[+R] Order-Sol Critique Thread

[Sesshyru]

@Sess - I can look at your matches either later today or early tomorrow since I'm gonna be a bit busy today.

Don't worry about it, I needa work on my damage conversion from pokes lol. Thanks for the tips.

I have been having the strange issue of pushing buttons too soon and nothing comes out.

[Sesshyru]

I'ma put this here so T.Beast don't go all level 3 on us.

 

 

There's really two main approaches to this MU. Lame as hell, build charge while mostly staying in 2S / f.S range or you can go in with safe, low level charge pressure and build it up whenever you get a KD. If he tries to hammer fall out of your pressure you can blow it up with f.s > 6H or 2S > 6H.  f.S is just a strong tool in general for this MU since it's faster than most of his pokes at that range. If you're charging full screen and he tries to slidehead you, you can be cute and charge burst and the invul will make the slidehead whiff. On defense be sure to FD accordingly and try to read his PB attempts. Don't try and jump out too much otherwise he can just heat knuckle and just put you in the situation again. Backdashing isn't that strong of an option since he has 2S. I have a decent success rate with just mashing out with 5K if he tries for an obvious PB attempt since our 5K is only 3f.

 

As far as oki goes you can use 6K to condition him to block and discourage him from using wake up PBs. One thing to take note is that he's not in CH state during PB so you have to punish accordingly if he does attempt wake up PB. 

 

Overall, be patient on defense. Play a safe offense and Pot shouldn't be too much of a struggle. 

 

 

I usually do ok vs our local pot player, then he gets one or two good busters and the match is completely 180 and I change my play (probably for the worst) and I start to back off / charge.

 

The things I usually screw up the most is jumping / 6k'ing out of the good old 5p -> Pot Buster, and I usually run into pot busters.  I don't know if this happens to many other players but I am a visual player.  If I can see how far a move is, I am usually good.  Johnnys 6p and Pot buster are kinda dumb for me.  If you watch Pot wiff a buster, it doesn't go too much further past his shuolders, but the actual grab range is wayyyyyy further.  This always get's me grabbed.  Johnny's 6p just has a crazy hitbox that I have given up on trying to 'see'.

[Brandinoli]

I'ma put this here so T.Beast don't go all level 3 on us.

 

 

 

 

I usually do ok vs our local pot player, then he gets one or two good busters and the match is completely 180 and I change my play (probably for the worst) and I start to back off / charge.

 

The things I usually screw up the most is jumping / 6k'ing out of the good old 5p -> Pot Buster, and I usually run into pot busters.  I don't know if this happens to many other players but I am a visual player.  If I can see how far a move is, I am usually good.  Johnnys 6p and Pot buster are kinda dumb for me.  If you watch Pot wiff a buster, it doesn't go too much further past his shuolders, but the actual grab range is wayyyyyy further.  This always get's me grabbed.  Johnny's 6p just has a crazy hitbox that I have given up on trying to 'see'.

I try to stay away from counter poking with 6K since it still leaves you at the risk of 2S if Pot decides not to PB after 5P. As far as actually LOOKING at the PB...I personally don't look at the move itself cause if you're in range well there's no whiff animation and you're going to get grabbed anyway. HOS's 2S is a real good indicator of PBs range. If you're hitting Pot at max range with 2S then you're too far away to be buster'd.

[Sesshyru]

I try to stay away from counter poking with 6K since it still leaves you at the risk of 2S 

 

You mean 2S before 6k active frames or after?  If you see the age old 6p -> pbuster grab coming, I think the 6k will net you more damage than anyting else.  You can do so many cancels after 6k hits.  If you mean Pot reacting and hitting 2S before 6k comes out, then dang.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

It would be nice if we could get some video examples of Sesh vs a Potemkin. Personally, the matchup never really bugged me, and given that OS got nothing but buffs in +R (and Pot got nerfed), it should be no big deal.

 

Regarding specific things that have been said here, I would recommend playing outside of Pot's effective range most of the time. Keep your midrange poking to a minimum, as all it takes is one errant Slide Head to end up in a bad spot. The fact that you can Charge at long range means that you control the match, as far as I'm concerned. Use long range Charging to build Level and bait Pot into Slide Head and other risky stuff. You have quite a few ways to directly counter Slide Head (BRP and Fafnir being pretty obvious, RI works sometimes too). Go in after baiting some type of mistake from the Pot player, try to knock him down and pressure until you feel the match returns to neutral, then get out of there and go back to your mid-long range game.

 

Defensively, of the three given options for gettng out of offense (jump, backdash, attack), they all have clean counters that will blow you up (properly spaced PB should snatch up your 5K), so your best bet is to not be on defense in the first place. If you do end up on defense, just be patient and pick the best option for the situation. I'm a fan of 1FJ -> FD, personally, but mix it up. Yeah, you could eat a Heat Knuckle, but if he guesses wrong on that, free combo, so it is what it is. Be patient and try to get a read on the other guy.

[Sesshyru]

I can ask..  but it is really bad.. x.x

[Sesshyru]

Starting at 29:30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywo_x8EmSwc

At 3:35: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VHM1_ZP2BM

At 4:35: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gheqXRtCU4M

 

Somewhere in these other ones maybe.

https://www.youtube....h?v=gsUXbrykh4o

https://www.youtube....h?v=B2tKmlsY0lA

https://www.youtube....h?v=kLRZzDjme8Y

[Brandinoli]

http://www.twitch.tv/arcadelegacy/b/519273179

 

Me vs. Dandy J (Testament) @ 1:11:00 - Was my first time really dealing with +R Testament. Double EXE Beast into teleport was easily the hardest thing to deal with in this MU for me though. Also his 2S being a strong AA took me off guard a few matches.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/arcadelegacy/b/519383517

Me vs. Kyle W (May) @ 1:07:00 - I can't really explain it, but fighting May just clicked with me in this match for some reason. I did A LOT better than the last time we played

 

http://www.twitch.tv/arcadelegacy/b/519383517

Me vs. Kyle W (May) - Grand Finals - @ 1:32:12 - I think I just let myself get over excited at points and dropped crucial combos when I shouldn't have. Also I felt my pressure was VERY linear this set too.

[Dakanya]

only watched grand finals. you can beat her whirlwind super with tyrant rave

 

on the topic of pressure: could probably try to throw more... if you're going to bait a burst, you don't have to drop the combo, do j.[1]pppp~ and stop hitting p when the burst starts up

 

you could probably take more games if you ran more varied oki like safe jump j.S into jc j.H for the fuzzy, 2D gunblaze AC FRC into 5D or dash 2K

 

could be more on point with punishing vertical dolphins on block (don't FD, it makes it harder)

 

if you're going to AC FRC BHB 2 then you should dash CK GB AC as well... don't need to FRC just to do 6H

 

things to try next time possibly: maybe try to get to level 3 more? level 2 and 3 gunblaze are good for antiair. punish shallow jump ins by making them whiff with 2D and then throwing them.

[Brandinoli]

#RIP GG footage :\

[Sesshyru]

You and your twitch videos.

 

I laughed so hard when the level 2 BRP missed Test for no reason and you lost the entire match due to it.  Fk that move man.  It hits when it wants to.

[Brandinoli]

You and your twitch videos.

 

I laughed so hard when the level 2 BRP missed Test for no reason and you lost the entire match due to it.  Fk that move man.  It hits when it wants to.

Yeah it sort of sucks that most of matches happen on stream that don't often put their matches on YT so a lot of the time it just get lost after a week or two but what can you do :\

 

Also I'm strongly considering making a list of characters lvl.3 BRP whiff on at point blank rang. 

[Sesshyru]

Yeah it sort of sucks that most of matches happen on stream that don't often put their matches on YT so a lot of the time it just get lost after a week or two but what can you do :\

 

Also I'm strongly considering making a list of characters lvl.3 BRP whiff on at point blank rang. 

Before twitch moved to the "youtube" video format, there was a program that you could use to download the video from twitch very slowly.  Maybe that exists again?  You can always record the recording and drop it on youtube.  Lot you can do.

[Brandinoli]

Before twitch moved to the "youtube" video format, there was a program that you could use to download the video from twitch very slowly.  Maybe that exists again?  You can always record the recording and drop it on youtube.  Lot you can do.

 

If it was my twitch account sure, but it's not and constantly bugging them to up matches is sort of :\ 

[Sesshyru]

 

Starting at 29:30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywo_x8EmSwc

At 3:35: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VHM1_ZP2BM

At 4:35: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gheqXRtCU4M

 

Somewhere in these other ones maybe.

https://www.youtube....h?v=gsUXbrykh4o

https://www.youtube....h?v=B2tKmlsY0lA

https://www.youtube....h?v=kLRZzDjme8Y

 

Feelin ignored here; or are these matches that bad? LOL

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Sorry, I've been kinda distracted. I'll make time to look over them soon.

[Brandinoli]

Feelin ignored here; or are these matches that bad? LOL

 

+ You did a good job at staying away from Pot and charging to Lvl.3. Pot doesn't have a lot of options to stop you from doing so it's good you were taking advantage of that.

 

+ At times you stayed out of his optimal range during your pressure and prevented mashing + random PBs.

 

- This is a personal gripe, but you got away with way too many wake up Lvl.1 GBs. You can kind of get away with it at higher levels, but at Lvl.1 all it takes is a meaty J.S / 5K / PB to blow it up.

 

- I noticed a few times you went for a meaty 5P and you got CH'd with Gigantor super. 5P and 5K for that matter has low enough recovery that if you see it whiff during start up you can block during super flash.

 

- I didn't see you go f.S / 2S > 6HS once. That is a really good string to condition Pot to not Hammerfall or try to mash buttons during your pressure or at neutral.

 

I really only watched the first 3 matches since those were that matches you have stamped. 

[Sesshyru]

Ty for the comments.

 

I have been GBing to see just at what height that I can get away with it.  I think I can see it now, to know when I will hit or not.

If I wif my first 5p, I think that I screwed up the meaty timing and try to swing again. Bad habbit.

I'll tone up the 2s -> 6HS more.  It is pretty good.

 

One thing that I hate about this MU and Sol or anybody else with a 5p -> command grab, is that mind game. I just don't get it.  Pot is especially bad because the Pbuster range is all the way down the street.  I usually try to 2/5p if I get a free frame or two.  Everyone is always like "1F jump it!", but that just feels like I am getting conditioned.  Zzz.

[Brandinoli]

Ty for the comments.

 

I have been GBing to see just at what height that I can get away with it.  I think I can see it now, to know when I will hit or not.

If I wif my first 5p, I think that I screwed up the meaty timing and try to swing again. Bad habbit.

I'll tone up the 2s -> 6HS more.  It is pretty good.

 

One thing that I hate about this MU and Sol or anybody else with a 5p -> command grab, is that mind game. I just don't get it.  Pot is especially bad because the Pbuster range is all the way down the street.  I usually try to 2/5p if I get a free frame or two.  Everyone is always like "1F jump it!", but that just feels like I am getting conditioned.  Zzz.

 

It's easier to get away with Gunblaze at lvl.2 and lvl.3 since they stay out once their active and can force trades.

 

As far as 5P > command grab goes it's just conditioning. They're making you want to block so they can grab. You have to recognize the situation and proceed accordingly. There's not really much to it aside from trying your hardest to avoid the situation altogether.

[Brandinoli]

I got quite a few matches from this past weekend against Dandy J (Testament) and Amadeous (Jam) recorded and they're not on Twitch! 

 

GGXXAC+R Ohio casuals 5/3-4/2014 part 01/05

 

GGXXAC+R Ohio casuals 5/3-4/2014 part 02/05

[Sesshyru]

Thank goodness no more twitch madness. D$

[Sesshyru]

 

Makingnewnamesisdumb 2 days ago

Is the whole series two dudes playing the same characters?

 

Youtube is priceless

 

GGXXAC+R Ohio casuals 5/3-4/2014 part 01/05

 

@18:52 I started a 6 second long fist pump.

 

Not gonna lie, I would have done a 2HS CH -> j.D CH -> Fafnir CH -> dustloop.  You have enough time to get in 3 counter hits from a full flashing bar.  That test was mad scared though.

 

@19:51 Ohhh shiiiii....  How were you close enough for that?

[Sesshyru]

Getin dominated:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq8vCqCUKJI

 

Startin to get the hang of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSiueU7vK1s

 

Changes: working with f.s more like brandonleeloo said.  It works nice.  You can IDA or 6HS as a follow up.

 

Apparently, even though Johnnys sword is though HOS's foot, you can 2D the 6HS really late.  I thought you had to do it early to catch it. Some times I hate being so visual.

[Mitsurugi]

 

Apparently, even though Johnnys sword is though HOS's foot, you can 2D the 6HS really late.  I thought you had to do it early to catch it. Some times I hate being so visual.

During the startup of Johnny's 6H, his hurtbox moves backward a little before extending forward then hitting you. Therefore, depending on the distance and the timing, you can hit him late as you noticed or he can use it to avoid any HOS's poke/preemptive 2D (far enough) and hit you instead.

[qwerty]

Can't watch the videos atm, but from the sounds of things you're having the typical problems of HOS players who aren't familiar with fighting Johnny.

 

This matchup just sucks for HOS. It did in AC, and it still does in +R. I've been playing HOS quite a bit lately, so I've been on both ends of this matchup.

 

Johnny really does have it easy against you. It's one of the few matchups where Johnny can just press buttons and not care too much about whiffing. At the same time, if you space yourself well, you can shit all over any standing normals sans 6P. But now in +R, you have to worry about Mid Mist Finer, too. That's something you're going to have to deal with either by jumping over it or IB'ing and punishing. As for 2S, you're just going to have to make a good read and j.H over it or something.

 

As HOS, the best advice I can give is to just work your way in without pressing buttons. Run -> FD brake, running jump -> DJ to bait anti-air, etc. are your best bets. If Johnny gives you a free in like 5H or 6H, just sweep him or jump over and punish accordingly. A lot of figuring this matchup out is just having a good sense of spacing and knowing what your options are at any given position. Also, if Johnny jumps in on you for whatever reason, just SJ and j.P him to death. Divine Blade isn't that fast and neither is Killer Joker, so start looking out for that range and react to it accordingly. That's basically your DP in this matchup, and if you want you can OS the first j.P with airthrow if you don't mind getting the Gunblaze/j.S/6P mixup instead of easy damage.

 

That's the saving grace of this matchup: once you have Johnny blocking, he's back to being Johnny. Good ol', no defensive options havin' ass Johnny. If you're being as ambiguous as possible and your meaty timings are on point, there's not much Johnny can do besides block or try to push you out with FD.