[CP] Noel Vermillion - Gameplay Discussion

[Ayane]

I mean you could but JP has a year of experience over us.

[LunaKage]

It's Noel man, the tech is all the same as long as you're watching good American Players.

 

Japanese Noels haven't really impressed me lately, Tetsu Yarou was godlike, but as far as I know he switched to Kokonoe.

[Ayane]

There hasn't been many good videos in 1.1. But Jourdal put this up recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06zS9i6OZkI I still think the good JP Noels are better than us. There just hasn't been much footage of them lately. Tech doesn't really mean much for Noel either imo. She's more about fundamentals and idk of any American Noels that are crazy good at that, also matchups. The Noel's in that video are super mashy though so maybe you will like that lol.

[LunaKage]

Tech is mostly what you get from watching videos of Noel though. That's the point I was making. It doesn't matter how good JP Noels block, it's not gonna help you block just by watching it.

 

Videos may help you a bit with matchups, but nothing beats EXP, if you wanna learn matchups, you gotta play those matchups. Same thing with fundamentals and neutral, you need practice, watching a video isn't gonna help you.

[Ayane]

I got lots of ideas for MUs from watching videos but w/e. Maybe some people just want to watch Noel vids when they are bored.

[LunaKage]

I can relate to that, and personally I'd rather watch JP, but for general users, choosing good American Noel players isn't a bad idea either.

 

As far as JP goes though, DWB keeps the Noel video thread updated, so that's probably your best bet unless you wanna scour through everything Jourdal uploads, or lurk Nico etc.

[Ayane]

Yea I've been trying to post to the 1.1 video thread when I find good ones as well. But since Jourdal normally lists player names in the descriptions you can actually just search his YT channel for the players and they should come up.

[Arcus Diabolus]

speaking of 1.1, does anyone know what the new tier list is?

[LunaKage]

I saw on twitter that it was something like:

 

S Tier: Kokonoe, Azrael, Someone else who I can't remember

A Tier: Everyone else

B Tier: Makoto

 

I forgot who the third S tier was.

[stickystaines]

Litchi was the third

[Arcus Diabolus]

So Bullet and Izayoi are in the same tier as Hakumen, Valkenhayn and Hazama? 

 

If this is a legit tier list I am going to be so happy. Buff the squirrel and we would have 2 tiers. 

[Arcus Diabolus]

we would actually be prompt to make sub tiers just for the sake of having a tier list if Arsys does it right. 

 

Not the biggest fan of tier lists as they show how unblanaced a game is, so the less of them we have, the more balanced it is and the happier I get in the process.

 

Take Smash Bros for example, a game my friends play a ton. It has 8 tiers to BB's current 4 and soon to be 3

[Ayane]

TBH I think that tier list was instantly regarded as wrong by a lot of the players in jp. It was the tier list that arcadia or something made right? Although I have been hearing that 1.1 is more balanced than 1.0 even w/o Koko. To me setplay characters will always be a tier above the rest. How can you not care what ur opponent is going to do or wants to do and still just beat them? That's top tier imo (Litchi, Carl, Kokonoe, Rachel).

[Adsfzxczxc]

 

TBH I think that tier list was instantly regarded as wrong by a lot of the players in jp. It was the tier list that arcadia or something made right? Although I have been hearing that 1.1 is more balanced than 1.0 even w/o Koko. To me setplay characters will always be a tier above the rest. How can you not care what ur opponent is going to do or wants to do and still just beat them? That's top tier imo (Litchi, Carl, Kokonoe, Rachel).

 

Then why is Valkenhayn considered top in 1.0 then? He doesn't have setplay, not in the sense that those characters do but he was considered to be the best character in the game before Kokonoe. Well, what does he have instead then? He has a crazy vortex, and ridiculous neutral with his wolf mobility, and essentially no noticeable down time on his wolf form. Setplay is good, really good infact, and if a character's ability to get into this setplay isn't shafted, then said character will always remain good i.e. Litchi.  You are right, if you can essentially ignore all the opponents options and run your game all the time, top tier is the slot for you. However setplay only ignores most of the opponents options on a knockdown, and only in certain situations i.e in the corner, sandwiched between the doll and carl, rachel has to have summons and wind. Compare that to Valk who ignores your entire neutral game, forces blocking into a complete guessing game, can even beat other defensive options like reversal with tricky movement, and his weakness in his defensive game are overshadowed by the fact that he has this insane offensive game. He ignores what opponents can do, essentially all the time and that's what makes him good, despite his lack of setplay (his oki game is still really good though).

 

And yes the tier list was made by Arcadia. 

>Rachel in the same tier as Bullet

>This tier list is so wrong

[Sashi]

It's okay, no one takes Arcadia lists seriously.

[Ayane]

 

 

 

Then why is Valkenhayn considered top in 1.0 then? He doesn't have setplay, not in the sense that those characters do but he was considered to be the best character in the game before Kokonoe. Well, what does he have instead then? He has a crazy vortex, and ridiculous neutral with his wolf mobility, and essentially no noticeable down time on his wolf form. Setplay is good, really good infact, and if a character's ability to get into this setplay isn't shafted, then said character will always remain good i.e. Litchi.  You are right, if you can essentially ignore all the opponents options and run your game all the time, top tier is the slot for you. However setplay only ignores most of the opponents options on a knockdown, and only in certain situations i.e in the corner, sandwiched between the doll and carl, rachel has to have summons and wind. Compare that to Valk who ignores your entire neutral game, forces blocking into a complete guessing game, can even beat other defensive options like reversal with tricky movement, and his weakness in his defensive game are overshadowed by the fact that he has this insane offensive game. He ignores what opponents can do, essentially all the time and that's what makes him good, despite his lack of setplay (his oki game is still really good though).

 

And yes the tier list was made by Arcadia. 

>Rachel in the same tier as Bullet

>This tier list is so wrong

 

vortex is setplay. Also he has dumb normals and redic movement. Much like the other top tiers. Also you have to guess right like 8 times vs Rachel with full wind to get out of her setplay. And she will have george at the end of every combo ready for you or at least a pumpkin.

 

And I was talking about 1.1 anyway...

 

Also I wasn't saying that you HAVE to be a setplay character to be top tier ex: Hakumen. But setplay is such a solid thing to have that you can change so many things about the character and it won't matter as long as they have that.

[Arcus Diabolus]

The change to MF kinda irks me. Its only 500 damage, but it still make me feel a lot smaller somehow. I was hoping the damage would at least hover in the 1300 area despite the 1000 minimum, since its not that far into my combo, but ehh. 

 

Also, since I'm unable to complete this combo at the moment (I keep hiccuping at RC>214A), would someone who can mind doing it for me and telling me the final damage output? 

 

6B>5D>d.5C>d.6C>d.5C>d.6C>236D>RC>214A>2B>6C>6B>6D>d.6B>d.5C>d.6B>236D or Fenrir.

 

Thank you very much. 

[Kamuisito]

The change to MF kinda irks me. Its only 500 damage, but it still make me feel a lot smaller somehow. I was hoping the damage would at least hover in the 1300 area despite the 1000 minimum, since its not that far into my combo, but ehh. 

 

Also, since I'm unable to complete this combo at the moment (I keep hiccuping at RC>214A), would someone who can mind doing it for me and telling me the final damage output? 

 

6B>5D>d.5C>d.6C>d.5C>d.6C>236D>RC>214A>2B>6C>6B>6D>d.6B>d.5C>d.6B>236D or Fenrir.

 

Thank you very much. 

 

 

Do note that the base damage for MF in combo was increased to 2500 (guess this is new as I remember it doing 1500 always and now it does 1840 after CH 5C), so doing MF after a CH 5C does a lot of damage.  Anyways, for your combo it does 5382 with Fenrir finish and 4472 with spring raid ender.  I did spring raid as ender as SMP prevents second hit from Bloom trigger to connect.

[legacy49i]

Should end with Chamber Shot instead of Spring Raid. It's usually the better option.

[Justice7541]

Anyone figured out any CT stuff worth doing in Drive? Being able to fit CT into midscreen combos for extra damage would be a big deal.

[eLPointe]

Has anyone been able to figure out the new mission 30 for Noel in CP 1.1, you have to score an 8k combo. So far, the best I can manage is 7,850. With not being able to do double Fenrir, it's pretty tough.

[legacy49i]

If I were to guess, I'd say it would require:

 

-5C CH - Muzzle Flitter

-Corner

-Crush Trigger

-Overdrive

-Fenrir Finisher

 

Although I don't know how CT works in 1.1.  I'm just assuming that you need pretty much ALL your resources, and a very favorable setup to do it.

 

Edit:

 

Actually, aren't there high damaging combos off of unrealistic setups, like getting a raw Counter Hit on the rocket finisher of Thor in the corner?

[eLPointe]

the best starter for the combo is 5c(counter)>214a>5b>5c>sj.c>j.d>D.6c...
I can't figure out how to implement the new crush trigger into her drive strings, so far it's a great tool while pressuring to throw out there for some free damage but to extend combos...I have nothing yet.

[LunaKage]

I put mine in my new combo video (COMING SOON)

 

But I'll give you a hint, it's not a CH 5C starter.

 

Another hint: it doesn't involve Muzzle Filter.

[GreeniX]

I just pieced together something for Challenge #30.

 

(corner yourself) CH 5C 214A 5B 5D d.623D 5C jC jD d.6D d.6B d.5C d.6B d.236D 6C(2) j236236D 66 6632146D (As in, airdash after Thor, land, microdash Fenrir. Sometimes the microdash isn't needed because of the moment you airdashed I guess?)

 

I'm sure this isn't optimal, but I couldn't find a way to rack up the damage with a Crush Trigger high enough so that one OD Fenrir would do the trick. The combo the game gives as a sample is indeed from a CH OD Thor rocket, and also seems to rely on the fact that challenge mode refills Noel's meter before the rocket hits so that's kind of stupid.

 

Edit: OK I got something simpler to execute. (corner yourself) CH 5C 214A 5B 5D d.623D 6C(1) 5A+B 5C sjC(3) d.6D d.6B d.5C d.6B d.236D 6C(1) 632146D You need all the hits from jC or it won't go over 8k damage