[CP] Noel Vermillion - Q&A Thread

[LunaKage]

what? no. you gotta wakeup and block if someone is throwing 2A on your wakeup.

[00Bubbles00]

Is that the only thing that can be done?

[Alpha152]

No it's not, but it's the smartest thing to do. You can try mashing super or 4D on wakeup, but that isn't going to teach you anything about defense.

[LunaKage]

4D isn't gonna beat any 2A though, unless there's actually a character that has a 2A without the F property.

as far as a reversal against 2A, super is the only option. Usually though, you just wanna block it.

[00Bubbles00]

ok thanks!

I had one more question. What causes AT to not cross-up? Some drive>d.5B>AT combos i've seen use AT to knock the opponent into the corner. I've played around with it a bit but Noel switches sides when I don't want, and hits the opponent away from the corner.

[LunaKage]

that happens when you are too close to the corner, usually you want to do these combos a few character lengths away from where the screen stops moving.

[legacy49i]

I need some good Drive hit confirms. If I land a Drive hit, a lot of times I don't know where to go, and usually just drop it or default to an early Spring Raid. I think my biggest problem is that d.6A floats now, and it really messes up my flow.

Also, FC 4D. Usually I go 4D - 2D to be safe, but then what? You can Spring Raid, then pick it up with 2A, but sometimes the Spring Raid whiffs and I can't figure out why. Any ideas?

[Alpha152]

To answer Bubbles question a little more thoroughly, what causes AT to not cross up is when it is too far where the attack will not cross up. AT always moves a set distance and when it is not far enough to cross up the opponent, it will stay on the same side.

As for drive hit confirms, it depends on how far you are into a drive string. If you get the mix up or hit on the first or second drive attack, you have plenty of options to confirm into a combo. For example 5D > d.6B (opponent gets hit) > d.5C > d.6A > d.5B > 236A > etc. To confirm into a full combo you need a minimum of 2 additional drive attacks, and the follow up is almost always d.6A > d.5B (the exception being a d.6D confirm where you should d.5C > d.5B instead). If you have less than 2 drive follow ups left, your options are limited to a RC combo (i.e. drive attack > SR > RC > 5C > etc) or BT/CS ender.

Hmm 4D combos were discussed somewhere already but I can't seem to find it. A few good routes for 4D are either 4D > d.2D > d.5C > d.5B and 4D > d.6A > d.5C > d.5B, CH state and air/ground does not affect the first combo but it does affect the 2nd one. Right now I'm thinking the 2nd option is better because the first 3 hits are gapless and if blocked, lets you switch into mix up.

[blackhybrid]

Probably a dumb question but besides rapid cancelling it, are there any combos that are possible when using Spring Raid, just kind of curious.

[Alpha152]

There are but they're either un-optimal or do the same amount of damage compared to an easier combo route.

[legacy49i]

Thanks Alpha!

Edit: Oh, and are those 4D combos character specific? It seems that sometimes 4D - 2D doesn't work on a jump-in. I think I saw it fail on Rachel multiple times. Not sure if it's that, or I'm just doing something odd.

@blackhybrid - if you use Spring Raid when the opponent is off the ground, you can do 2A - 6C - Stuff to pick it back up. As far as I can tell, an A hit is the only thing fast enough to do this without a RC. If the opponent is on the ground, no dice, unless there's something I don't know about.

Edited November 12, 2013 by legacy49i

[Alpha152]

No but 4D > d.2D becomes finnicky towards max distanace, same with 4D > d.6A > d.5C but with height.

And Legacy is your combo counter blue when you do your SR combos? I know outside of FC there's only very specific routes to get SR combos.

[legacy49i]

No blue beat. I'm always wary of blue beat. It may be Counter/Fatal Counter when it happens. I'm not 100%. I'll do some checking when I get home, and if I find something useful, I'll post a video or something.

Is anyone else here noticing difficulty in Silencer combos? A LOT of times I blue beat between 3C and 22C. Also, that new dash cancel is a bitch, and almost useless. Was there any reason to make it suck so bad? It was wonderful in CSEX! Also, back in CSEX, a late dash cancel would come out as a micro dash, and there were uses for it. I find that if you miss the dash cancel timing in CP, nothing happens, except you drop the combo. D:

[Litherain-XIII]

well to be honest the dash cancel made it extremely easy for noel to hit 3C at max ranges nearly all the time without ever droping them into 3 ~5k in EX. outside of nerfing it for that reason the fact that it helped contribute to the EX haida loop gives an incentive to nerf it to kill the loop off along with the SMP property on all our bullets. otherwise I don't see a realistic reason beyond those 2 ive mentioned

[00Bubbles00]

Seems like they increased the execution for the sake of increasing execution. The buffer window for inputting 22C after 3C is much smaller than in EX. After a day of practicing it... my findings are:

Input 22C as fast as possible at the moment the 3C gun fires. Input 66 as fast as possible after pressing C after 22. "22C66"

[legacy49i]

Alpha, so here's what I found:

Spring Raid - 2A works only 2 ways. Either FC, or a counter hit from a raw Spring Raid. That's where I kept seeing it. If you do a j.D and fall short of your opponent and it whiffs, then you land and go straight to Spring Raid while the opponent tries to hit you as you land, you get your counter hit, and then you can just run with it.

Well, it also works with OD, but that just goes without saying.

Oh, and can someone explain to me the significance of a "Same Move Combo"?

Edited November 13, 2013 by legacy49i

[legacy49i]

New question:

6B - 5D - d.5C - d.6C - d.4D - d.6C - Muzzle Flitter works on Jin. I've not seen it work on anyone else. Does anyone know specifically who all it works on, and also, why DOES it work on Jin?

It's really nice saving that 50 Heat from the RC, so I feel this info would be significant.

If no one has an answer, I may spend the night trying it against everyone and posting the answer myself.

[GreeniX]

Meterless Muzzle Flitter route: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?17612-CP-Noel-Vermillion-Combo-Thread-%28Work-In-Progress%29&p=1558578&viewfull=1#post1558578

Same move combo happens when you use specific moves in a combo more than once each. The system is in place so you need to use different moves in a combo instead of looping the same stuff all over again. It pretty much fucks your combo up unless you end immediately or shortly after the second use of the restricted move.

So, say, for Noel, if you use "[whatever] 22B 2B 6C 6B 22B" as a combo ender, you don't mind the game saying you used 22B twice, because your combo is done anyway, and the second 22B did its job of knocking down already.

[legacy49i]

Same move combo happens when you use specific moves in a combo more than once each. The system is in place so you need to use different moves in a combo instead of looping the same stuff all over again. It pretty much fucks your combo up unless you end immediately or shortly after the second use of the restricted move.

I understand that it means you've used the same move twice, but why does it matter? And it doesn't always do it, either. I'm pretty sure if you use the first hit of 6C twice in a combo, it won't flag it as a "Same Move Combo". What exactly happens when you trigger that notification?

I'm starting to think that maybe this was a way to address SMP loops. Do these still exist in CP? Maybe the "Same Move Combo" only applies to moves with SMP applied to them?

[GreeniX]

Oh, if you know SMP then it's pretty easy, since that's pretty much the new official name for the same mechanic. Now only a very limited amount of moves have SMP, but the effect is drastic and immediate. This includes 6C's second hit, which... was always the case, actually. Before, there wasn't an on-screen notification that a combo nullifying mechanic went into effect, and now there is. It's blue and very obvious because combos go to shit right then and there.

Edit: As for the specifics, activating SMP reduces the hitstun timer by a set amount. http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Damage_%28BBCP%29#Hitstun_Decay

Edited November 13, 2013 by GreeniX

[legacy49i]

Ok, so basically all they're doing is calling out SMP now. And you're right about fewer SMP moves. I think in CSEX, all of Noel's Drive moves had SMP, and I think I've only seen it on her starters and finishers in CP. I've been trying to find a way to build 10 SMP moves so I can loop, but can't seem to find enough moves in a single combo. If it CAN be done, I'll figure it out eventually...

[LunaKage]

That's pretty much impossible now due to the new way the combo system works. The longer the combo goes on, the more hit decay is added to the remaining moves. I've actually done a j.4D fatal combo that ended up being too long to connect a super afterward.

[legacy49i]

That's pretty much impossible now due to the new way the combo system works....

That's no bueno. I was pretty used to wallbouncing people 8 or 9 times into super.

[GreeniX]

I have two questions. First of all... are there generally known points on where you can tack on Noel's CT in combos to add to the overall combo damage? I guess corner grab into immediate CT adds a few hundred, but that's all I got. The most reliable way I found to land a CT is after a high hitting 6C, but those happen too late into combos to have a positive effect from my testing.

Second question. Anyone know if there's a way to sideswap back into the corner after landing a corner j4D (or whatever that follows it)? In Extend it was easy, because because d.6C comboed into AT, but now... all I can think of are ways that use ressources in some way.

- d.6A d.5B 236A route won't work, because Noel is backed into the wall.

- d.6B d.5C d.6C d.236D(1) RC 214A route works, and hurts like hell as always, but requires meter.

- FC 4D hit allows for d.6C 214A on stand. On crouch hit you can restand with d.4D on the characters that allow it... but then again all of this sounds more like combo video material more than pratical use.

- Overdrive SR allows a sideswap with a juper jump jC jD, but requires an OD activation beforehand. This goes well with the corner ender 6C(2) jump cancel OD into mixup.

[Alpha152]

High hitting 6C is a common point to CT, however actually using a CT is not advised because the damage:meter ratio is not worth it in almost all cases.

For j.4D just add extra hits before d.5B to push yourself out of the corner then the 236A > 5B will connect. An example would be like j.4D > d.5C > d.6A > d.5B > 236A > etc