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Phrekwenci

Zappa Love+R (the practical AC+R thread)

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I just realized something about the sword uppercut. I've been having problems with it recently since only the sword is active during the move and if you try to do a reversal when the sword is too far away it will whiff. I think instead of using this as a reversal like most uppercuts, I think we should think about using it as something to cover the space between Zappa and the opponent if the sword gets behind the opponent. Since it's returning to Zappa while active. Unlike the sword rush, where Zappa is active. I'll probably make a video for this too but just as a concept, sword gets behind opponent maybe using the sword rush and gives the opponent an opportunity to come in while Zappa is unarmed. Using the sword uppercut will be active hitting the opponent while it returns. This particular setup might leave Zappa vulnerable unless the animation is (F)RCed. I'm thinking there might be some anti-air applications instead but I need to do some more testing with scenarios.

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I just realized something about the sword uppercut. I've been having problems with it recently since only the sword is active during the move and if you try to do a reversal when the sword is too far away it will whiff. I think instead of using this as a reversal like most uppercuts, I think we should think about using it as something to cover the space between Zappa and the opponent if the sword gets behind the opponent. This particular setup might leave Zappa vulnerable unless the animation is (F)RCed. I'm thinking there might be some anti-air applications instead but I need to do some more testing with scenarios.

For some reason on block or hit the FRC point on 623H gets pushed back compared to where it is on whiff way more than any other move. Sword DP has a lot of hit/block stun, and the FRC point gets put almost completely behind those frames. It feels like a good half second or more, and it lets you get away with kind of a ghetto option select in that if you whiff and FRC with the normal timing you'll get it and on hit or block, you still have time to like... FRC confirm once you see that you made contact.

When I actually remember to do it, j. 236H FRC has been really good as an oh shit button when they get behind the sword in a lot of matchups. Depeding on how close they are you can neutral jump or jump back. Sword DP is arguably more rewarding on hit and gives you slightly more frame advantage on block after an FRC, but j. 236H is less of a risk in that it always brings the sword completely back to you, you're not stationary, and the hitbox is less specific.

I've been spending most of my time with the dog lately. Definitely the most entertaining/challenging summon.

Edited by 9:02 PM

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For some reason on block or hit the FRC point on 623H gets pushed back compared to where it is on whiff way more than any other move. Sword DP has a lot of hit/block stun, and the FRC point gets put almost completely behind those frames.

I guess that it's because:

jH and 63214H FRC frames are exactly at the start of the active frames.

623H is right in the middle of the active frames.

If you FRC as fast as possible with jH and 63214H, there will be no delay because of the hitstop not kicking in during the first active frame hence making them easy.

However for 623H, its FRC frames are always affected by hitstop because they are right in the middle of it. Unless the opponent dash/Airdash on your face and gets hit at this specific point though.

As for j236H and 236S, the FRC points are during specific frames in the recovery so hitstop shouldn't matter that much.

I agree with using j236H rather than 623H though for this kind of situation.

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Hey new sword mix-ups I made this morning. After being close with the sword the beginning of this is always 6P, 2S, 2HS JC as a block string which they will have to block low. The JC will reset the pressure or retreat depending on what you want to do and the end on the string is when you'll land from the air.

...JC backward jS, jHS FRC, jS, jHS. Real BnB here just to get some distance between you and the opponent and start pressure from afar.

...JC backward jS, jHS FRC, IAD forward jK or jS, etc. If you want to make them think you are retreating, you can use this and stay close. Some will be prepared to IAD after you so this might stop them.

...JC forward jS, jHS FRC, jK, jS. This is in my video, the jK helps push the opponent over without the sword whiffing.

...JC forward jS, jHS FRC, delay airdash forward jP, jD. People with really good reaction time can definitely airthrow you out of this. To keep them on their toes use this next one.

...JC forward jS, jHS FRC, delay airdash backward jHS. Using jS at the end instead of jHS will probably whiff unless the opponent is in the corner or you delay the attack a bit as you move farther away.

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Some notes on stuff I've been practicing with:

Sword:

5S doesn't move. It goes forward slightly then returns to original position before attack, so this is very good if the sword is near you and you need to initiate. I believe 2S behaves the same way, though it might move forward a bit, can't remember right off the top of my head.

Sword slide is extremely situational now. If you can't connect with it, do not ever use it. The whiff pose is just too long. Instead, if you need to bring the sword back, try jumping backwards, doing a DP, or TK'ing swordspin.

2HS will sometimes spin back at the opponent if it is far enough past them. I've only seen this happen once or twice though, I don't know how useful it is.

5HS is a great attack to advance and push the opponent away with. 6HS is very nice too, and although slow, can lower the swords position as well.

2S->Swordswipe makes swordswipe come out very low, useful for stuffing sweeps and low character (i.e. mirror matching zappa for instance, faust when he's crouching, etc.)

Air sword is pretty weird. j.S seems to move the sword forward quite a bit. j.HS moves it forward and down. If you position it right it is possible to do a 2HS j.K j.S dj.K dj.S swordspin combo still. j.HS is great for jumping backwards and repositioning and keeping the opponent down on the ground, especially if you think they will try to jump over the sword.

Uppercut still has that weird FRC timing as you guys mentioned, that's actually a really old thing with it. The FRC is right at the end of the active frames, and it's tricky to get the timing right if the sword is a great distance away since you don't have the same visual cues. The best I can offer is pay attention to the blood splatter, it's just around when it reaches peak height.

Dog:

Dog is vicious still, positioning him feels better somehow now. Doing extendend combos is hard however, due to the new pushback and limitations on dog timing. Part of it is intuitively knowing when you need to do a dog chain attack and when you need to move him. It also depends largely on who you're fighting.

5D is strong. Very very strong. It has a whiff range if their on top of the dog (for instance, in some situations you can get the dog completely in the corner on top of the opponent and all moves will whiff there) but if you can position him just right it can be very hard for opponents to escape.

Knowing when to use 6D and 8D will keep them scared of the dog. I haven't mastered long combos yet, so I generally take advantage of short combos with intense pressure and simply keep my opponent guessing on what I'm going to do next. You can fake them out by making the dog do something and then throw them instead, if they have a particularly good defense.

Dog+Zappa synergy is improving well for me. It feels really easy to command the dog and zappa at the same time now (5D run in 2K c.S f.S 5D still sorta works, but due to pushback you can't really keep that up long. But you can quickly reposition mid combo string and continue the pressure/combo if you know how, j.P seems useful here).

Ghosts:

Ehh. They seem pretty weak now, in comparison. Still great pressure and screen control but nothing really changed here.

Raou:

Is it just me or does edguy launch them higher/farther? I was having trouble getting the Edguy RC 6HS to connect, it felt like a different timing. Anyways, Raou is still a monster, and the new aerial moves are silly. I haven't gotten much use out of them yet but I can see where it'd be ridiculous.

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I have a quick question regarding Raoh BnBs, keep in mind I'm VERY unfamiliar with and unused to actually doing combos with Raoh and to an extent Zappa in general, I started playing GG and Zappa WAAAY back when, when my execution was even more ass than it is now, so I just focused on learning to control space and setting up oki as I got better instead, but I find now as my competition gets stiffer I need to actually learn to properly hitconfirm otherwise I waste those precious few seconds I get to be a broken piece of ****

Anyways, I've been doing 236S~K>6HS loops in the corner and off of a j.HS I've been doing [j.HS]>j.S>j.HS>j.236S>airdash>j.K>j.D>214S, but I have no idea what to do midscreen off a ground hit and its hard to find any combo stuff specifically related to +R so I figured I'd ask here

tl;dr - what are the most optimal midscreen/corner combos for Raoh? and what's the best way to combo off of j.HS?

Edited by DrKillenger

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Wish I could help you here but my Raoh is generally terrible. The only things I really do with jHS is jHS (land), jS, jHS (land) sjS, jHS. Sometimes I run when I land to push them into the corner and the RC an Edguy for untech time to the combo.

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Yeah I mean it's not like you need to get crazy technical with Raoh considering he just craps damage for free, but I'm sure I can squeeze more damage out of those 15 seconds of crackhead strength if I really tried (not that I really NEED to, I mean, 90% of the time I play against a Chipp anyways)

Well then, I guess I'll just screw around in the lab then, and post up what I can figure out

EDIT:

okay, so the combo I posted before (j.HS>land>jump>j.S>j.HS>j.236S>airdash>j.K>j.D>214S) comes out to about 249 dmg

in the corner you can omit the airdash>j.K>j.D part which makes it WAY easier to do and it comes out to 224 dmg

In the corner you can just go straight from j.HS into 6HS>236S~K loops, I was able to get about 400 dmg that way

midscreen on the ground you can c.S>2HS>236S~HS>j.S>j.HS>214S for 275 dmg

scratch that, c.S>2HS>236S~K*>dash>2HS>236S>6HS does 300

*delay the ~K slightly and it should pop them back up before they hit the ground, which is what gives you time to do the dash>2HS afterwards

I practiced all this on Eddie btw, I forgot that the training mode gives different dmg values based on the dummy's health when I was doing all this

Edited by DrKillenger

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If you've got tension and you're midscreen and land a hit, just edguy RC dash edguy RC dash edguy/corner loop. This will put them into the corner anywhere, even the opposite corner. If you get deep enough into the corner you can even chain 2 edguys together without RCing.

That combo looks pretty decent for pushing them into the corner. Remember that 6HS launches them away too so that's a useful tool as well. Most people can get hit easily during groundslide, even with air hits (j.S or j.HS should connect on just about everyone except the very small characters). In fact this hit effect opens up a lot of combo opportunities against certain characters like faust, potemkin, and dizzy who have huge groundslide hitboxes. You can usually link anything into an Edguy or Darkness Anthem, and then follow up with an air combo that sets up perfectly for a land->2HS->6HS combo loop.

Raou is pretty easy to use once you figure out what goes into what. Also, don't underestimate the power of 6P/5K in landing hits, people get scared and try to counter Raou but Raou is only active when you use one of his attacks. So you can do a lot of fake outs and be very aggressive. Don't forget throw mindgames too.

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Don't forget throw mindgames too.

This. Throwing with Raoh is huge because people expect you to attack with your new found power so they'll tend to block.

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Thats because Raoh is so damn terrifying to most people (rightfully so) he just demands respect, even from the mashiest of players, but can you get any extra damage off Zappa's grab? Maybe just a Bellows or something?

Mixups with Raoh in general are just silly, most of the time 2K and 6P might as well be invisible because they're usually watching the big glowing death god instead of Zappa, and I dont even need to mention how stupid fast Zappas dust is

EDIT: Okay so I fiddled around with that midscreen combo a little more and got this:

c.S>2HS>236S~HS>66>2HS>236S>j.S>dj.S>dj.D>Edguy

Anyone know any good Dust combos for Zappa with Raoh? his regular dust and it's combos suck because he has like, NO options in the air, but Raoh's dust is awesome,so far I've been able to do:

5D>j.S>j.HS>j.236S>66>j.S>j.HS>Edguy but that's about it

EDIT #2:

After figuring out that Dust combo, I changed that j.HS starter combo's ender from 66>j.K>j.D>Edguy to 66>j.S>j.HS>Edguy and it does a bit more damage now too (feels more consistent as well)

Edited by DrKillenger

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Alright so, after thoroughly studying Chonari's matches, I started writing a list on everything interesting I found so far. I'll separate them into a combo section and a setup (blockstring, oki etc) section.

Model:

CH= Counter Hit

AA= Anti-air

CO= crouching hitconfirm

(text)= Not required/suggestion

Combo:

Naked


  • jP>jS>2K>2D>dash 236P
  • Airdash jP>jS>jD>dash 236P
  • 214D>236P RC>dash 2H>jS>jK>jS>djS>jD



Dog


    Midscreen: Dog close to Zappa
  • 8D AA>jP>jS>djP>jS>8D
  • 5P>2K>2S>2D>(6D to sandwich)
  • 2K>2S>5D>dash 2P>2K>6P>6D>(6D to sandwich or 4DD for unblockable reset)
  • 4DD>2K unblockable>cS>2S>632146H>dash 236P RC>2H>jS>jK>jS>djS>jD

    Midscreen: Sandwich with the dog and Zappa
  • 4DD>dash 2P>2K>cS>2S>2D>(6D to sandwich once more after knockdown) Omits 2P if you're close enough for an unblockable with 2K>6P
  • (dog near corner) fS>6D>dash 5P>4DD>dash 5P>2K>cS>fS>5D>dash 5P>2K>cS>2S>(2D) Chonari did 4DD but it whiffed. I guess 2D should have been the best choice here.
  • 4DD>2K unblockable>4DD>(5P>cS>2H>2K>4DD>2K>4DD) xN Pretty cool loop midscreen. You can transform it into an unblockable reset if you delay 4DD a bit. Allow in the end to corner carry and still sandwich in the corner. My favourite combo by far.
  • 2K>5D> dash 5P>2K>2D>632146H

    Corner: Dog close to Zappa
  • 5D CO>2K>5D>dash cS>2H>5P>2K>5D>dash cS>2H>5P>6D>dash 5P>4DD>5P>2K>cS
  • fS>5D>dash>5P>2K>cS>2D Chonari's main combo ender in the corner. He prefers to always get knockdown to keep pressuring.
  • 2P CO>2K>2S>5D>dash 2K>5D>dash cS>2H>2P>2K>(6D>8D) 6D>8D allows to position the dog before the opponent for more pressure
  • 4DD CO>2K unblockable>4DD>dash 5P>cS>2H>2P>2K>6D>(4DD>dash 2K) Unblockable reset evewyday, all day
  • After 4DD follow-up>2K unblockable>cS>2S>5D>dash 2K>cS>fS>(6D>fS (ground)>4DD) Another unblockable reset. Chonari y u so cool.
  • fS (ground)>4DD unblockable>632146H(4)>dash 236P 5 orbs from an unblockable. Not bad.
  • 2K>6D>5P>4DD>2P>2K>cS>fS>(6D>4DD>2K) Easy unblockable reset.
  • 2K>5D>5P>2K>cS>6P>5D>IAD>8D(whiff)>jPx5 I think we can add some ways to get a knockdown here.
  • (4DD CO>2K>cS>2H>2P>2K>6D>5P) xN Really cool loop in the corner
  • 2K>5D>5P>2K>6P>jump>6D>8D(whiff)>jP>jS>5P>cS (dog still in recovery so we should probably do 5P>2K>6P>2K>cS>2D as an ender)



Sword

    Midscreen:

  • cS AA>2H(2)>6H>63214H
  • 5P>2K>cS>fS>2S>5H(2)>63214H
  • 2H(2) AA>6H>63214H
  • 2K>6P>2K>cS>2S>2H(2)>6H>63214H
  • 236S FRC>fS>2S>2H(2)>jS>jH FRC>jS>jH>(6H overhead reset)

    Corner:
  • 2S>2H>jS>jH FRC>jS>jH>2S>5H(2)>63214H

    Chonari only uses 63214H FRC in blockstrings in order to frame trap and almost never in combo in order to make sure the opponent won't be too high to tech I guess.


Ghost
  • 2K>2S>fS>5H>236D (3)
  • 2P>2K>cS>fS>5H>5H>236D (3)
  • 2P>2K>fS>2H>dash 236K
  • 5P>2K>cS>2D>236P Ghost toss oki
  • 5P AA>cS>6S>6S>6S>236D Character specific. Max amount of ghost tossed is probably 2 I guess.


Model:
Text: Blockstring
Text: Offense/pressure/okizeme related
Text: Neutral/Other related

Setup:



Naked


  • dash 5P tick throw
  • dash 236P Fails most of the time though. Risks are too high compared to the reward IMO.
  • Antiair: backdash> fS
  • fS (ground)>5P>2K>frame trap2H>2P>2K>fS (ground) Tricky to use but quite good as a blockstring. Careful to not get DPed between the 2K and the 2H

  • Dog

    [*]dash jump>6D>jP Dog controls the ground while Zappa covers the air.

    [*]4D6D>dash 2P Same as above with the position reversed.

    [*]2P>2K>cS>6P>fS What Chonari does as a blockstring if the dog is too far and he needs to make it get closer with 6D. If the dog is close enough after this, 5D resets pressure.

    6D after 236P to sandwich

    Sandwich:

    [*]5P>2K>5D>dash>5P>2K>5D x N to fish for hitconfirm I guess. Pushes slightly the opponent to the dog everytime you do that though so you won't sandwich long.

    [*]2P>2K>2H>2P>2K>6D>4DD>2K unblockable.

    Corner:

    [*]6D>4DD>dash 2K unblockable.

    [*]If dog is in extra recovery because of a followup, dash 5P>5P>2K will make him recover in time to keep pressuring with 5D.

    [*](5D> dash 2P>2K>2S) XN as a blockstring against FD block.

      Sword

      [*]Favourite meaty attacks: jS, 2K, 6P, 2S

      [*](After 63214K grounded opponent) 236S to get closer/reposition the sword. If the opponent forward tech, they end up behind Zappa. Backdashing seems to save the day if it happens.

      [*]5P>2K>cS>jS Favourite instant overhead jS blockstring.

      [*](sword max range) 2H>2S>2H>2S>... Sets the sword in a position that seems annoying for close ranged characters to deal with. They can do high jump>airdash to avoid it though. Might be good sometimes to fish for random hits I guess.

      [*]IAD backward>jH Allow to GTFO and position the sword nicely

      [*]236S(blocked)>jS Really unreliable in the midscreen. Much better in the corner. Make sure to use it against people who respect you after 236S.

      [*](Sword high enough to hit both standing and jumping character) 63214H xN Hits fullscreen away.

        Ghost

        [*](Against cursed opponent) 5P xN If the opponent blocks an item meanwhile, dash and 5P once more until you get a hitconfirm.

          Notes:

          -You're free to use quote and use this post as a model. Will buy you time if you need to order various datas related to Zappa.

          -I'm seriously lacking in terms of data for:

          Raoh: His setups, blockstrings and combos. From Chonari at least.

          The dog: In the very specific situation where Zappa and the dog sandwich the opponent in the corner. Got no combos or setups on it. I'm certain we can do some sort of unblockable by abusing 5D and 2D. Sadly, everytime Chonari managed to get this situation, the opponent managed to GTFO before he could do anything.

          Please, do not hesitate sharing if you stumble upon a video with a top player getting in those situations.

          -I only did Chonari so far. I know that the next one I need to analyze/sharingan is Eki-chan. Also heard that Mitsurugi was pretty good. Is there another Zappa player worth mentioning ?

          -And thanks Phrekwenci and Oiboi. Both of your posts helped me a lot with AC Zappa in the past.

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Okay, so I managed to improve on that Raoh combo again, now it does even MOAR damages:

c.S>[2HS>236S~K>66]xN>6HS

does craptons of damage (duh), and pushes them right into the corner (takes 3 reps of the DA loop to go from corner to corner) and you can end it with 6HS for the ground slide

EDIT:

Now that I've messed around with that loop some more, it seems to be character specific, so far it seems to work on everyone, but the timing seems a little different based on how heavy they are and how big their hurtbox is, also it seems it's easier to do the loop with 236~HS on floatier characters like Bridget from what I've tried so far

Edited by DrKillenger

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Anyone know any good Dust combos for Zappa with Raoh? his regular dust and it's combos suck because he has like, NO options in the air, but Raoh's dust is awesome,so far I've been able to do:

I don't combo in the air with Zappa's dust whether it is for Raoh or Zappa. 5D>jD impossible dust is just godlike.

Anyway, here are some easy dust combos for Raoh:

  • 5D>jD impossible dust>66>jS>jH>66>214S>214S
    Corner carry from the middle of the stage and gives you oki. Deals around 50% damage on Sol. You can use meter to do the 6H loop or the last edguy loop afterwards

  • 5D>jD impossible dust>66>jS>jH>j236S>214S
    What I do if I can't corner carry for some reason.

  • 5D>jD impossible dust>6H>236S(2)~K>6H>236S~K>dash 2S>214S
    Corner only. Deals huge damage (322 on Sol so 70% damage) without using any tension. You can use 5D>214S to impossible dust for more damage but it's really tricky and probably character specific.

You can impossible dust with jD, jH and 214S. jH looks like it's character specific though. 214S is a bit tough to follow up unless you have tension. jD always works and deal 1 less damage than jH for the same GB- so always go for jD if possible.

About midscreen damage, while I do agree that people tend to be desperate, I also noticed the amount of DPs they tend to throw out increase significantly ! That's why when I want to get in, I usually go with 6P or 2K first and check if I get a hitconfirm.

While cS indeed lead to a ton of damage, you have to keep in mind that cS>6H whiff on some crouching characters like Sol. That and its range with how easy it might lose to DP because of the hurtbox makes it one of the main reason why I never use that move.

THERE IS however another way to get good damage midscreen:

Stuff>2D>236S~K will pretty much always work thanks to OTG hit.

Midscreen you can do Stuff>2D>236S~K>jS>jH>combo for good corner carry.

In the corner, just do Stuff>2D>236S~K>6H loop.

Allow you to get easy hitconfirm and start your pressure by 6P for example in order to avoid a lot of things in neutral or some DP.

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Okay, so I managed to improve on that Raoh combo again, now it does even MOAR damages:

c.S>[2HS>236S~K>66]xN>6HS

does craptons of damage (duh), and pushes them right into the corner (takes 3 reps of the DA loop to go from corner to corner) and you can end it with 6HS for the ground slide

He has 90~95% life damage (Meterless) from ID setup I use from time to time. But not that necessary since the damage from basic ones should kill them for the most part.... works on everyone but needs to shorten for heavy characters like Johnny etc:

Dust > FD > Dust >land > 6HS > D.Anthem ~ K > dash > 6HS > D.Anthem ~ k > 6HS > D.anthem ~ k > dash >close 5S>L.E.G.

You can add another RC after L.E.G > close. 5S > L.E.G. for the extra damage but I'd rather save it for super. Better damage actually even on block at that point.

Also if going to use super at any situation for that extra little chip I recommend hitblock confirm with D.Anthem since it's +7 on block and prevents reversals such as Warrant with Testament... If hit with warrant and the player is good It can be very ugly really quickly.

Edited by KBnova

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stuff

yeah I tried getting an ID going on with Edguy, but it shot them so far up into the air it was almost impossible to convert into a combo, I didn't think about using j.D though. And I agree on c.S>6HS it's a useful chain in the corner to start loops but midscreen I'd much rather go c.S>2HS, gives much better options for followups

You can add another RC after L.E.G > close. 5S > L.E.G. for the extra damage but I'd rather save it for super. Better damage actually even on block at that point.

Also if going to use super at any situation for that extra little chip I recommend hitblock confirm with D.Anthem since it's +7 on block and prevents reversals such as Warrant with Testament... If hit with warrant and the player is good It can be very ugly really quickly.

Yeah, most of the time when I use Malice Bellows it isn't even for damage, it's to either crank up their guard gauge, or force them to blow a ton of their meter on FD to avoid the chip damage, and that's all assuming I haven't already blown most of my meter on Sword/Ghost FRC's before I even GOT to Raoh

And you don't need to tell me how dangerous Warrant can be, I main Zappa but I sub Testa and Faust pretty hardcore, it's actually pretty depressing that out of the three the only one in Xrd is Faust lol

Edited by DrKillenger

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yeah I tried getting an ID going on with Edguy, but it shot them so far up into the air it was almost impossible to convert into a combo, I didn't think about using j.D though. And I agree on c.S>6HS it's a useful chain in the corner to start loops but midscreen I'd much rather go c.S>2HS, gives much better options for followups

Yeah, most of the time when I use Malice Bellows it isn't even for damage, it's to either crank up their guard gauge, or force them to blow a ton of their meter on FD to avoid the chip damage, and that's all assuming I haven't already blown most of my meter on Sword/Ghost FRC's before I even GOT to Raoh

And you don't need to tell me how dangerous Warrant can be, I main Zappa but I sub Testa and Faust pretty hardcore, it's actually pretty depressing that out of the three the only one in Xrd is Faust lol

Lets keep hoping :)

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jD is the go to attack for impossible dust combos since it exists in every summon (except Dog of course, but you can't dust with the dog anyway).

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What do you usually guys do when dealing with people constantly in the air ?

I don't really have troubles dealing with people in the air with the dog and the ghosts but it's not the case with the sword or naked.

I don't know if it's because of the new changes but anti-airing with sword 2H doesn't seem as great as before. Most of the time it whiffs in situations that wouldn't have happened in AC+ thus I end up using 623H FRC more instead and it seems that 623H completely whiffs if the sword is too far. Might be quite subjective though.

When naked, I tend to either backdash whenever I can but considering it doesn't alter the opponent's pace that much and make me closer to the corner, it's not a strategy that is that great it seems. I also use 6P much more now which works great if done with the proper timing and isn't really dangerous on whiff if the opponent double jump to bait an anti-air. It still loses really badly against Johnny or Slayer's jH for example.

Tried to also go for jP airtoair or simply air throw but I get poked quite often in the air while doing that. I guess that it's something that should probably be used for mind games or to make the opponent unable to leave the corner ?

I also use 6S with the ghost much more now. That hitbox is just amazing. Doing something like fS constantly in neutral and whiff cancel it if I notice the opponent jumping works quite well. It also helps much more than against people who uses high/super jumps in order to avoid 236D/Ghost H toss. What do you guys think about it ?

Edited by Magaki

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Anti-air with the sword is very situational now, not even the sword uppercut will save you since it's only active for so long and if it's trying to come back to Zappa, it'll be active during its return, when you need the active frames near Zappa. Really, the only answers I tend to go with is to throw them out of the air (if you have good reaction time) or 6P, which was really designed to be Zappa's anti-air go-to tool. Upper body invincibility, hits low, jump-cancelable, and combos into just about anything.

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The lack of a really solid anti-air is the one big hole in Zappa's game, and as such you need to really be scouting for when you think your opponent might make themselves airborne since they'll be looking to take advantage of it. Air throws are a solid option if you get the read or if they're really close, but since Zappa's j. H hitbox is behind him, his j. H/air throw option select is pretty bad, and pretty much guarantees you're going to get counter-hit out of your j. H if they have air options left. I recently started making a concerted effort to try to meet them in the air with j. P(on hit goes into j. S, dj j. S j. D naked) rather than just going for air throws and it's been really helpful. j. P is only 6 frames and has a pretty good hit box on it, and if you're thinking air to air and they're thinking air to ground, they're probably going to be going for a slower button anyway. With a summon, j. P chains on block, so if they block the air to air j. P, you can just keep mashing it until you both hit the ground again and you can start running mix-up.

With ghosts, 236H (optional FRC) on reaction is strong since half the time you end up hitting them, but even if they block they plop back down to the ground into ghost pressure and you're able to do it from far enough away that you're not risking getting hit by big air normals. If you get a really good read, or your opponent jumps and exhausts their air options, anti-air 2H, especially on counter hit is usually lights out. CH 2H, dash cancel, 2H, JC, j. P, j. S, dj j. S, j. D will stun most of the cast in one combo and you can just run up IK when you land. It's the only thing he has with a vertical-ish hitbox, and the reverse gatling properties make it less of a commitment if they FD it in the air. This is especially strong in the Eddie matchup because of how flight mode hinders their ability to block.

236P can also be used as an 'Oh shit' anti-air.

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What do you usually guys do when dealing with people constantly in the air ?

I don't really have troubles dealing with people in the air with the dog and the ghosts but it's not the case with the sword or naked.

I don't know if it's because of the new changes but anti-airing with sword 2H doesn't seem as great as before. Most of the time it whiffs in situations that wouldn't have happened in AC+ thus I end up using 623H FRC more instead and it seems that 623H completely whiffs if the sword is too far. Might be quite subjective though.

When naked, I tend to either backdash whenever I can but considering it doesn't alter the opponent's pace that much and make me closer to the corner, it's not a strategy that is that great it seems. I also use 6P much more now which works great if done with the proper timing and isn't really dangerous on whiff if the opponent double jump to bait an anti-air. It still loses really badly against Johnny or Slayer's jH for example.

Tried to also go for jP airtoair or simply air throw but I get poked quite often in the air while doing that. I guess that it's something that should probably be used for mind games or to make the opponent unable to leave the corner ?

I also use 6S with the ghost much more now. That hitbox is just amazing. Doing something like fS constantly in neutral and whiff cancel it if I notice the opponent jumping works quite well. It also helps much more than against people who uses high/super jumps in order to avoid 236D/Ghost H toss. What do you guys think about it ?

Anti-air with the sword is very situational now, not even the sword uppercut will save you since it's only active for so long and if it's trying to come back to Zappa, it'll be active during its return, when you need the active frames near Zappa. Really, the only answers I tend to go with is to throw them out of the air (if you have good reaction time) or 6P, which was really designed to be Zappa's anti-air go-to tool. Upper body invincibility, hits low, jump-cancelable, and combos into just about anything.

I agree, his options for handling spazzy jumping is to just air throw since his range is quite nice. As mentioned his 6p is very good against characters with great jumps in such as Order Sol j.HS since It will whiff through completely. Not against all air normals but majority of the annoying ones.

One thing I try to do If people are IAD too much is to dash underneath them since he is very low profile and can also get you out of bad corner situations and reset your spacing since he has strong neutral game with any summon.

Edited by KBnova

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By the way, did you guys notice that the ghosts have a new attack? 6S with the ghosts does a move that looks sorta like 5HS but it's closer to zappa and upwards a bit. I haven't experimented with it much yet, it's sorta slow so I have no idea how useful it would be as an anti air, but it doesn't look like it has much use other than that. Maybe it can be cancelled into 2HS for a higher explosion? I know most of the S ghost pokes can be cancelled even before active frames into 2HS to adjust the positioning of it. The weird thing is that I never heard about this move at all and discovered it totally on accident. Never even seen it in vids.

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It's used a lot by Chonari as combo filler against airborne opponents. Seems he prefers to do 6S>(6S)>(6S)>236D instead of jP xN>djP xN>jD air combos. Listed one of the combo he used here.

First 6S by itself isn't that great though IMO. Found one application so far. When I try to poke with fS, if I notice the opponent jumping on me, I do 6S whiff cancel right away which usually catch them in the air and covers a lot of area.

If the opponent blocks, I just keep pressing 6S and do 236S in the end to make sure that the opponent will block until they land.

Third 6S covers an amazing area though like you can see here:

1656292_1547559385469189_342095404_n.jpg

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