AC: General Discussion

[Nehle]

Don't do a bubble loop unless you're sure it's going to kill the opponent (or it's Baiken, always go for max damage on Baiken). Some characters are just too dangerous to let out of the corner regardless of damage. Combo priority against most characters is 1) Kill 2) Knockdown in corner 3) Knockdown anywhere else 4) Damage

[excelence]

yeah i guess, i'll stick with IB, fish, Tick Throw/pressure reset and small combos and let everyone nagging if Dizzy 2hs is "broke"

[bizarro]

Yeah, knockdown is definitely priority for Dizzy because it gives the green light on her biggest strength, which is her okizeme. In terms of knockdown in corner, sometimes I actually prefer knockdown midscreen because it gives me the option to implement crossups. Pros for corner knockdown: opponent becomes impatient to escape, can cause screwups Pros for midscreen knockdown: more mixup okizeme options, can combo into corner knockdown anyway

[Nehle]

I actually disagree with this. Given a choice between knockdown in corner and midscreen knockdown I always go for the corner. In the corner you can get at least two mixups from almost any given setup. And you can substitute almost every other hit for a tick throw. You also have decently damaging guaranteed resets and really damaging non-resets. Midscreen is definitily not bad, but it has its flaws, the biggest of which is that many cross-up mixups are pretty demanding in their spacing requirements and usually only give one shot at the mixup. Also some resulting combos may not give knockdown on lights.

[excelence]

and i'm not really certain if

ini corner : opponent becomes impatient to escape, can cause screwups

is actually a pros in any given situation... for in my case, if my health bar is leading/have a decent amount for it'll take more than 90sec chipping to death i will block as long as it takes, since the succesful reversal on that situation can actually meant Dizzy own the round... i believe other player would also think that way. if they block well, Dizzy pressure wouldn't last forever thought it'll mostlikely unfavorable afterward for them but at least they wouldn't end up dying/got their butt handed over =|

[Gonzales]

yeah i think the same way but you have to remember than not everybody thinks the same way some people are more impatient than others. I have gone to tourney's were people just can't stop themselves from attacking you back when there in the corner.

[bizarro]

Oh definitely, corner is always the safest bet, especially in a competitive environment. Though part of the fun about playing dizzy is showing off your arsenal of different mixups

[excelence]

@Gonzales: that's why i've said "in any given situation" ... it's a lot easier to deal with those who's impatient

[Gonzales]

@Gonzales: that's why i've said "in any given situation" ... it's a lot easier to deal with those who's impatient

i know rigth:yaaay:

ussually thougth the people that are good are always patient thats the differnce bewtween a good player and a great player

[Nehle]

Tick throwing is the natural enemy of patience

[excelence]

yeah i know, but that's Dizzy last option, i've a friend that i rarely fight he also has stupid reflex with tech trap & tick throw(once he break my grab 5 times in just 1 round), IMO it's not something that one can't see, considering Dizzy need specific setup on most Tick Throw attempt ... i even think playing Tekken would help against tick throw games at that time for he's very good at it lol

[Nehle]

Dizzy doesn't need specific setups for tick throwing, in most cases you can just stop whatever you were doing and throw instead, you don't even need to hitconfirm. It's really easy to get in just before or just after a laser or homing pike. It's definitely not last option, then you're just using it wrong.

[excelence]

no, i mean when Dizzy fight an oponent who know how to block isn't that one of her last option other than back off/Necro Okotta Bai? ... the specific setup i meant is, to make the defender feel uncertain what to do, that u saying "It's really easy to get in just before or just after a laser or homing pike" is exactlly what i mean on some rare case is like dashing in start of the match and throw which doesn't exactlly need any specific setup, but Dizzy can't do that all day especially against those who is in-experienced with the game =|

[Nehle]

I don't see it as a last option, regardless of opponent. It's part of the overall mixup game, not just something to resort to if they block too well. Hell, sometimes I tick throw even if I land the hits before. But I still don't see a specific setup for tick throws. Yes, you need to create the uncertainty, but that isn't hard at all, it comes with the the rest of the mixups. It's the same as the S bubble crossup fake, it requires conditioning. For example: Do meaties to stuff reversals and jump-out and when they try to block that you throw them instead

[excelence]

the word i use is wrong i think ... how about "the best option Dizzy has against hardcore blocking opponent" and i've listed back Off (with long range drill) & Necro Okotta Bai btw i know what u meant with throw of out of combos like j.hs(ch) -> throw. while near corner i also did these, it gives the same effect like throwing Imperial Ray, the difference is she still had the tension. back to topic i'm talking about reading Dizzy pressure and know when she has the best interest to just throw out, it's not really that hard to read a throw will come imo ... hell i've never go against Good Dizzy player (;>_<) and done that meaty stuff on that guy, he break it 3 times consecutively... while i do it to 5 other guy that i play more regularly it does work with nearly 90% success rate this far i guess =|

[Gonzales]

dont let this guy mess with your game, i've played tekken and i know how important trow breaks are. In tekken you get more than enough frames to react to trows and still break them. However in GG you only get to break a trow if you press the button within 1 or 2 frames, there is not enougth time for him to react to your trow attemt. He is simply reading your tick-trow attemp and pressing the HS before you even trow him. Next time you play try this, set up a tick and run up to him and poke him if you time it rigth you should hit him as soon as he presses HS to break your trow attempt

[Double]

imo tick throwing (and throwing in general) is simply too powerful for a character like dizzy. even if he techs or pokes you out of your throw or whatever, the risk reward for landing a throw, especially into the corner, is too good. if you throws are getting teched alot, you need to practice the spacing for dizzy's extra 4 pixels a bit more. at least for my fighting style, going for the throw is among the top priorities of my offenseive options. in fact, the only matchups where going for a throw alot isnt a good idea are the characters with strong shoryus that hit multiple times (sol and hos).

[excelence]

dont let this guy mess with your game, i've played tekken and i know how important trow breaks are. In tekken you get more than enough frames to react to trows and still break them. However in GG you only get to break a trow if you press the button within 1 or 2 frames, there is not enougth time for him to react to your trow attemt. He is simply reading your tick-trow attemp and pressing the HS before you even trow him. Next time you play try this, set up a tick and run up to him and poke him if you time it rigth you should hit him as soon as he presses HS to break your trow attempt

i'm talking about reading Dizzy pressure and know when she has the best interest to just throw out, it's not really that hard to read a throw will come imo

and for everybody else is more easier imo, there's like a split second for a throw to comes if they're not stuff u up with any poke because of their what i call "un-certainty" setup is more limited

imo tick throwing (and throwing in general) is simply too powerful for a character like dizzy.

even if he techs or pokes you out of your throw or whatever, the risk reward for landing a throw, especially into the corner, is too good. if you throws are getting teched alot, you need to practice the spacing for dizzy's extra 4 pixels a bit more.

at least for my fighting style, going for the throw is among the top priorities of my offenseive options. in fact, the only matchups where going for a throw alot isnt a good idea are the characters with strong shoryus that hit multiple times (sol and hos).

1 question what's the connection with spacing and tech throwing? if u mean that 4 pixel timing ... it's quite in-human i would say with spacing issue and timming (;^_^)>

[Kurokun]

I actually disagree with this. Given a choice between knockdown in corner and midscreen knockdown I always go for the corner.

In the corner you can get at least two mixups from almost any given setup. And you can substitute almost every other hit for a tick throw. You also have decently damaging guaranteed resets and really damaging non-resets.

Midscreen is definitily not bad, but it has its flaws, the biggest of which is that many cross-up mixups are pretty demanding in their spacing requirements and usually only give one shot at the mixup. Also some resulting combos may not give knockdown on lights.

I agree with the corner being the optimal bet because of the potential of mixups to reset situations. The 'scenario' which is the downfall of most of my opponents is once I get them into the corner, I try to keep/finish them off there. At midscreen though, its like you have to have all your bases covered in the event your 1st priority followup doesn't go through, like you don't get the dash back IAD into combo and they block the whole string, you may have lost momentum in the matchup. I will say though its pretty cool when you get that one knockdown at midscreen, follow with a solid mixup that leads into the corner, and you finish your opponent off there and they're like 'WTF happened?'

Here's my question to everyone. "how do you guys utilize bubbles in oki/mixups?"

At midscreen after throw/knockdown I sometimes do:

-214H, K or P, IAD j.214 K/S or FB bubble, pop bubble w/ j.P,j.K, or j.H,.....

if opponent is hit by bubble and is launched, I combo with something applicable.

if opponent is unaffected, I.....do something else like get out of there, lol.

In corner I -try- to set a bubble during a mixup and pop it trying to get an aerial launch to follow-up and combo.

Any thoughts on this tactic?

[Gonzales]

thats one of the best bubble tactics i've seen japanese players use, i use the same setup also althougth sometimes i go for a trow when i pop the bubble and it is blocked sometimes i get away with it cause most people dont expect me to do that. I dont think its a valid setup thougth:0

[Double]

excelence, of course it isnt easy to do. but its still one advantage that dizzy has over most characters, so its good to try to take advantage of it. i think that its some that is more or less hard to keep track of though, and not really something you can practice in training mode so much, but as i said the upside to dizzy throwing is great.

[bucklemyshoe]

imo tick throwing (and throwing in general) is simply too powerful for a character like dizzy.

even if he techs or pokes you out of your throw or whatever, the risk reward for landing a throw, especially into the corner, is too good. if you throws are getting teched alot, you need to practice the spacing for dizzy's extra 4 pixels a bit more.

at least for my fighting style, going for the throw is among the top priorities of my offenseive options. in fact, the only matchups where going for a throw alot isnt a good idea are the characters with strong shoryus that hit multiple times (sol and hos).

Haven't played a good I-No have you?

Anyway, on topic. I was playing around with Dizzy last night, something I haven't done in a while and I must say I absolutely hate the new input for Necro's Anger. Infact I just came into this forum to express my hatred for it. Anyone else really wish they would bring the old 34123646 input back?

[excelence]

agree with you, I-no hover dash is a bitch nope, never use that one, anyway Necro Anger do shit damages, i only use it on certain kill and hit, she has much better use with 50% tension

[bucklemyshoe]

that's part of why I hate it! lol I tend to do multiple things and sometimes it involves me TKing a bubble with 632147+P and then 66 to dash forward after the bubble is released but if I do it too quick, stupid Necro's Anger comes out.

[excelence]

lol ... u should change your habit with tk hcl. tk bubble only need 2147 rotfl