zaeris Report post Posted February 26, 2009 because its stylish !!! lol, TK bubble are less predictable but still reactable, whether an IAD bubble is a given to your opponent who would run and try to 6p, puffball u, BBU ectera. TK ftw, besides that you have jump, AD backwards/forward as an option. jumping is a good oki if youc an do it well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stag.S Report post Posted February 26, 2009 Yeah TK bubble is good even if it's insanely punishable, because I find that most times I can pop it instantly with a jP or something and trade, or I can IAD back and pop it, or just leave it there and scare my opponent. Lately I'm starting to get the hang of doing my crossup oki, but I can't seem to do this one combo where it's H-H fish, IAD j.2S, laser, land 2k on the other side. Normally my j.2s carries me over them, and I miss my 2k completely even though my 2S hit them =/ Instead I have IAD over, late IAD back j.2S, or IAD over land 2k. The High variant rocks cause of how much damage you can get off it by timing your combo with the fish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
excelence Report post Posted February 27, 2009 err no... i meant Just bubble, not only tk bubble (;^_^)> i haven't really apply one consciously on real match, ... i meant is it possible to bait BBU with it? as it leaves smaller gap to react on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stag.S Report post Posted February 27, 2009 Don't you have to 1f jump it to get it out? I think I've done it a few times by accident when I'm slow with my 1f input and buffered the motion into it, but I've never thought of trying it on purpose Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
excelence Report post Posted February 27, 2009 yes, u press the p/k/s during the jump start up animation edit: the theory is u actualy do the 1f jump by switching fd with bubble Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stag.S Report post Posted February 27, 2009 It's slightly safer according to the frame data because it'd be a 23f bubble, but it still seems dangerous to me to attempt it against BBU's 10f startup, on top of the fact that it wont trade since of his upper body invincibility. It's only safe as KD oki, but so is fish, so it seems moot to me. I've popped low TK bubbles, probably not 1f, but still lost against BBU's, or at most traded and came off worse for it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Report post Posted March 1, 2009 Pardon me to ask such a silly question, but what does BBU stand for? Blue burst? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stag.S Report post Posted March 1, 2009 Big Bang Upper, which is Slayer's Force Break Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
excelence Report post Posted March 2, 2009 @Stag : (O_o) 23f? ... that's slow as hell, ... just trying to find out any specific use/advantage i can get by using it constantly... now i think it's a waste of time to practice it unless i want to do outstanding bubble loop with it lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaeris Report post Posted March 3, 2009 @Stag : (O_o) 23f? ... that's slow as hell, ... just trying to find out any specific use/advantage i can get by using it constantly... now i think it's a waste of time to practice it unless i want to do outstanding bubble loop with it lol the bubble comes out in the 17th frame but no action can be perform until the 23rd frame, something like that ^^, so you can release the air pike to pop it on the 17th frame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stag.S Report post Posted March 3, 2009 I might have read the frame data wrong haha, but it said 22f for the recover of the Bubble summon. Bubble takes 13f to pop, with 6f active for a total of 19 frames I guess. Actually wait, reading it now, and what it says is that you can't make another bubble for another 17f AFTER a bubble pop, so that's a total of what, 30 frames? So that's enough time to summon bubble if you combo it into an air pike to knock them back up, j.HS, etc. for bubble loop. 1f jump bubble is probably utilized against Potemkin or Faust or something then, but even if you jump it looks like you have a solid 8f of jumping time. This is all theorycraft, but it seems like the numbers say it doesn't justify learning, since you can do the loop without it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Report post Posted March 6, 2009 Man! I can't do anything consistently (Ice Spike FRC, 2D cancel into Ice Spike and Fish) in a real fight except for 1 frame jump bubble (also 2D cancel into bubble) and now I'm told it's next to useless... !@#$%!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaeris Report post Posted March 9, 2009 Man! I can't do anything consistently (Ice Spike FRC, 2D cancel into Ice Spike and Fish) in a real fight except for 1 frame jump bubble (also 2D cancel into bubble) and now I'm told it's next to useless... !@#$%!!! Now I feel guilty about not posting on the dizzy forum which is very much neglected these day. ice spike FRC, to do those always attempt them even if you have no bar to pull of the FRC as long as you acquire muscle memory you should be fine in doing them. Get into a habit and it becomes clear when you want to do them then work on the follow up, in the worst case scenario frc dash summon fish. 2d ice spike, to get better at it is to watch your input and make sure you’re hitting all the right keys. you can however delay the ice spike since its main purpose is to bait punisher who think u cant pull them off ^^, remember that the jc is late so you got to time a fair bit or delay the jcc ice spike. The 2d cancel into fish/bubble are easier to do, for simplicity hit up during 2d and enter 214 p/k/s you will get tk bubble or fish depending on your timing of the input. How to play Dizzy well? best advice is to get motivate and imagine yourself kicking ass while you mock your opponents with fish and oki. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stag.S Report post Posted March 10, 2009 @Grey: The best advice for a Dizzy is to keep it simple I think. If you can't pull something off don't attempt it and learn it in training mode until you can. I know that I have troubles with the IAD combo after Ice Spike, as I tend to hit them with the J.S too high in the air and I can't follow the J.HS with a land, j.k j.s j.D very consistently. I do best when I keep things short and simple, Dizzy does amazing damage for the amount of hits she does, and for easy combos. But her max damage output isn't as high as, say, Johnny, so normally it's not even worth sacrificing your knockdown for it. So you can't FRC Ice Spike to keep it safe? Try using 236S/K if they're blocking so you can rush in with cover (The FRC for that move is a lot easier to get too, so it's good practice) instead of using Ice Spike in your combo string. If you can't keep pressure on them after you 2d, You can just use the jump cancel to run away and try again rather then always cancelling into fish or bubble (both of which are still punishable even with 2D cancel) Advance techniques is good, but if you keep your Dizzy game simple she can still be very good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Report post Posted March 10, 2009 At least I can do the Scythe FRC :D. I can do Ice Spike FRC 50% of the time in training mode and 2D cancel into Ice Spike about 75% of the time. My current plan is to not whiff with Ice Spike until I learn to Ice Spike well. For 2D cancel into bubble/fish, what I do is just tiger knee the move and my game plan shifts depends on what comes out. I know it's not the best but I find it easier to do then press up then perform 214K. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
excelence Report post Posted March 10, 2009 well, that's personal reference, i do 2d>ice spike with 8236 input more constantly than just tk the moves , still the success rate is low as hell and practicing the moves itself hurt my thumbs badly and my current plan is not whiffing 2h lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kurokun Report post Posted March 10, 2009 How to play Dizzy well? best advice is to get motivate and imagine yourself kicking ass while you mock your opponents with fish and oki. This is good stuff right here, lol. Advance techniques is good, but if you keep your Dizzy game simple she can still be very good. Application of advanced techniques like 2D special cancel stuffs to fish summon/Ice Spike can expand your options via a hit with 2D but only if you are comfortable in executing it. Once you are comfortable in using the techniques through practice then you can add it to your gameplay but until then it's okay to stick with what you know you are able to do in the meantime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nehle Report post Posted March 10, 2009 I'm actually gonna go ahead and disagree with the keeping it simple stuff. If you're playing casuals, you should try to go for the more advanced stuff to try and learn how to nail it in a match. Sure, it's good to get the grasp for it in training mode, but it's a whole other beast to nail it consitently in matches. In tournaments, of course you don't want to risk experimenting with new or advanced stuff, but casuals are a gold mine for learning what works and when. As well as getting your execution up. At the very least, you should try to go for IBing familiar blockstrings. Maybe even try to find some places where you can slashback. But also try new counters against opponents' setups as well as new setups and more advanced techniques. The only thing you can lose is the round or match, but you can gain a lot more knowledge in the process. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
excelence Report post Posted March 11, 2009 yes, i agree with Nehle, we should pull off fancy stuff as much as possible on casual, don't worry if it fail, but when u success... it can actually worth weeks of practice. about sb-ing i got a little problem with it on block string ... once i success sb-ing anything, the one i go against, almost never use the block string again ... random sb is different matter thought Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kurokun Report post Posted March 11, 2009 I tend to go 'all out' in casuals, lol. If I hit and combo into an Ice Spike FRC, I will most likely utilize an IAD follow up combo afterwards or sometimes use a follow up combo on the ground into another Ice Spike, w/ or w/o FRC. In regard to oki setups, I'm likely to not use the same setup twice in a row but instead use a different/variant setup to hopefully catch the opponent off guard or to bait for a counter in response to an opponent's reprisal attack. I'm also fond of utilizing FB bubble as part of my gameplay strat and looking for opportunities to land a bubble loop if it's applicable at the time. That's just me though, lol. I like to experiment in casuals to see what works or doesn't work as well as to see what I'm able to do in a given situation, but it's mainly to get the experience of utilizing and executing advanced stuff in a real match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Report post Posted March 17, 2009 Anti Air: 2S CH 421 j.H 214K]S[ |> j.S j.S j.D (216) How can this possibly be done??? I can't cancel 2S into this, and if I wait until I recover from 2S the enemy is long gone! I'm trying to do this in training mode CH Sol's wall kick thing if it matters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
excelence Report post Posted March 17, 2009 O_o? u can special cancel 2s with anything ... the hard part of that combos is hitting the 421 after 2s ch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stag.S Report post Posted March 17, 2009 Nehle you didn't disagree with me at all haha, all I mentioned was that to perform better, simple stuff would be more beneficial than the advanced techniques. Also, Grey, do you mean cancel from 2S? It shouldn't be hard at all to get the 421S out after you land a 2S bu I remember hearing somewhere that it's iffy and it only works on CH so it'd be better to follow up with a jump cancel combo instead, something simple like j.k j.S dj.k j.s j.d since that'd combo off of a non CH as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woki Report post Posted March 17, 2009 CH Sol's wall kick thing if it matters. Yes, it actually matters. That 2S CH combo doesn't really work on Sol when he's doing 214K, because 421S whiffs. Try the combo on a different character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Report post Posted March 17, 2009 Hm that's odd because I can cancel 2S into pretty much anything except for the pike. Really weird, I guess I'll try it some more. So in general is it just better to rely on something like j.k -> follow-up? Is there any character that's so much easier to combo on that I should try do some bubble combo on? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites