[CP] Noel Vermillion - Q&A Thread

[dualseeker]

You have like, 5 viable options for ending your drive pressure. One, you can use Bloom Trigger to end it, and it's probably one of the most safest options you can use. Like you said, if they instant block both hits, they can most likely punish you for it, but unless you rapid the move, there's not much you can do about it. A tip for making the Bloom Trigger at the end safer though is to try to push your opponent as far back as possible while you're using drive (d.5B>d.5C multiple times), and then using Bloom Trigger. That way your opponent should be far enough that they can't punish you.

Your second option is to use, like you said, Chamber Shot, but I rarely use this; Bloom Trigger gives you more knock back on block and has a higher chance of letting you get out of drive safely. Use Chamber Shot only if you know your opponent isn't really looking to punish you after your drive string.

Your third option is Assault Through. This is useful if you know you're opponent isn't really expecting to switch sides while blocking. While it's not completely safe on block, I think it's one of your more safer options; it's easier to reset your pressure from Assault Through if your opponent isn't doing a good job blocking. Just be careful, though, because if it gets instant blocked, you're likely going to get punished.

Your fourth option, while a bit risky, is Muzzle Flitter (214A). While it's really risky, since if you whiff it your opponent can have a free punish on you if they react correctly, it can net you some really big damage with how it does 1.5k unscaled every time. Try using it if you know your opponent is expecting you to use an overhead.

Your 5th option is to literally just stop your Drive without using a drive ender or special move. Sometimes, the best thing to do when your opponent is blocking your drive is to just stop it all together without really doing anything. You can just let Noel reload and do something else; get some space between you and your opponent, or keep going with regular pressure.

All of these options are pretty good to keep in your head when your opponent is blocking. As a rule though, it's usually always safest to end with either Bloom Trigger or Assault Through. They both give pretty good blockstun to the opponent and they usually are not punished. Just remember to use your head and adapt to your situation accordingly.

[Litherain-XIII]

That's all you can do to attempt to make it safe as possible. Bloom trigger, Chamber Shot, and Assault Through are all unsafe on Instant block regardless so its basically pick your poison at that point lol. the only safe option is to rapid cancel which ever option you go for otherwise you'll get hit. to clarity dualseekers suggestions muzzle flitter isnt a "safe" option but rather just a mix up option and is the unsafest option. d.5B >d.5C > BT isnt as safe either it can still be punished the same way also if you end with d.5B >BT your opponent can actually punish noel freely with a 12 frame startup move or faster before BT even comes out so i wouldnt recommend it at all honestly. the only reason it may work is because your opponent was trying to barrier guard you the entire time that increased the pushback on block making it unintentionally safer.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Litherain-XIII

[crimsonstardust]

When Noel is pressuring with normals, is there a reason why some players prefer using 5A over 2A? I under stand that 5A starts up a frame faster but it look like that 2A has better frame advantage and range, is there something I'm missing here?

[LunaKage]

that's pretty much it man. that single frame makes it a good choice when pressuring up close, or when throwing out just out of range for baiting a poke out attempt.

[Litherain-XIII]

Ill attempt to explain. 2A does have a better range and frame advantage however it isn't as good in pressure as much as it use to be in EX and in CP now using it in pressure is a bit undesirable as its recovery somewhat gets in the way to capitalize on its use in pressure since now it has a bit of pushback on block making its usual follow up 5A harder to close the gap to punish mashing in a sense of frame trapping the opponent. a simple mistake of execution can easily get you hit out of attempt of something like 5A > 5A > 2A > slight pause into micro dash 5A. this was alot more viable in EX since 2A was +1 and at the same time EX defense pushback wasn't as big as it is in CP where now you can do almost 3 hits in general and your character is almost out of range to have more optimal options for pressure and legit frame traps. Wat use to be safe is now either gonna trade or you may get hit out of it now due to the lack of frame advantage it use to have or it just puts you out of range to reset your pressure with 5A to cover your tracks as a frame trap. 2A has less options than 5A to go into for pressure after its block and somewhat forces you to committing to either a string into mix up, a long string into 2C but puts you out of range to be able to get back in for more pressure, or to make the pressure shorter and end into 2C for +1 and attempt to use either 5A or 2A to reset pressure based on the range you're in from that point but depending on how far you are from the opponent after 2C your 2A will get a trade rather than a clean CH. noels best follow option at the end of pressure strings to reset it is pretty much 5A not 2A since it has the frames to CH the opponent for mashing a button other than a dp. there are certain instances where 2A can be used to reset pressure but its not as good as 5A. some pressure strings still work but others are now iffy and requires you to execute it alot faster to prevent it from trading with your opponent. For example you can try 5A > 2A > 5A. this will work and will CH your opponent given they hit a button between the 2A and the next 5A but say you wanna micro dash the next 5A to keep your range in place instead of putting yourself out of range by standing in the same place doing the 2nd 5A your chances of getting a trade or getting CH out of it are now a bit more prominent in CP than it use to be in EX. now add in something like 5A > 5A > 2A > 5A you're most likely are gonna trade or get mashed out when you try to reset with 5A and 2A is a even more guarantee of this to happen. overall her pressure in CP is not as good as it use to be in EX or other iterations of bb because of the reduced frame advantage and the defensive pushback on block in CP also passively nerfed noels ability to pressure and frame trap ppl effectively as she use to in the past.

[LunaKage]

I'd like to point out that 2A is STILL better in pressure than 5A, since 2A is -1 instead of -3 like 5A.

[crimsonstardust]

That's what I kind of figured after I tried using 5A to pressure instead when I played Noel in casuals with a local today. I dunno I might of not of been spacing my pressure out correctly cause I didn't really feel like I was pressuring as hard when I stagger 2As when I tried to do something similar with 5A.

[Hawkk]

Hi Noel guys;

I haven't touched this series since the start of CS (before Makoto came out) and I've been looking for a character to play, and a friend pointed me to Noel. I only had two criteria - and that was they had to have relatively high damage and the ability to be played really patiently (I'm coming from Tager, I really don't like how dishonest the character is). She looks pretty cool in the match videos I see, I'm wondering if Noel does fit what I'm looking for, and if so is there a beginner's guide to her anywhere around here?

[Litherain-XIII]

well to be honest hakumen and kagura (i think) meet those 2 criteria more so than noel. other characters can too but hakumen was initially build to be that way in bb. sure noel can sometimes hit some high damage but she isnt a character who is suppose to be playing patiently if she isnt forced to. she kinda wants to get in fast and kill you before letting the opponent change the pace of the match to their favor its not her forte sort of speak unless she is forced to play that way like against the tao match-up. i dont recall a CP guide for noel on how to play her i guess because everyone believes she is autopilot easy to play.

[WintySoSolo]

this character isn't autopilot she's like fucking impossible, how do I remember all this crap like I'm trying but I can't do it.

if you want to sit there and wait for BIG CHANCE to do HUGE DAMAGE then play kagura, hakumen, or maybe even bullet if you like bad characters.

[Litherain-XIII]

Try saying that to the rest of the community and see how they'll agree....if ever.

[The Martian]

Noel gets no respect probably because people are so adamant in believing that she's just easy mode, when that's the farthest thing from the truth. I can see it more in CS, but that's long gone in CP.

On a different note, should I be counter-poking with j.C? It was all I could do yesterday against this Valk I was fighting, and he still bodied me. Lol.

[The Martian]

So I'm practicing this:

4D > d.2D > d.6B > d.5C > d.5B(Delay depending on character) > 236A > 665B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 6D > 236D

I'm having trouble doing the dash in 665B. It either doesn't come out at all, or when I do dash her 6B comes out instead. Anyone have any tips?

[WintySoSolo]

dashes are hard.

Noel has no 4B. Inputting 4B will result in 5B. Old simple trick.

Beyond that, timing.

[The Martian]

dashes are hard.

Noel has no 4B. Inputting 4B will result in 5B. Old simple trick.

Beyond that, timing.

Huh, I never noticed that. I'm getting a lot more consistent results with that, so thanks.

Are there certain requirements for pulling off the second half of Noel's distortion besides hitting the opponent with the cannon?

[mMarikom]

For the final hit of Fenrir to go off you have to hit with the actual gun rather than just the bullets.

[Capconian]

I have 2 questions:

I've been trying to decipher the "new" use for 2D, is it just for combo extensions and chicken block prevention in the corner?

The use of revolver blast. Afaik its for setting the opponent in the corner or hitting them from way high where the j.2D can't be comboed into. Am I missing something?

[legacy49i]

2D will also pull opponents down out of the air. Since using 2D as a Drive starter has a MUCH higher arc, you can use it to catch a jumping opponent.

Revolver Blast usage hasn't changed since CT. It's just an aerial finisher. Except now you can follow-up with j.2C to ground the opponent, which is much more favorable.

[LunaKage]

2D when used sparingly can:

Punish a projectile from a certain range

Catch people jumping at neutral

Catch people jumping during pressure

Close thr gap on a barrier blocking opponent during pressure

Cross up (still possible, just gotta space it perfect)

[legacy49i]

Cross up (still possible, just gotta space it perfect)

It's good for crossing up mid-combo. After a j.D, 2D will let you switch places so you can move them towards the corner.

[LunaKage]

that's d.2D my man. we were talking about standard 2D.

[TopTierTaite]

Hey guys, I'm trying to learn BBCP and I've decided to pick up Noel.

1. What should Noel do in the neutral game?

2. What should I be doing to start my offense?

3. When I go against a match such as Kokonoe, Mu-12, Nu-13, Rachel, etc., what should I be doing to try to get in? Esp. in the Mu-12 match-up.

4. When I have to go on the defense, what are her best options?

5. What are some of her main bread and butters? I checked the Wiki, but it's not there.

Thanks in advance!

[Adsfzxczxc]

1. In her neutral game, j.C and 5b are your best friend. However, try not to do a lot of j.C jump-ins, since it does have an extended hurt box, and can get anti-aired easily. Optic barrel A/B (236A/B) are also fairly useful at long range, especially since there's no travel time, its very useful against zoners. They do have fairly long recovery, and are very dangerous if you miss, especially Optic barrel A, so use them sparingly. Your anti-air options are fairly weak as Noel, as 6a has a very long recovery, especially if it misses, and the hit box isn't great. You're better off using j.A and sometimes 4D as anti-airs, however, they do need to be used preemptively. j.A is generally better, as 4D does not actually have head invulnerability, but the hitbox on it is pretty good, so you can catch people before their attack hit box comes out. You can use drive in normal as well, mainly 4D, 2D and j.D, but I would't really recommend it, especially if you are not sure it will hit. 2D can be used sparingly to catch people jumping, and covers a large distance, so it can be useful at times. Overall, space with 5B and j.C, try to out maneuver them with your fairly fast dash, until you land a hit or force them to block, so you can start your mixup.

2. Noel's mixup is not the strongest, and isn't super safe, however, she does have pretty good pressure. A simple dashing 2A or 2B is an effective way to start her pressure game, as they gatling to a variety of different normals, like her overhead 6B and her 2 hit low, 2C. The entire gatling table is in the frame data section of her wiki. As well, 5/2A can be chained into itself 3 times, and 2B can be chained into itself twice. 2A and 2B are fairly safe on block, being -1 and +/-0 respectively. Therefore you can frametrap and do stagger pressure very easily with them due to the self chaining, as well as tick throws. Pay attention to if they barrier guard, as the pushback from it is very strong in this game, and can force you to end pressure early if not done correctly. You can also go into drive for mixup. Her d.6B is a 16 frame overhead, while her low 6D is 24 frames, but contains invincibility. A common drive string is 5D>d.5A>d.6D/d.6B for the high low mixup. A very strong mixup from drive involves Rapid Canceling a drive into a normal, such as d.6D>RC>2B or Assault Through>RC>2B. The opponent won't normally expect this as a double low from drive is impossible without 50 heat, and also the fact that her d.6B is much faster than her low makes them more likely to block high after a d.6D. Another thing to note is that her j.C and j.D are not overheads so when going for jumping mixups, use j.B. Her best pressure ender is 2C, as it is +1 on normal block. As for drive enders, try to use Bloom Trigger (236D) or Assault Through (214D) to end pressure. Assault Through is -4 on normal block, so it is the safest ender, and it also crosses up, however it is slow, and you can get hit out of it after the invincibility ends. Bloom Trigger has massive push back, so it's generally safe, despite the fact that its -14 on block. Be careful though, as certain characters can Instant Block, then punish it.

3. Zoners are pretty difficult for Noel, as she doesn't have any surefire ways of getting in on an opponent. Dash barrier, Jump Barrier and smart use of Optic Barrel are your best options in these matchups. Especially against a Mu, you can get it in, but eat a DP to the face and be forced to run through her gauntlet again. As well, all of those characters have fairly good mixup and okizeme options which makes it even worse. For the Mu matchup, she zones using a combination of her long range normals and laser setups to keep you out. As such, trying to approach blindly through the air is a bad option, as she can just anti air you with her huge 2C or her fairly safe 6A, or her lasers/Totsuka Blade/Habakiri (laser special and bomb special). Her air to air options are also a hell of a lot better than yours with j.C and j.2C. Approaching from the ground is a better option, as her 5C does have an extended hurtbox before it comes out, making it eaiser for you to tag them out of. However, Mu can convert any block laser shots into a mixup opportunity, so be wary of that. The best time to approach is when she is setting down her lasers. They do have a delay from when they are placed to when they fire, and also, if she blocks anything, the laser will stop firing. Any lasers in progress though will still go though, and her Totsuka Blade will still hit you if it has already started. Therefore, you can Optic Barrel Mu when she's setting down the lasers to stop them from firing and hopefully create a knockdown, which will allow you to go in safely, except when Totsuka Blade is out. You can do the same thing with 2D, and hit them out of her Steins setup. If used at the right time, you can actually dodge her laser tracking as well. Again use this sparingly, as Mu can just easily anti air you out of it or just DP. Its probably best to learn some of the laser firing times, to try and figure out when its safer to go in. Try the best that you can to figure out when she places charged lasers as well, as she does a pause, longer than normal when setting a charged laser. Charged lasers can mess you up if you approach thinking that its safe, or bait you into blocking premptively, when its actually just a normal laser. However this isn't as needed, and so if you don't know the laser timings just dash barrier. While dashing, if you cancel into barrier guard, you will cancel out of the dashing recovery and block a lot quicker than normal, so its very useful to reactively guard against lasers. Be patient, and try to safely make your way in. Mu isn't like Nu in which Nu does have mixup at long ranges and can play an entire match by zoning you away from them. Mu will have to eventually approach to do damage to you, as her lasers don't exactly hit for a lot, so don't be too hasty in making your way in.

4. Block. All day every day. Make good use of Barrier block and Instant block to open up holes within an opponents blockstring and then jump out or poke out with her 5 frame 5A or 6 frame 2A. If you must use a reversal of some sort, use 4D. Her 4D has been nerfed so it will not invul through overheads now and it is also free to lows. It does have 26 frames of body and projectile invincibility which starts at frame 1, which is enough until her attack starts, but attacks with long active frames, or hit late will hit you out of 4D. Your opponent can't really bait 4D well, so its fairly safe, and you can just chain into drive for a hitconfirm or pressure. However, since you can be hit out of it easily, be careful of when you use it. 6D isn't good as a reversal, its invulnerability starts too late and 4D is better in every way. 2D is also another way to get out of pressure due to its frame 1 low invulnerability, however, as it most likely will not hit the opponent, it is fairly dangerous. Fenrir (632146D) works well as a metered reversal, as it has frame 1 super auto guard which lasts for 10 frames, meaning it can't thrown out of, or safe jumped (I think? kinda like Mu's DP right?) but regardless is a good reversal. However, the hit box isn't great, but it does do its job well. Counter Assault is also another strong option, although not as good as before, it does have good horizontal range, as it has her d.5B animation. She can also use her Astral, as it is a counter astral with frames 1-7 fully invulnerable, and it catches attacks from frames 8-55. It also looks bad ass, so much better than her old one IMO, though not as practical. Her back dash is okay, as it is pretty fast, but it doesn't cover a ton a range, so its not the greatest for getting out of stuff. The option is still there though.

5. Check out http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?17612-CP-Noel-Vermillion-Combo-Thread-%28Work-In-Progress%29 for her BnB's and combos in general.

[legacy49i]

OMG did you just say her new Astral is better than her old one??? I HATE her new Astral! When the NA release comes, I'm gonna get that NOL uniform DLC so fast your head will spin just so I can get her old one back!

[mMarikom]

^ I mean it's more useful in the sense that it has somewhat of an actual USE rather than being a fancy combo ender...