[CP] Noel Vs. Azrael Matchup Discussion

[LunaKage]

Discussion About the Azrael matchup goes here. First post may be edited as important information arises.

[strawberry]

Yo whats up Noel forum I never post since I'm super scrubby and feel I can't contribute. I was gonna post this in the Q and A thread  but it seems that wouldn't be the place to put this. There aren't any posts here so I guess no one struggles with this match up like I do but its one of my personal worst ones, in fact I lost to two Azraels at SCR this year now how exactly do you deal with Azrael?

           Everything Azrael has just feels so safe except for the obvious Growler and Valiant, but my game plan has only been hoping Azrael does a gustaff full screen and me getting a 4D out of it. Baiting 3C with a double jump and punishing on the way down also, but that seems fundamental to air dashers. I know Delta pointed out there is also a cool little OS that beats his backdash and growler on wake up but loses to low mash. Aside from these things I don't know what else to do approaching him is definitely scary, what are your guys' gameplan?

 

[Ayane]

I guess I haven't fought many good ones. To me his pressure isn't scary. His neutral is pretty basic and 4D works on most of his moves.

 

I approach him pretty much the same way I do Ragna/Jin except Noel actually outranges him so you can throw out 5B/5C with out having to worry too much. A lot of times though I just let OB him and let him do his dash up to me so that I can start pressure on him.

 

 

Wish I had more to help with

[strawberry]

all good home boy in fact you did have me realize that both 5B and 5C are faster than his 5C his best poking tool I think, its like 15 frames So thank you lol

[Warhound]

Hey yo, Az player here. So I fought this guy and he ended up beating me (was kind of to send a message afterwards essentially taunting me so, y'know, he was a cool guy) and he kept beating me by throwing out, what I believe is Noel's 2D? I noticed he got out of retaliation a lot by chicken blocking and ended up right outside of my range in neutral, which is bad because at this point any 4D or in this case I suppose, a 2D beat anything I normally use in neutral.

 

I know 4D is vulnerable to lows, like Az's 3D or 3C, does the sane go for 2D? Would 6C be appropriate to throw out?

[GreeniX]

Noel 2D only has invulnerability to lows, and even then in most matchups this isn't really relevant because even if you make a low move whiff with 2D during pressure Noel is at a range where she will will fly over and look stupid because she is now whiffing drives. If the problem is 2D at a more neutral situation, well, it's basically a one-button instant airdash attack, so using your antiair will beat it clean and net a counter hit. I'm guessing your best bet is 2C or 6B. Overall treat Noel 2D as you would Ragna's grounded Bloodscythe: it's a telegraphed way of getting in with a direct counter if you were waiting for it.

 

As an aside, you mentioning 6C is pretty spot on, because it's an attack you can throw out to reset pressure or even get in at neutral which will beat any reactionary drive mash by Noel (but lose to mash 5a and the such). 4D is vulnerable to foot and head property attacks, meaning your lows and anything that puts you in the air can beat it. If Noel is relying too much on the D's, 6C might be good, just be careful not to use it in ways that are too obvious and would get you anti-aired at neutral.

[Warhound]

Okay, I rechecked the wiki, I apologize replace 2D with 6D. My bad.

 

Sorry to bother you guys, I tried to check the wiki but it doesn't tell me anything about her 6D...or really any of her drives.

[GreeniX]

The frame data for her drives lists during which frames the moves have invulnerability to what type of attack, second to last column. To know if your attack is Foot, Body or Head attribute, refer to your own frame data, it's listed just to the left of the move's startup.

 

6D has body invincibility, only not from frame 1. Compared to 4D (frame 1 body/projectile invul until after the first active frame) it pretty much doesn't hold any advantage as a tool to escape pressure except maybe the fact that it moves forward instead of backwards. At neutral I guess it's better at counterpoking Azrael's 5C and Gustaf for this reason, but it has to be done early enough. You will indeed cleanly beat 6D's 26f startup with 6C, as well as 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 3C, 3D or any jumping attack.

 

You may also consider simply backdashing back to neutral (really hard thing to call out as Noel at this range without a hard read), and if Noel decided to throws drives out watch her whiff some stuff and wait for the reload to go in (Gustaf is an option). If she ends with Bloom Trigger as the usual safe-ish ender I'm pretty sure Black Hawk Stinger is a punish on block at any range? Same for a blocked Chamber Shot (the shotgun thing).

 

Also yeah I don't really see this as a bother, don't worry. I enjoy making people know more about Noel and thus not get scrubbed out.

[Warhound]

The frame data for her drives lists during which frames the moves have invulnerability to what type of attack, second to last column. To know if your attack is Foot, Body or Head attribute, refer to your own frame data, it's listed just to the left of the move's startup.

 

6D has body invincibility, only not from frame 1. Compared to 4D (frame 1 body/projectile invul until after the first active frame) it pretty much doesn't hold any advantage as a tool to escape pressure except maybe the fact that it moves forward instead of backwards. At neutral I guess it's better at counterpoking Azrael's 5C and Gustaf for this reason, but it has to be done early enough. You will indeed cleanly beat 6D's 26f startup with 6C, as well as 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 3C, 3D or any jumping attack.

 

You may also consider simply backdashing back to neutral (really hard thing to call out as Noel at this range without a hard read), and if Noel decided to throws drives out watch her whiff some stuff and wait for the reload to go in (Gustaf is an option). If she ends with Bloom Trigger as the usual safe-ish ender I'm pretty sure Black Hawk Stinger is a punish on block at any range? Same for a blocked Chamber Shot (the shotgun thing).

 

Also yeah I don't really see this as a bother, don't worry. I enjoy making people know more about Noel and thus not get scrubbed out.

 

Jesus, I was using the only move that would NOT beat that goddamned thing lol fuck me.

 

I think the worst part of it was there was a lot of awkward situations in which one of us wiffed and we were like: ok block!.....okay guess I'll start att- *hit by 6D* oh goddammit! Y'know, those types of deals. Alright thanks for the help, I see what I can do with all of this.

[legacy49i]

Anothing tip regarding Noel 6D:

 

Something I've noticed, is 6D will work in 2 common scenarios:  If Azrael wake-up DP (Whatever that move is where he creates that aura), then a well-timed 6D will beat that.  Also, if we wake-up backdashes or forward dashes, some things can happen.  The forward movement of 6D will cause 6D to catch the backdash on recovery.  In the event that he tries to cross-up, the 6D will whiff, but the 2nd Drive move (I usually go d.6B) will land.

 

I'm sort of picking this off the top of my head.  I'm not 100% on these, but I feel like that's what happens when I'm playing against Azrael.  I suppose you should take these with a grain of salt until someone can validate how useful or true these are.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though 4D is really good, 6D is also good in other situations.