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[P4AU] News & Gameplay Discussion

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Not sure how I feel about Ken's damage ranking being so low considering he can easily scoop 3k off pretty much anything and can extend to as much as 5k with just one super, but whatever.  I also disagree with putting Minazuki's neutral on the same level as Yu's but it's all pretty much nitpicking at that point.  Good to see a reasoned explanation for why people think Minazuki is so good even though I don't necessarily agree with it.

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I will forever believe that Narukami is better than Yosuke. And I also believe Mitsuru has the best dp, you can't just cross it up to bait it like Yosukes. But good to see some opinions.

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TS Lord Knight decided to finally make a tier list for the console version, with some really solid explanations behind his placements on his website.  Nice to finally see an explanation on why people think Yosuke is so dominant now.  He even rates each character in the categories of Neutral, Offense, Mixup, Damage, Defense and Awakening.  Just a great read overall.  As someone who hasn't seen or even fought Shadow Teddie, I'm curious, does he have some really nasty mixup or gimmick in Shadow Fury, perhaps with Circus Bear, to warrant the mention LK gave him, despite lumping him in Shadow with the rest of the "undesirables?"

 

http://www.lord-knight.com/p4u2-character-ranking-character-stats/

 

I'm not sure exactly what he means by S.Teddie, but here are a few merits I can think of:

 

-His midscreen BnB actually does more damage, and builds more meter, compared to normal Teddie. Teddie has his own merits; much better corner carry, easy converts to Nihil Hand, better blockstrings, but S.Teddie also gets easy launches because old 5AA floats the opponent and is less inconsistent for blockstrings.

-He's not as potent as Chie/Mitsuru/Naoto, but his corner Berserk combos can still be threatening. They can do 6k+, with plenty of opportunities for Poison damage, and he can make them Burst safe at the expense of damage. His midscreen Berserk stuff isn't as good, but they can very easily push the opponent into the corner.

-Using Berserk in neutral means he can quickly accelerate item orders using Mystery Teddie SP. There is gimmicky mix-up using Mystery Teddie SP > Circus Bear. Since regular Teddie generally wants to conserve his meter for corner carry/damage, he doesn't make as much use of item super. He's not very explored, but I imagine S.Teddie can get some very potent blockstrings and even unblockables with Shadow Berserk cancels, items, and item super. Items also give him some form of gimmicky defense (like Amagiya Buckets) to potentially interrupt enemy combos, making up slightly for loss of Burst.

 

I'm not sure it's enough to make him stand out (I personally feel S.Yukiko is worth a mention as well due to her easy means of increasing Fire Boost), but there are things he can do decently.

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We all think his reasoning could be improved on the character we play, but I'd say that his list seems fairly accurate (to me at least)

 

Let's not turn this into a tier discussion... again :v

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Seems like they once again only list the buffs... Can't wait what kind of nerfs JP players will find tomorrow... 
Anyways, here's the system stuff translated... Character specifics are coming soon...  All done!
 
Shadow:
- Burst gauge added, Reversal Burst is usable
- Attack power increased
- HP amounts has been individually changed
- SP gain amount has been adjusted
 
Shadow Frenzy
- Only usable when Burst gauge is charged (Usable even if you don't have full SP gauge)
- Unburstable
- Adjusted the amount of SP moves use during the Frenzy
- Activating Frenzy with max SP recovers Persona cards
 
All-out Attack
- You can hold the button to do the All-out Rush
- Harder to punish on block
 
Ground Throw
- Is now super cancelable
 
Auto Combo
- You have to use Auto Combo until Skill-move comes out in order to receive the "Bonus".
 
Some Persona-attacks
- In most of the C-moves, Persona is invincible during the start-up of the move (Until they actually appear on the screen)
 
S-Hold System
- Only usable in single-player modes
 
Ailments
- System message is now displayed when you get hit by an Ailment
- In Confusion, you now block whether you hold the lever forward or backward
- In Spinning, the latter half where you can only guard has been removed
- In Freeze, you can press buttons to free yourself
 
Colors
- Some set-up items now change color for P1 and P2 (Teddie, Yukari, Rise, Marie)
 
YU:
- SP Heroic Bravery is now a strike move
- D Ziodyne has faster start-up and a greatly reduced recovery
- Zio's performance has been changed. D-version is a fast projectile and the old D is now the SB version
 
YOSUKE:
- After you use Moon Assault three times, you can continue with Kunai or V-Slash
- Landing recovery from Crescent Cut has been decreased
- Mirage Slash's invincibility starts faster, recovery also decreased
 
CHIE:
- 2C faster start-up, faster recovery
- Herculean Strike has faster start-up, harder to punish on block, SP-version has added projectile invincibility
- Effect of Power Charge is now show in numbers (?) than in a time-restriction.
 
YUKIKO:
- Jump B landing recovery decreased
- B-version Flame Dance has faster start-up, can be combo'd from C-attacks
- All Skills can be cancelled with Phoenix Flame Swirl on hit.
 
KANJI:
- SB Added Cruel Attack is now One More Cancelable and Super Cancelable
- j.C have faster start-up, decreased landing recovery
- 5C hitbox increased from before Kanji, increased reach
 
TEDDIE:
- j.2C can be used near the ground, P-Combo Route added so it can be cancelled from j.B
- You can now use D-moves during the cooldown from Mystery Teddie SP
- D Teddie Warp has hitbox for where Teddie comes out
 
NAOTO:
- Switching between versions of "Snipe" is faster. Final Bullet from C-version is ricochet
- D-version Venom Zapper has faster start-up, combo can now be continued from it
- 2C is cancelable on block

 

MITSURU
- Coup Droit B and SB versions  have faster start-up
- Charged 2B, rises the opponent into midair on hit
- Tentarafoo has faster start-up, can be combo'd from some moves
 
AKIHIKO:
- The opponent isn't forced to start when hit by Kill Rush
- Double Upper is now faster depending on your Cyclone Level
- If you use Hop or D-moves, you won't lose your Cyclone Level and can continue with Boomerang Hook and others...
 
AIGIS:
- When you use Vulcan Cannon, you can hold the button to land on the ground
- Second half of Air Boost can now be cancelled with normals or Skills
- In Orgia Mode, 2A, 5B and Sweep are jump cancelable
 
ELIZABETH:
- Mabufudyne has faster recovery, A-version is now Super cancelable
- Mahamaon has faster start-up and can KO only under specific conditions
- Diarahan now has a hitbox and hits the opponent
 
LABRYS:
- Standard Axe Level is now Green. It's harder to get a high Axe Level to decrease
- When you counter opponent's move with Axe Slash its start-up will be faster, it's also harder to punish on block
- C or SB Weaver's Art: Beast increases Axe Level on hit
 
SHADOW LABRYS:
- Buffalon Hammer has faster start-up, Asterios' endurance value has been increased
- Hammer Upper's (8C/j.8C) start-up is now a lot faster
- Chain Knuckle has faster start-up, decreased recovery
 
YUKARI:
- Arrows from "Feather Arrow" now fly a lot faster and can be reflected from Magaru
- Faster start-up on B-moves
- 6D now makes Persona to appear far away from Yukari
 
JUNPEI:
- Aerial C Full Speed Slide is now a low, Aerial D & SB versions are overhead+low
- You no longer get one "Out" if the opponent techs from your throw
- 5A, 5B, 2B, j.2A, j.2D have faster start-ups
 
SHO:
- You can now follow Dodge action with an attack (C or D button)
- Soaring Fang is now usable in midair
- Height of each Survival Knife has been adjusted, low knife is now actually a low attack
 
MINAZUKI:
- C & SB Dream Fog now causes super flash when the move is successful. D-version is now a strike move
- Recovery of his D-moves has been decreased, Charged versions are now a little safer
- Destructive Fang is now safer on block
 
RISE:
- B ROCK YOU's music note's trajectory can be changed by holding the button, notes now moves forward as they burst
- Tetrakarn and Makarakarn have decreased recovery, added projectile invincibility (SB also has strike invincibility)
- 2B second hit now has head-invincibility
 
KEN:
- Vile Assault has faster start-up, decreased recovery
- Mediarama now has a hitbox and it hits the opponent
- Now you need to hold D to have Koromaru exit from the screen
- Koromaru now executes his attacks when you release the C-button (Doesn't work with Skills)
 
ADACHI:
- Evil Smile has faster recovery, SB-version hits crouchers
- Latter half of Scared? can be cancelled with Skills
- Magatsu Mandala status boost changed, after you use it Adachi's SP Skills leave 2 Ailments on the opponent.
 
MARIE:
- Greatly increased reach on 5C
- "Fallen Angels" (Chocolate) and "Memories of Grief" (Cloud) have faster start-up, decreased recovery on SB-versions
- Run Amok SB-version has faster start-up, can be combo'd now
 
MARGARET:
- In "God Hand" Persona is invincible until the start-up
- During "Mediarahan" Margaret can take attacks from the opponent, increased HP-recovery when taken hits
- You can now delay his Sweep by holding the button

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Yo, those changes are crazy.

 

EDIT: What's the point of those statuses now?

I'm hoping the low tier characters who heavily used those statuses are betting buffs. Make Yukiko B moves do double the hit stun or something to compensate.

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All-out Attack

- Harder to punish on block

 

 

Please no.

 

Everything else sounds like fair/decent adjustments so far though.

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All these changes look great, in particular Shadow changes and AOA changes (except the 2nd one for obvious reasons).

 

S-Hold change is negligible since nobody uses it anyway.

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SP use adjusted in frenzy? I smell nerf, I wonder if they mean less supers during frenzy.

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I'm going to sleep so I can't babysit this. Don't over speculate, don't be a crybaby or freak out, please.

Edit: Also remember this is a loketest, not all changes will be in the game and no nerfs were listed, leaving me to believe there are unlisted nerfs abound or there will be another test/more put into that,

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Just FYI, this is apparently not the full changelist so don't freak out with the "OMG why did _____ top tier char only get buffs" etc. just yet.  This is positive changes only so far I think, we'll see what the neutral/bad changes are soon enough.

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So shadow characters now have higher attack power, an unburstable berserk, and a reversal burst. That sounds pretty cool. I suppose they're going to lower potential damage from berserk combos to compensate for higher non-berserk damage.

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Yo these Liz buffs.  I'm checking my hype at the door, since it IS a Location Test, and they're already once back in the original test for the game, but these sound REALLY nice for her, plus the system changes and likely nerfs to the top tier should help her out as well!  Also, despite it being in moonspeak, it seems like Adachi's Magatssu Mandala Awakening Super is going to grant him a second Ailment on hit in addition to Panic.  Do we have any idea what that might be yet?  Also, since no one's said it yet, thanks a ton for the quick translation work Sourenega!  This all sounds SUPER interesting, and I can't wait to see some videos if the Arc Cops aren't out for them in full force!

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I'm actually glad AoAs will be harder to punish; it may not seem like it online but offline those attacks are really easy to counter with throws and such. In the same light, for some characters who lack mixup power it'll be a great move to throw out and not have to worry about the consequences too much.

 

Also, Chie's power charge levels works in the sense that now, if you activate it to blue, it'll decrease to (hope i got this right) yellow, then red, then disappear. It works like Amane's drill levels when he fails to charge it up again.

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All these changes look great, in particular Shadow changes and AOA changes (except the 2nd one for obvious reasons).

 

S-Hold change is negligible since nobody uses it anyway.

Akihiko's was pretty damn good since it's an inv B Kill Rush and apparently Marg's helps with pressure.

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Please don't remove S-Hold System. Some characters actually need this. Akihiko would lose an important defensive option

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Marge getting actual defensive options with her Supers now actually makes sense if they're scrapping this.  Kinda seems like a really odd change though, since it seems like it was implemented to help ease new players into the game.

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In Spinning, the latter half where you can only guard has been removed

Does this mean no more Unblockable setup combo from Fire break for Yukiko? Sounds like a huge nerf.

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Can someone explain why AOA being safer is good thing? When it's an armored overhead that can launch, and some characters' AOAs are 26 frames with no unique sound effects + their sprites can be often obscured by other effects? When sometimes the launch( :ballPSHO: )/blowback>combo afterward is so strong that CH.5C/B or something > AOA is an optimal punish? Hell, expect to see MORE of them now that everybody and their dog can finally consistently "mash" the hits for D followup FC.

 

Okay, so people were used to it offline and can react accordingly. So what? They're not making faster, so are they literally going to make it like -5 on block or something? Are they going to improve the netcode along with this too so online doesn't suffer the fate of a thousand troglodytes mashing AOA because the netcode makes it safe?

 

Someone please educate me because this must be blind. I'm not trying to be rude or sarcastic or anything like that, I just don't understand.

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Because the only time you even SEE AOA is on netplay in sub-optimal connections?  Arcsys probably wants them to be actually viable in an offline environment.

 

Also, stop relying on audio cues for stuff, you're not always gonna get to hear them.  

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