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ludwig van

[P4AU] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "TIME TO MOVE"

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Got to play a little bit of Naoto at the P4U2 booth at EVO. Naoto definitely feels a lot more complete, competent, and more fun to play.

 

Traps feel like they have a bit more recovery; the timing for airdashing after setting an air trap is a bit later than vanilla. I think this was always the case in the loketests, they just never looked like they visually had more recovery in the videos.

 

I thought the bullet recharge timer would be annoying but I don't mind it so much. She has enough zoning tools now to make up for it. Definitely will take more getting used to though, as I kept trying to refire the gun despite running out of bullets lol.

 

The new 2B is da gawd, looks noticeably faster and has a better hitbox. Venom Zapper is a good situational anti-air as well. No longer can people just derp in at Naoto from the air as hard; felt good to AA Narukami and Aigis on reaction. One thing I noticed though is that it felt like the window to gatling into 5C was shorter. If I waited too long to confirm 2B CH > 5C, the opponent could tech out.

 

IAD combos still work but they feel character-specific/corner only? Swear I got airthrow > RC > jC > 5C > IAD jA jC etc to work on Narukami but couldn't get it to work on the other characters I play against. Will have to mess around in training mode when the game comes out.

 

EX Hamaon auto tracks to where the opponent is. Good if you just need to get in once for the kill. EX Gun super feels dirty. Prevents them from bursting and lets you set up a jC safejump where you can throw/throw bait mixup or go for a fear fuzzy guard.

 

Tried out Shadow Naoto a little. Shadow characters definitely require a different mindset to play; need to save your meter for S. Berserk mode. Dunno the optimal Shadow routes so just tried to do stuff > Berserk > spam EX gun super lol.

That's interesting but I feel that since the old CH 2B > 5C > IAD > j.A/j.B > j.C > 5C etc etc route is gone this shouldn't be too much of a problem. Before, if you pressed 5C right after a CH 2B, and are trying to be optimal, you'll be hitting your opponent just a tad bit too high with IAD j.A > j.C and thus, the 5C would whiff. This dilemma would force me to delay the 5C after CH 2B which was a bit of an annoyance for me personally because there would be times when I would just get a normal hit 2B and a delay 5C would cause me to drop. I suppose to be on the extremely safe side, I could simply gatling straight into 5C right away for both cases (CH and non CH) but that would mean losing a bit of extra potential damage if the 2B did CH and the corner carry off a double IAD combo from CH 2B is just too good to pass up IMO.

 

Now that Naoto doesn't have this combo anymore, I can now relax a bit knowing that she doesn't require such a tight situational hit confirm off of 2B. Sure there may still be the issue of 5C's shortened gatling time which may affect staggers but I'm not thinking too much on it right now lol.

 

EDIT: I just remembered that Naoto still has some CH 2B > delayed 5C combos so I guess we're not out of the woods just yet but at least there's no tight IADs to worry about?

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I was able to play S. Naoto quite a bit on and off stream- sadly they took down the archives, so if you missed them you can't watch them anymore. Anyway, Neo is definitely correct with how great her 2B is now, it stuffed a lot of obnoxious jump-ins and characters are definitely forced to be wary of her anti- airing options now. I messed around with Venom Zapper a bit in neutral and it's a great tool, but whiffing it leaves something to be desired, so be careful when throwing it out.

 

I also agree with the bullet meter- while annoying, it's easily managable and, since you'll usually want to use them in combos anyway, by the time nuetral is reset you'll have your bullets back. Just make sure to pay attention to your bar and don't throw out the gun when you have no bullets lol.

 

Her IAD combos are definitely trickier now, so I tended to avoid them completely unless I noticed they were CH by one of her traps because most of her other starters would cause IAD combos to drop. Also, important note is that 5c> B double fangs will sometimes not combo even in the corner, so it's important to do 5c>2c>B double fangs since 2c is special cancelable now (not to mention the extra fate taken is always nice).

 

About the trap recovery, however, it's definitely noticeable and I gotta say I strongly dislike it, but it is manageable because green traps can't be destroyed by air moves anymore, so when characters like Chie and Labrys tried to run in my face like morons they were forced in to blockstun by the traps and had to suffer my mixup which was fantastic. Sadly, spamming traps is a bit harder now because some fast characters can easily hit you out of it if you do a trap to close to them.

 

Personally, I think S.Naoto is much scarier because although the playstyle is pretty different from regular characters, Shadow Berserk Mode (SBM) gives Naoto so many extra options such as 2 SB gun supers in to Hama mixup full screen off of nearly anything and the meter gain is definitely appreciated for Naoto's playstyle.

 

The timing on some of Denpa's SBM combos, however, are definitely tricky than they seem. I've been testing with Diarmud and while our original idea was air B fang> air a fang> land> a fang. I confirmed this does not worked because Naoto still goes in to the gun stance even while in SBM. He then gave me the idea to test air B fang> air a fang> TK a fang, which seems correct, but I didn't get to confirm it because my TK's stink and since the stations were "winner stays" I went for simpler things to ensure I won as much as possible lol.

 

So far I love the changes besides the trap recovery (even the gun meter doesn't bother me), but I think that's it. If I missed anything, or you're wondering just ask.

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Any opinions on her new autocombo? 5AA being a low is nice, but otherwise how does it stack compared to the old/Shadow version?

 

And how're the changes to her Sweep and AoA working out?

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Old autocombo is still superior to me simply for that safejump lol.

 

And I haven't played the game yet but from what I've observed, the second A may make it a bit difficult to confirm random CH j.Bs or j.Cs into 5A(A) combo since the hitbox for it appears to be a bit low and you may be forced to only throw out just one 5A. But I guess if your reactions are on point this may not be a problem for you. In the first game, since the second A was more or less at the same height of the first A and it didn't push the opponent away that much, it made hit confirming off of a random j.C that you weren't expecting to CH easier at the last split second into something like CH j.C > 5A(A) > 5C > 236B etc etc etc.

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Regular Naoto new autocombo is nice too. 5AA is great for pressure, moves her forward, can stagger to reset pressure, tick throw, delay chain into anything, etc etc. It also automatically does Hamaon if the opponent has 0 fate, which is nice for convenience's sake. I think her sweep and AoA are pretty much the same?

 

Regarding 2B CH confirms, I'm pretty sure I got 2B CH > 5C > IAD jA > jB > 5C to work. I guess if it's done early enough in the combo it will still work, or perhaps it depends on the starter. Second IAD didn't work but could do B Fang > shots for decent damage. Shots are great now since they are completely untechable knockdown so you can run up and C trap oki or do a safejump no problem, while adding in that extra damage, meter gain, and taking away fate.

 

Another nice thing was the addition of air Fangs for air-to-air conversions and corner carry. You can end combos in j236A for extra corner push. It lets them air tech, which isn't the best, but a much more controlled situation than letting them just tech across the screen with jD before. You can go for a tech trap with airgrab or attempt to pressure them in the air depending on what they do. Alternatively, spending 25 meter for EX air Fang gives you even more corner push and you can attempt to combo afterward. With 50 more meter, can combo into Mudoon for IK.

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Any combo suggestions? Like optimal routes and stuff? There is a lot cmv on youtube but I don't know which of them good.

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Just got back from playing some P4U2 at @shtkn's place where I played both Naotos (and a bit of Rise) and here's some of my findings.

 

Overall, the game feels the same, you just have to adjust yourself to whatever changes your character has gone through from P4U1.

 

Thanks to Naoto's IK mechanic having a more of a presence is this version, I have to say her gameplan is a bit more simple and straightforward since SMP is out, Mudoon doesn't wallstick and you don't have to keep wondering mid match whether to go for skulls or damage. That's not to say that she can't deal high damage when the opportunity arises, but overall her gameplan should be a bit easier to "understand" this time around.

 

Aim "nerf" isn't as bad as I think it would be. This is probably because I wasn't being completely mindful of the "reload meter" at all times but more often than not, whenever I did take notice to see if I got my bullets back, the meter was almost refilled.

 

5D changes are nice, but you should still be weary on overusing it like before. Seems like you can't have the "fast" version hit behind if it goes past your opponent, only the "slow" version (4D) can simply by holding 4 when you press D again.

 

Most significant change to me is regarding her traps which is that you can't airdash after laying a trap from a super jump. Since one of the main factors of being successful with Naoto is movement, the loss of this movement option is huge IMO. Also when an opponent gets normal hit by a D trap, seems a bit challenging to confirm into her jump normals since they can tech out sooner. On CH, confirm into 5C > IAD > j.A/j.B > j.C > 5C > 236B like usual but remember that 236B carries your opponent farther so just end it at 236B~CCCCC or super of your choice.

 

I've always wondered why I rarely see Denpa and Waka confirm normal hit 5AA > 5C into 236B and that's because it doesn't connect for some reason. It only connects on CH IIRC (and maybe on crouching as well?). In any case, to me, this is more incentive to play the skull game and to confirm into 2C > gunshots instead since it removes 2 skulls.

 

CH j.B has less hitstun. Tried to go for my classic CH j.B > 2A > 5C > etc. confirm but the opponent techs out earlier.

 

Naoto's new autocombo is nice. Like Zeromus said perviously, 5AA pushes her forward which is nice, and it being a low forces your opponent to respect it a bit.

 

S.Naoto is still a bit derpy at low levels. 5AAA into safejump for meter and nice positioning and Shadow Beserk Cancelling into 236236A+BxN to remove all the skulls and you're set.

 

Well, that's it for now. Tried to organize my thoughts as best as I can but it's been a long day for me and I'm tired.

 

OH AND I 2B'D MITSURU'S J.B. WE FUCKING MADE IT GUYS.

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Its still possible to Airdash after trap set from super jump it is just delayed so its really awkward. A lot of stuff for me personally feel slightly awkward 

 

For me personally a lot of stuff just feels really awkward cause of autopiloting P4U stuff tho all in due time I guess. 5C>236B doesnt work on standing anymore it seems however 5C>236AB still works and seems to have more stun than before so using that  "near" corner to go into IAD>jB>jC>236B>C shots is pretty nice. So guessing SB fang will have more use this time around

 

Mudoon does still wallstick tho if I recall reverse proration on it is less than before. Plus trap combos youd normally do off it dont work anymore due to less stun on traps so still only really instant kill super (or funny reset since its air unblockable)

 

Shotgun seems to have more stun to it so following up after that is easier it feels

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5AA 5C 236B does indeed combo on crouchers. For that matter, so does 5AAA 236B actually, so I guess that's pretty cool too.

 

 

I'm actually really enjoying the changes to short hop. With the new hop cancel you can do some pretty fun stuff with your blockstrings, particularly in the corner, like hop cancel into a j.C then cancel that into j.214CD, and really mess with them if they respect you. Stuff like grabbing, or jumping then going empty low/airdash high/whatever, fun stuff.

 

 

Also, does anyone know if there's a way to turn off the first attack SP bonus in training mode??

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Interesting thing for shadow naoto. You can do sb trap during grounded A fangs and get just the fall without wasting any extra shadow time so you can do some high feint into low stuff with that. pretty nifty

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Interesting thing for shadow naoto. You can do sb trap during grounded A fangs and get just the fall without wasting any extra shadow time so you can do some high feint into low stuff with that. pretty nifty

 

Yeah thats how you have to do a lot of shadow beserk 236B 236A 236A type stuff or you wont hit the ground fast enough to get the followup hit

 

My experience so far with shadow naoto combos > watch denpa combo video > attempt combo > cry

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so is that the secret to the triple fang ^^, being trying to understand how it works and removing the aim stance for a 3ab pick up. if not i've been subsituting with b aim shot or SB shot, overall the damage isn't much different but you do loss the cool factor, guess I will ask my japanese friend for the tech behind this.

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You cancel out the landing of the grounded A fang with a trap set before landing, do it right and youll land without any trap coming out and avoid aim stance. SB trap seems the easiest for me but then again it could just be me tho any of the trap sets work . 

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ic, guess I will try it after work.

anyway playing shadow naoto is quite a work out lol, havent had this much fun since nu ^^,

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You cancel out the landing of the grounded A fang with a trap set before landing, do it right and youll land without any trap coming out and avoid aim stance. SB trap seems the easiest for me but then again it could just be me tho any of the trap sets work . 

 

Yeah i tested it out and if youre doing the ground 236 A you cant actually land anything other than SB trap so that helps immensely. If youre doing 236 A in the air you can trap cancel with either A or B trap havent tested SB traps for it. Hopefully this helps someone else suffering through shadow naotos combos

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To anyone learning shadow naoto combos does anyone have any tips for this combo

 

Full screen gunshots > burst > raid > one shot > OMC > 2AB > 236 CD > jump 236 B > 236 A > trap cancel > 236 CD > 214 B > B+C > A+C > raid

 

im having a lot of trouble landing the jump into 236 B if anyone could help would be very appreciated

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I mean because AB BC have function outside of stance isn't it going to be confusing.

 

yes very but it is an arksys works game after all so if youre not confused youre not doing it right

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Now I'm debating if I need a omc macro for shadow naoto there like a few combo and most of he time you want to preserve your meter for shadow frenzy hence I don't feel I would need to omc macro instead perhaps needed a cd button for better combo consistency. Thoughts?

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@zaeris try using the CD macro and just hitting that macro +A for Shadow frenzy activation

 

So as its been stated before Normal Naotos Autocombo changes if they have 0 fate from ending in SMG super to Hamaon which is pretty nice

 

Shadow Naoto has the same thing as well as if she has 0 bullets she will cancel into B fang instead of B aim, pretty nifty

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