[CP] Kokonoe - Combo Thread [Updated 03/25/2014]

[PozerWolf]

The one I've posted above is the max damage I think but is corner only, forgot to say that you need to remove 6B at the end, so the notation is :

- (crouch) jC > j236D |> 5B > 2C > 6C > jc jC > j5D > jC > j214D > jC > j2C whiff |> 6[A] > 22B > 5B > 5C > 6[A] > 6D > 5C > 236B > 22B > 5C > 236C for 5737dmg.

Midscreen unless it would kill, I use combos that end into meaty fireball setups, so the damage is a lot less, 3.5k really far from corner, 4.1k if I can end in corner, max damage I would need to check but that should be around 4.5k I think.

Oh I'm retarded, totally didn't see that one even after looking at the list.

Thanks for that.

[someonewhodied]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXsXtNSx5lY

Who needs damage when you have swag

Better version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiImwo0GlEc

Notation:

Midscreen to corner.

6B>4D>5B>5C>IADj.B>j.C>j.2C(Whiff)>663C>[22B]>3C>22C>5B>236A>]22B[>6B>214214A>4D~236D>2366C

From between 3/4ths stage from corner to half stage from corner.

Without the corner, you have to bid on the small-launch with activation, or go with the non-launch ender.

[someonewhodied]

5C CH corner:

5CCH>[22B]>5C+]22B[>6C>j.5D>j.B>dj.C>j.2C>j.236D>2C>6{A}>[22B]>5B>5C+]22B[>6{A}>6{B}>236B>5C>214214A>4D~236D>236C

7445 to 7519 damage. (Depending on the delay for shooting superball with 236D)

[BananaKun]

This is super early even for speculation, but I was messing around with some ideas for the new patch and found some interesting setups:

Using overdrive to go into max range blackhole setup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEPKT_SHQkQ

Max range blackhole without overdrive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tToSIbREglQ

Even if OD blackhole will behave like old blackhole, I would rather go for optimal/near optimal OD combo damage while still getting a guaranteed blackhole reset that doesn't rely on OD being active.

There's something weird about blackhole, its recovery varies depending on whether it hits frame 1 or later. The recovery is 1f more when you hit it on the blackhole's 1st active frame as opposed to later in its active frames. Playing around with the frame data it seems like to get bonus damage your attack must hit on frame 47 after recovering for a frame 1 hit, frame 48 otherwise.

Ranged frame 47 options:

22C>3C

22C>5C

Ranged frame 48 options:

2A(w)>236B

22C>214214C

[Loli Bacon]

Sounds like too much work, considering her damage is going down now. The chances of having 50 meter in the corner with an optimal hit when the opponent doesn't have a burst OR doesn't have 50 meter AND is a character that can super out of it isn't worth it to me. I'd rather go for infinite blockstring since that might be unchanged, and then go into either 2B/6B from 5A > 5A during the string, or put in a surprise CT. I'd say blackhole setups in the corner can be optimized instead for blockstrings after a confirmed block. Something along the lines of:

22B > 214A > 5A > 5A > 2B > 5C > 2C > blackhole

With this at least, I can confirm if they've been hit by anything prior and I can save my meter for CA/Super Ball/CT/6B rapid mixups, because god knows we don't have mixups now.

Nice setups, but I wonder if the effort is worth the payout/situational properties of the setup. The throw one is nice, and so it's good to learn that one. =P

[Pen_Ninja]

The problem with corner black hole post-patch is that the black hole will now be active off screen and wont hit if you do it in the corner.

Pre-patch the range adjusts so that it hits in the corner. Post-patch it'll just whiff off screen. That makes it hard to blockstring into black hole because you'd need something really long range to do so.

[BananaKun]

Sounds like too much work, considering her damage is going down now. The chances of having 50 meter in the corner with an optimal hit when the opponent doesn't have a burst OR doesn't have 50 meter AND is a character that can super out of it isn't worth it to me. I'd rather go for infinite blockstring since that might be unchanged, and then go into either 2B/6B from 5A > 5A during the string, or put in a surprise CT. I'd say blackhole setups in the corner can be optimized instead for blockstrings after a confirmed block. Something along the lines of:

22B > 214A > 5A > 5A > 2B > 5C > 2C > blackhole

With this at least, I can confirm if they've been hit by anything prior and I can save my meter for CA/Super Ball/CT/6B rapid mixups, because god knows we don't have mixups now.

Nice setups, but I wonder if the effort is worth the payout/situational properties of the setup. The throw one is nice, and so it's good to learn that one. =P

Assuming this still works, it *barely* got any harder: it went from doing 22B>3C every time to doing several non-airtight steps for the setup into two/three different routes that are similar to 22B>3C in difficulty. I'm not sure why her damage going down is a dealbreaker for doing blackhole setups though? I found those setups to time the bonus damage precisely so that they don't end up being too much work.. advanced input is your friend. The varying recovery post-blackhole is dumb, but if you know about it you can work around it on the fly.

As for blockstring setups, they would only work in overdrive mode. In this case you can just do her old setups. Keep in mind the way the blockstring works is that pushback is being negated once the opponent is blocking projectiles, so it's highly unlikely that you'd be far enough even if they instant barrier (that's another problem, variable pushback).

Think of scenarios like this: at or close to corner 3C>ODC>6A>6C>9D>Activate>22B>2C(walk back)>6[A]>6D>5C>236B>(setup). Something like this would do 4k+ damage, then a blackhole combo for 6k+. This is going to be scaled down, but for overdrive and 50 meter that's still massive amounts of damage. Not to mention that if they burst they'll still eat like 3k damage + lose burst while you only lose overdrive. Maybe there's a way to go into blackhole setup off 2A/5A as well, just haven't tested this yet.

Without 236A>5A, you need a low like 3C/2B with a graviton set, a throw, a 6B, 3C>ODC, maybe even an anti-air 6A combo.

[Loli Bacon]

Assuming this still works, it *barely* got any harder: it went from doing 22B>3C every time to doing several non-airtight steps for the setup into two/three different routes that are similar to 22B>3C in difficulty. I'm not sure why her damage going down is a dealbreaker for doing blackhole setups though? I found those setups to time the bonus damage precisely so that they don't end up being too much work.. advanced input is your friend. The varying recovery post-blackhole is dumb, but if you know about it you can work around it on the fly.

As for blockstring setups, they would only work in overdrive mode. In this case you can just do her old setups. Keep in mind the way the blockstring works is that pushback is being negated once the opponent is blocking projectiles, so it's highly unlikely that you'd be far enough even if they instant barrier (that's another problem, variable pushback).

Think of scenarios like this: at or close to corner 3C>ODC>6A>6C>9D>Activate>22B>2C(walk back)>6[A]>6D>5C>236B>(setup). Something like this would do 4k+ damage, then a blackhole combo for 6k+. This is going to be scaled down, but for overdrive and 50 meter that's still massive amounts of damage. Not to mention that if they burst they'll still eat like 3k damage + lose burst while you only lose overdrive. Maybe there's a way to go into blackhole setup off 2A/5A as well, just haven't tested this yet.

Without 236A>5A, you need a low like 3C/2B with a graviton set, a throw, a 6B, 3C>ODC, maybe even an anti-air 6A combo.

Have you tested these setups against the cast? I've noticed variable timings for the 22B > 3C routes, and I fear that might be the same with these.

[BananaKun]

Have you tested these setups against the cast? I've noticed variable timings for the 22B > 3C routes, and I fear that might be the same with these.

Yes, 2A(w)>236B whiffs against these characters: Taokaka, Makoto, Ragna, Arakune, Tsubaki, Valk, V-13, Bang. As far as I can tell nothing about the timing changes, it's just hitboxes not working in your favor due to 236B not reaching far enough. Maybe there's another setup that can be used for these guys instead, but there's always the 663D>3C route which is fairly easy to hit, but tricky for the bonus damage since you have to time the 3C "manually".

22C>3C for the frame 1 blackhole has no problems on anyone, and maybe 22C>5C could whiff midscreen? Though I have no idea why you would do that.

EDIT: I haven't tested this thoroughly or anything, just quick and dirty so I may have just been bad and missed the timing. I haven't tested 22C>Superball.

[Loli Bacon]

Yes, 2A(w)>236B whiffs against these characters: Taokaka, Makoto, Ragna, Arakune, Tsubaki, Valk, V-13, Bang. As far as I can tell nothing about the timing changes, it's just hitboxes not working in your favor due to 236B not reaching far enough. Maybe there's another setup that can be used for these guys instead, but there's always the 663D>3C route which is fairly easy to hit, but tricky for the bonus damage since you have to time the 3C "manually".

22C>3C for the frame 1 blackhole has no problems on anyone, and maybe 22C>5C could whiff midscreen? Though I have no idea why you would do that.

EDIT: I haven't tested this thoroughly or anything, just quick and dirty so I may have just been bad and missed the timing. I haven't tested 22C>Superball.

I think the setup would require more testing, then. Think we should wait?

[BananaKun]

I think the setup would require more testing, then. Think we should wait?

What kind of testing are you talking about?

As far as waiting, we're stuck with the patch until May and won't even get new information until JP arcade release, but knowing more setups for timing blackhole followups is never a bad thing. I've found myself many times with a blackhole outside 22B>3C range, and I would definitely favor doing 2A(w)>236B if I know it works on a certain character, or 22C>3C.

I personally don't understand the need to wait. I find that she is an enjoyable character to mess around in training mode with, the patch notes just give you a new set of restrictions you need to work around. Even if none of this works at all I wouldn't have wasted my time since I had my fun figuring out these things. I realize most people aren't concerned with these things, but I share them here just in case.

EDIT: Maybe this is better suited for combo discussion? Both the blackhole setups and followups work, but the blackhole setup is obviously motivated by the upcoming patch.

[someonewhodied]

For kicks midscreen:

5B>5C>3C>214214A>3D~236C>236D>66B>22A>6[A]>6>236B

[BananaKun]

j.A fuzzy guard instant overhead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l01Sbkr6eI

Works on characters with tall standing guard hurtboxes: Azrael, Ragna, Hazama, Hakumen, Relius, Litchi, Valkenhayn, Tager, Nu-13, Mu-12, Noel, Tsubaki. Haven't tested on Terumi/Kagura, don't have them yet :o

In 1.1 j.2C is getting some landing recovery + floatiness, which will require j.2C to be hit as close as possible to the ground. Even then it might not be possible anymore, at least meterless. You should be able to RC a j.2C to cancel the landing recovery and then do the j.A though, which would give Kokonoe a cheap instant overhead against most characters even if you have to spend meter for it.

[someonewhodied]

Here is a fun corner combo:

6B>4D>5B>5C>236B>22B+]236B(2)[>236D>]22B[+214A>sj.C+]214A[>j.2C>j.214214A>2D~236D>236C

[Kurushii]

Your notation is confusing.

[someonewhodied]

]input[ means a previously set attack hits

[someonewhodied]

7777 damage, last hit does 7 damage.

50 meter, corner, 5C CH punish.

665C(CH)>[22B]>5C>9D+]22B[>2C>6C>dj.2C>j.236D>falling j.5C~j.2C(Whiff)>6[A]>[22B]>5B>5C>6[A]+]22B[>6B>236B>5C>214214A>3D~236D>236C

[tetora_desu]

If it sounds confusing it MUST be good. 

[someonewhodied]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r8R0dkJJ8I

 

Double superball ender. Works off longer combos too. So long as the combo allows the 2A>5B link at that point.

 

 

4624 damage meterless off of unteched j.2C in the corner

j2C>2A>5C>6[A]>2C>6[A]>22B>5B>5C>6C>dj.C>j.D>j.236D>6[A]>6>236B>5C>22B

[tetora_desu]

What do you guys find the most optimal combo of of 6B(2) and 6C? I feel like i'm not getting enough of what I can with them.

[Maho]

For 6B I do those :

 

- Midscreen : 6B > 8D > 6A > delay 236D > 22B > 2C > 6[A] > 6 > 5D > 5B > (5C) > 236A > 3C > 236C for damage (4197dmg) or 214A/B for oki (don't do the last 5C in that case, 3625dmg).

I actually don't do this one much because you can corner carry from anywhere with Koko with the combos listed under, the midscreen fireball oki can be interesting, especially against chars that get out of BH setups.

 

- Corner carry : 6B > 4D > 5B > 5C > iad jB(2) > jC > j2C whiff |> dash 5C > iad jB(1) > jC > j6D > j236D |> (dash 2C > 6B if close enough from the corner) > 236B > ender (3555dmg with 5C > 22B ender).

 

- Side switch back close from corner : 6B > 4D > 6A > 22A > dash 2C > 6C > jc jC > j5D > jC > j2C whiff |> 236D > 22B > 5C > walk a bit 6[A] > 5C > 236B > ender (3898dmg with 5C > 22B ender).

 

- Side switch away from corner with oki : 6B > 4D > 6A > 22A > dash 2C > 6C > jc jC > j6D > j236D |> 236B > 5C > 6[A] > 6D > 5C > 6 > 214A (3363dmg).

 

- Corner, optimized for meterless damage : 6B > 9D > 5B > 5C > 2C > 6C > jc j2C > j236D |> 6[A] > 22B > 5B > 5C > 6[A] > 6D > 5C > 236B > 22B > 5C > 236C (4634dmg).

 

- Corner, optimized for superball ender : 6B > 6D > 5B > 5C > 2C > 6C > jc jC > j5D > jC > j2C whiff |> 22B > 5C > walk a bit 6[A] > 5C > 236B > 5C > jc jC > j2C > j214214A > 7D > 236D > 236C (5820dmg).

 

The last two combos does the same damage if you go for a 5C > 22B, go for the first one as it uses less drive meter and is a bit easier.

 

For 6C, I use mostly combos that you can find on the first page of the thread, I also do the same side switches combos that I listed above just replace 6B with 6C > j4D > delay jB(1) and then continue from 22A, of course remove the 6C later in the combo to avoid SMP.

[someonewhodied]

6B(2):

6B>4D>5B>5C>iadj.B>j.C>j.2C(whiff)>663C>22B>3C(Crossed under)>22C>5B>236A>66B>236B

[Dark_Ky]

6B(2):

6B>4D>5B>5C>iadj.B>j.C>j.2C(whiff)>663C>22B>3C(Crossed under)>22C>5B>236A>66B>236B

 

i have huge problems with this part. i simply cannot connect the second 3C, most of the time they simply fall out  

 

whats the trick?

[someonewhodied]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiImwo0GlEc

 

Here is a video example so just compare your timing to that. It may not work on ragna for some reason. Its kinda inconsistent on him, but it works on anyone else.

[Jimmy_The_Panda]

I was playing around with Kokonoe and I found this:

 

B+C > 4D > 236C > Dash B > 6A > j.B (2) > J > j.B (2) > j.A (3)   (60 hits total)

It's about 3243 dmg, and after that, the Graviton goes away after the opponent recovers

 

I have some others I haven't seen before, but I don't really remember. I'll be sure to update when I do <3

 

EDIT #1

 

B+C > 8D > j.B (2) > J > j.B(2) > j.2C > j.236D (1) l> j.B > J > j.B > j.A (3)

Exact same amount of damage as the last, 16 Hits.