look very familiar! Which is good, as KSB gave us a chance to see some of these players playing 1.1 offline -- always helpful. Despite being confirmed initially, MAD later said that unless he won KSB, he would not be attending Evo, so I have removed him from the list; if anyone knows something more, please correct me.

As far as who's playing whom: Tahichi stated that he will use both Yukari and Margaret depending on the MUs he faces, while Okusan announced that he was switching to Ken roughly two months ago.

Ho-chan is also attending Evo but since he's living in the US now, I didn't include him as part of the Japanese team.

In other news, LK made a final 1.1 tier list. You can see the original on his blog. The final version (with reasoning) is here, with Twitter discussion flowing from the initial Tweet and a follow-up. Since 1.1 is what we'll be playing at Evo, this is all worth reading.

 

OMG, so many senpai, so much chance to be noticed.  I will have to work extra hard.

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Ho-chan released this list earlier today, reposted here for those who don't want to click:

Collapsed: One more time.:
- Souji

- DIEchan

- Mui

- Okusan

- Domi

- Tahichi

- pet

- Damosu

- JEO

- Shuuto

- Cho

- Aguro

and of course myself

I've asked Ho-chan to review the list I posted previously and confirm/deny any discrepancies. I would suggest assuming that players named as attending by reputable sources are still competing until there's clear confirmation otherwise (Mokke, for example).

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Atlus announced that they will be adding 10k to the P4U2 pot at Evo. Now this is a good thing, however it would have been much better if they had used even just a fraction of that money to support the pots of various other anime heavy tournaments (NEC/CEO etc) just to keep persona alive. I'm not sure what goes through the minds of Atlus and ArcSys but that coupled with the massive delay for 2.0 on consoles, it just doesn't look very good imo. 10,000 is nice though, I hope ArcSys will throw in for both of their games as well!

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Atlus announced that they will be adding 10k to the P4U2 pot at Evo. Now this is a good thing, however it would have been much better if they had used even just a fraction of that money to support the pots of various other anime heavy tournaments (NEC/CEO etc) just to keep persona alive. I'm not sure what goes through the minds of Atlus and ArcSys but that coupled with the massive delay for 2.0 on consoles, it just doesn't look very good imo. 10,000 is nice though, I hope ArcSys will throw in for both of their games as well!

It would be even better if they put up 2.0 sometime soon. Maybe they'll include a new character or two. Doubt it though.

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P much every American player is thinking this.

Not the new characters bit, the other part.

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Updated Evo attendance list: [collapse]Aguro (Narukami)

Pet (Adachi)

Okusan (Ken)

Tahichi (Margaret, Yukari)

Mokke (Yosuke)

DIE-Chan (Rise)

Mui (Aigis)

Damosu (Adachi)

Souji (Kuma)

Shuuto (Mitsuru)

wakabo (Mitsuru)

purepure (Labrys)

Koichi (Aigis)

Domi (Akihiko)

Setsuo (Aigis)

JEO (S. Mitsuru)

Hagiwara (Kuma)

BLEED (Margaret)

Uinyan (Rise)

Cho (Ken)

Unconfirmed: Yume (Aigis, 2.0 Marie)[/collapse]For those who just like stats in terms of "players per character": Narukami, Yosuke, Labrys, and Akihiko are at 1; Adachi, Rise, Ken, Margaret, and Kuma are at 2; Aigis and Mitsuru are at 3.

Souji will be at CEO and has expressed interest in playing long sets; he's also okay with those games being recorded. He also said he's already been reviewing BananaKen's recent footage to prepare for the tournament -- Japan is definitely watching our tournaments (and Aguro watches TSB streams).

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*snip*

 

 

Yare yare. Looks like Japan is sending quite the hit squad to win Persona at Evo this year. Heh heh, I'm trembling with excitement. I think I see a few people I haven't round up footage for yet. I'll see if I can to do that this weekend. Also, please note that there's a good chance DIE-chan will be playing Minazuki at Evo or at least, that's what he said when I talked to him at the KSB after party. He was also using Minazuki during the KSB tournament as well. Best plan prepare yourselves for both, worst case scenario.

 

P4U2 will be at Arc Revo 2015 but as a side tournament running on arcade cabs (BBCPEX and Xrd are running on PS4s).

 

https://twitter.com/ARCSY_Event/status/608563733325991937

 

Format is 3on3 for all three games. Those 3 aren't the only games; there'll be more side tournaments.

 

YES! I have a reason to watch Arc Revo this year! Interesting to see it's a 3v3 this year. I wonder if people will team up in the same teams they did for the big national 3v3 back in March. Hoping for a dream team of Tahichi's Margaret, DIE-chan's Rise and a surprise third player to sweep this.

 

I wonder if there'll be qualifiers for the side tournies. It would be great if there were. Those always give us amazing footage to study ^,^

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Heads Up guys. Xie is doing a Pre-Evo stream right about now on his Twitch Channel. There'll be JP guests like Souji, Mui and Tahichi. Tune in if you're interested!!!

 

My dream team: Kirisame, Yamashita, and Tahichi im sure they could win it all lol

 

lol, this is close to the second team I thought up after the first one. Instead of Tahichi, I had Cho (S. Ken). I caleld the team "Pick A Top Tier"

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3 of the Teddies are in the same bracket. That's gonna be a lot of items.

 

Also good to see some representation across the board of characters. Only ones that are really missing are Liz and Marie. Also no S.Chie.

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