SuperJ Report post Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) listed durations indicate the Nth frame after a given input, i.e. inputs occur on frame 0. for example, 5K has a frame count of 16f (lol); if you press 5K on frame 1, you can mash another 5K on frame 17 unless otherwise specified, the opponent is standing calculations take hitstop into account commentary in italics do let me know if any of the values are wrong 2P duration: 10f - you can mash 2P/5P/6P earlier than the 10th frame 2P > 5K/2K: 21~22f (BBU on airborne: 21f) - BBU can be option selected with 236[9]D 5K duration: 16f 5K > 5K/2K: 28~29f 2K duration: 18f 2K > 5K/2K: 30f c.S > 5K/2K: 33~34f f.S > 5K/2K: 35~36f j.K duration: 16f j.K > earliest attack: 29f j.S(2) > earliest attack: 36f j.S(3) > earliest attack: 42f j.H duration: 25f j.H > earliest attack: 38f j.2K duration: 31f 2K > 2H: 22f~23f (2S/2D: 22~25f) - note the difference in timing between 5K xN and 2K-... 2S > earliest gatling (2H on crouch): 23f - 2K-2S-... timing is relatively uniform! 2H duration: 36f 2D > earliest attack: 48f - relevant for ch followups 6K > 5K on stand / c.S on crouch: 42f 5K-6P > 5K: 70~71f between first and second 5K 6P > 5K: 52~53f 6H > 5K/2K: 54f - 6H is +6 on stand; +10 on crouch forward dash duration: 18f earliest P dandy > followup/normal: 15f/30f earliest K dandy > followup/normal: 19f/38f earliest S dandy > followup/normal: 21f/30f - straight from the frame data but worth repeating! 214D > earliest pilebunker/throw: 9f/30f - reversal timing may be different i.e. wider 5K xx 214D > K: 27~29f between K inputs (27~32f for pilebunker) dandy K > earliest ground/air followup: 65f/69f dandy > S whiff duration: 21f - relevant for whiff, 2K mixup dandy H > 5K on crouch: 47~50f 236H FRC: 26~27f 236K > 5K on airborne/BBU on stand counter hit: 50f - 236K stand counter hit is +10 632146P > 6H: 56f - except ab,ch,so,os - for muscle memory purposes, it may be useful to tiger knee or delay 5H slide > mappa/undertow. being able to link 6H after 5H xx undertow implies no loss of untechable time on 5H. one could treat 5H xx undertow as a pretend late gatling with a 3f window: 28~30f 236D > earliest 6H: 65f - in general, post-special timing may vary due to double tapping or negative edging 5K > 214P,P on crouch: 33f between K and pile inputs c.S > 214P,K on crouch: 35f between S and K inputs 6H > 214S,P: 57f between H and P inputs (on crouch: 60~61f) - these are only of theoretical value dandy > K, RC, earliest attack: 12f - hence, perfectly timed crosswise RC 2K has a startup of 18f. seriously, this is a mixup. watch japanese slayers! jump startup duration: 4f forward air dash > normal with momentum: 10~11f backward air dash > normal with momentum: 7~8f - example of momentum preservation: ground bounce > iad j.k, j.k, land, ... 7/8/9 > air dash: 6f (that is, iad has minimum 7f startup) - would be nice to double-check these values - assuming iad can be buffered during jump startup, ground normal > iad timings might be handy... j.H, 6H on airborne: 27~29f j.K, landing recovery from j.D, 5H: 24~25f - depending on slop/hitstun deterioration, listed windows may be tighter 5P jc > earliest air normal: 20f 5K jc > earliest air normal: 22f - earliest j.P is burst safe j.K jc > earliest air normal: 19f j.D jc > earliest air normal: 20f - i.e. fuzzy guard timing Visual comparison of essential links/gatlings (each row lasts a second): 1---------------------------KK----------------------------- 2----------------------------KK---------------------------- 3-----------------------------PP--------------------------- 4--------------------KK------------------------------------ 5---------------------HHSS--------------------------------- 6----------------------DD---------------------------------- 7-----------------------------------DD--------------------- 8-----------------------------------------KK--------------- #1: 5K > 5K/2K #2: j.K > j.K (delayable) #3: 2K > 5P #4: 2P > 5K/2K #5: 2K - 2H(/2S/2D) #6: 2S - 2D (delayable) #7: 2H > BBU/2D (delay not recommended) #8: 6K > 5K/2K on crouch Edited September 28, 2013 by SuperJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MacArthur Blunts Report post Posted August 29, 2013 I like it. You get a sticky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJ Report post Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) frame advantage post throw: CH, JU: +10 ED: +11 RO, SL: +12 AX, BR, JO, KY, MI, OS, PO, SO: +13 AN, DI, KL: +14 BA, IN, MA, TE, VE: +15 AB: +16 FA, JA: +18 ZA: +19 on counter hit (flashing guard bar), you get +2 extra frames. values should be correct, i tested pretty meticulously - after point blank 2D, a safe jump will hit faust but whiff against zappa. from the ac+r system data, slayer has 4 pre-jump frames and 41 airborne frames. assuming that 2D data is distributed the same way as post-throw data (and that i didn't fuck up), frame advantage on a point blank 2D is as follows: CH, JU: +36 (safe against 10f reversals) ED: +37 (safe against 9f reversals) RO, SL: +38 (safe against 8f reversals) AX, BR, JO, KY, MI, OS, PO, SO: +39 (safe against 7f reversals) AN, DI, KL: +40 (safe against 6f reversals) BA, IN, MA, TE, VE: +41 (safe against 5f reversals) AB: +42 (safe against 4f reversals) FA, JA: +44 (safe against 2f reversals) ZA: +45 obviously faust doesn't have a 2f dragon punch - the idea is to describe how safe an immediate 'safe jump' actually is it also goes without saying if your 2D is meaty, you will have to adjust accordingly. now to figure out face-up timings... Edited September 28, 2013 by SuperJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
