[CP] Noel Vermillion - Gameplay Discussion

[LunaKage]

Azrael's just gonna be mashing Growler like a New England Silly Nanny.

[legacy49i]

Ok, so I tested it, and you're right. 5 frames will win. 6 frames and you get an unfavorable exchange. I must've always been mashed by 5 frame pokes. Or my memory just sucks. Or maybe it was a previous game version with different frame data.

[Vgundam29]

Ok im new to this game I have been playing for about 2 days now. I have a decent number of her combo strings down. have a few questions on the timing I guess.

 

how do you actually confirm hits into these. maybe it is just because I'am new, but I cant even get these combo's started on the computer, and online is a nightmare. I have watched some vids of Asian players playing noel. and it seems like the whole match they are dodging, defending most of the time just trying to find a drive confirm to mixup into a 6D>22C or d.6B>d.6A>d.5B>214A, into corner, blowing them up from crazy,fast mixups. like how do you connect, say 5-B>6A>6C>(fill in string). any time I try this it seems like 6C whiffs. Also is it just me or can you not do that starter string without dashing into them. if I walk up and stand next to them, stop, then input the commands 2C whiffs everytime, no matter how fast I buffer.` if I try dashing in I just get stuffed lmao.... I'am so bad!

 

I am also have a lot of difficulties with the 66>5B>5C>Sjc follow up from d.6B>d.6A>d.5b>214A. any tips, special tips to this. (other than grinding the timing out >.> already doing that)

and if someone could be so kind as to point me to the most optimal BnB combo's so I can get those down 100% would be appreciated. as well as the most efficient corner strings. I have seen so many variation of combo's its hard to figure out the better ones from the pointless ones. I have seen some vids online where they are blowing 100 heat and OD to put out 4k dmg..... I didn't really see the point in that combo other than it looked flashy.

 

again THANK YOU if you could be so kind for you help. looking forward to talking with this community. I really like blazblue have been out of fighting games for about 4 yrs now. watch Evo. now I have the itch again lol. I am planning on going to Evo next year!!!!!

[LunaKage]

That's a loaded set of questions for a completely new player, but I'll give you a couple of short tips to help you out.

 

Noel's game is to get in and start running her shit, once you land that first good hit, you just keep comboing into oki, and running your mixup. A perfectly done Noel round will usually look like a complete slaughter, because she relies on hard reads, but gets good reward from them. Drive mixups, roll punishing, burst baiting, and making DPs whiff so that your opponent doesn;t get a chance to cancel them with Meter, is usually what Noel plans on doing the whole match.

 

As far as optimal combos, just look at our combo thread, the damage numbers is still from 1.0, but all the combos still work, and are your best bet for oki and damage.

 

To help with the 66 > 5B > 5C > sj.C combos, just use 66 > 5B > sj.C instead, it's a lot more consistent.

 

And DON'T use 5B > 6A > 6C, there's no reason to do that now, just do 5B > 6A > sj.C etc.

[GreeniX]

Hi! Welcome to the Noel boards, where we hide from the rest of the world because they think we're all mindless mashers.

 

Hitconfirming as Noel is pretty weird! Most of the safe normals you can use won't lead to much of a combo unless you're really close or hitconfirm a crouched opponent. I once wrote a post on ways to combo as a freshly starting out Noel, I guess this is kind of relevant here. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/7149-cp-noel-vermillion-combo-thread-work-in-progress/page-4#entry791090 (not sure if the link will work for everyone, it's post #98 in the Combo Thread).

 

The overall best midscreen followups to jD are d.6B d.6C d.2D d.6B 22C 66 6C(1) 6B 22B, or d.2D d.6B (d.5C d.6B) 22C 66 6C(1) 6B 22B if you want to sideswitch and maintain a good stage positioning. There are ways to extend this if you want to sacrifice momentum and do the most damage like changing the end to 6C(1) 5D (d.5C) d.6B (d.5C d.6B) d.236D. Moves in parentheses may not combo depending on specific characters, combo length and height of the juggled character. Try it out and see what works when.

 

Corner enders give more freedom and really depend on a lot of factors, so what I'm going to say isn't always optimal. If you didn't use d.236D prior to jD, end the combo with jD d.4D d.2D (d.5C) d.6B d.236D 6C(2) 6B 22B, or if you really have a lot of combo time left, jD d.4D d.2D (d.5C) d.6B d.236D (66) 6C(1) 4D d.214D (66) (2B) 6C(2) 6B 22B. If you did need to use d.236D prior to jD, the most damage you can get usually looks like jD d.5C d.6A d.5C (d.5A) 22B (2B 6C(2) 6B 22B). Stuff in parentheses depends on combo length and character specific needs to adjust your combo.

 

As for your specific questions... first of all, don't use 2B/5B 6A 6C into stuff, instead use 2B/5B 6A sjC jD into stuff. You can do this form farther away, and if it's blocked the same timing of button presses will net you 6A 5C, which you can gatling into other stuff to make yourself safe or continue pressure. It should be said that using this string and hitting is kinda rare because it's not much of a mixup and will only work when your opponent is in your face, not blocking.

 

The dash 5B followup to wallslam 236A (Optic Barrel) is a thing that's harder on some characters and which may be more lenient if you got a higher wallbounce. However it's pretty much always possible to do unless you had your back to the corner, so you need to grind that timing out, sorry... I will say, though, I never do 5B 5C, I go straight for 5B sjC jD, which is a little less damage but is way more consistent. I should also note that you don't NEED to d.6B before the drive string to wallslam, anything that combos into d.6A d.5B on grounded opponent works, or anything that juggles into 2 hits of d.5B is fine. The latter one needs adjustments depending on the situation, most of the times a string like d.6B d.5C (delay) d.5B 236A should work if you're already hitting an aerial opponent in a drive chain.

 

Also. The times you'll see the best use out of Noel's Overdrive is when you want to convert a situation that doesn't grant a juggle into some real damage, like say 5B 5C OD 5C 5D d.623D into stuff. As of BBCP 1.1 it's not really worth it to OD in combos that are already juggling opponents.

 

If you have other questions, ask away! Here's to hoping this isn't confusing you further...

[Sashi]

Isn't it better to do dash 5C after 236A?

[GreeniX]

It would be better but it's also a move that's 3 frames slower. If you're able to land it, go for it, but 5B is easier and amounts to very comparable damage.

[LunaKage]

Just as a side note Greenix, the d.2D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > 22C combo doesn't actually work on everyone, some characters it does work on but you need to delay the 22C, and some characters it will just work on no matter what. The safe bet is to just use d.2D > d.6B > 22C, and if you make it all the way to the corner, you can usually add a 2B > 6C(2) > 6B > 22 to kinda make up the missing damage a bit.

 

For optimal corner carry on a side switch, you usually wanna use d.2D > d.5B > 214D, if you make it to the corner you can complete the combo with 2B > 6C(2) > 6B > 22 if you did it late in the combo (such as after a 236A > 665B link), or you can do 2B > 6C > 6B > 4D > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22 if you did the cross over early in the combo, such as after a 5B > 6A > sj.C combo path. Note that this particular method wont work for Short starters, like 5A and grabs and such.

[Vgundam29]

Thank you so much. It is all very helpful. And no it didn't confuse me. But a new problem arose lol.

A/2A,5B,5C,234C,RC,66,5B,....... WTF lol this link o.o. I've been in training on jin and its hard as f to connect. I'm using a pad atm.(sold my stick 4 hrs ago) I'm getting a qanba next Mont (prob the ego one, I like the artwork) but this is very painful to connect. can you even link this l, like say, max distance 2A,5B,5C,234C,RC,66,5B ?

[GreeniX]

Ooh yeah, sorry about that, Luna, you're right. I remember it being finicky on Hakumen and others, I believe? I'll edit that part. Recently I've been using corner carry routes myself anyway so I didn't remember. Whenever I feel like I need a sideswitch, it's because I'm close enough that d.5B d.214D will grant the corner. Most of the time I go for d.2D d.6A d.5C d.5B d.214D, as that seems to works most of the times and adds damage and carry in the right direction, but I haven't tested this on all of the cast.

 

Thank you so much. It is all very helpful. And no it didn't confuse me. But a new problem arose lol.
A/2A,5B,5C,234C,RC,66,5B,....... WTF lol this link o.o. I've been in training on jin and its hard as f to connect. I'm using a pad atm.(sold my stick 4 hrs ago) I'm getting a qanba next Mont (prob the ego one, I like the artwork) but this is very painful to connect. can you even link this l, like say, max distance 2A,5B,5C,234C,RC,66,5B ?

 

First of all, I don't recommend using 236C RC combos off of short starters like 5A, 2A or jA. Most of the times I'd either go for guaranteed damage without using resources and end it on 236C, or go for a reset, because that's what Noel does best. Even if you ARE hitting the opponent with your normals, doing something that will uncombo but potentially give way better damage is very frequent. Say, from 5C, go into 6B for a high, or 6D/214A for a low/"low", or straight into 5D/2D to start drive pressure and have access to d.6B which is a way better overhead than normal 6B. Go for the 236C RC combo if you can confirm from a better starter like 5B/2C 5C 236C or if it's going to kill.

 

As for landing it at max distance, well... that's kind of character specific as well, in a way? Because the "max distance" isn't the same on everyone. 5C 236C will miss on some characters at from farther away, but will combo on certain other characters from very far away, and in these situations RC 66 5B is pretty much impossible. On other characters even max distance 5C 236C for them can be RC'd and hit by dash up 5B. So what's consistent in this is the distance at which you 236C RC determines how easy it will be to pickup. A fun thing about Noel is that most of the times, when you're landing a real juggle combo with a launcher and jD, she's limited by the combo timer more than by her moveset. What this means is that if you confirm into 236C RC really early, you give up on damage from your early normals, but you can make up for it by extending the end of your combo. This means confirming into 236C RC as soon as possible in a combo not only makes it easier, but doesn't affect overall damage much.

[LunaKage]

236C > RC > 66 5B is kinda finicky, even I have problems with it sometimes. I usually only do it if the combo is gonna kill midscreen, but in the corner I'll do it if the starter was good enough. Hell, in the corner even a 2A starter will get you about 3+k in the corner into oki, but you gotta make a split second choice since that meter loss is gonna affect your options big time going forward.

 

I miss CS meter gain ;w;

[RWA Announcer]

Looks like we've got some final, definitive Noel changes for BBCP 2.0, and them seem pretty good to me!

 

Noel:

 

5D now Fatal Counters

 

XI. Optic Barrel (236A/B) can now be dash-canceled

 

Chamber Shot (236C) is now easier to use?  I guess that's referring to its comboability or something?

[Sashi]

It looks like it had less knockback, so 236C RC combos should be easier. It also seems to combo into 5A at the wall.

 

Probably a lot of hidden changes, too, though.

[LunaKage]

Interesting. Are there any more reported changes?

[confusedxphreak]

Watched a Noel on stream and noted some things:

 

-BT doesn't look like it can be followed up in corner due to quicker wall splat/bounce, so Chamber Shot replaces it in the corner

-Saw a lot of d.5B>236A>66>5A>5C>stuffs, so I don't know if you can follow the dash cancel with anything other than a 5A now

-Saw this combo being used: 3C>22C>66>5B>5C>j.2C>j.4D>stuffs

[Litherain-XIII]

you can follow up the d.5B>236A>66>5A>5C with a 2A > 6C i saw it before. Everything else is right. changes i saw :

 

j.4D was  buffed. it now auto tracks opponents and is faster now. invincibility is unknown atm. this is used to replace the j.D route in our combos usually by 236A > dash cancel > 5a > 5C > j.2C > j.4D > stuff.

 

j.D is nerfed by having its forward momentum thrust taken away from 1.1 so now it resemble a stationary j.D which explains why j.C > j.D doesnt work most of the time. SPECUALTION that you may have to super jump into a j.C and cancel into a j.D off the first hit of j.C or the 2nd hit of j.C to make j.D connect now if you want it to work.

[LunaKage]

Needing to use 5A in all of our BnBs is gonna hurt our damage... again.

 

I haven't seen a full combo though, so who knows I guess. I'm gonna assume it's possible to do j.C > j.2C > j.4D in combos. Which would be fine. I'm just hoping our damage isn't even more pitiful on confirms, since j.D was one of our more damaging drive attacks. 

[Litherain-XIII]

CP2 noel change Update: seen noel can special cancel drive on whiff now. 5D > chamber shot on whiff confirmed. not sure if its the drive starters only but this is wats seen.

 

EDIT: Also 5D seems to have no guardpoint or invuln. she tried it a few times got CH out of it in the beginning startup frames and later frames as well.

 

J.D on counter hit seems to cause auto float ground bounce on standing opponents

 

Also ive seen noel do a 6B > 5D seemingly with no delay of 5D and it didnt combo as a red beat anymore. ive only saw it once but if this is a legit change....well...fuck.

[L0n3l1eR]

its me or thor and fenrir combo has been reduced? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dO_ZEpLdtwU#t=1793

[LunaKage]

I wouldn't worry about that, the combo in the video is j.B > 5A > 5B > 5C > Rambo Combo

 

j.B is a very poor starter, and adding that 5A afterwards really hurts the combo.

[Ichipoo]

http://youtu.be/0QaN5zTGt38?t=6m9s

 

3.8k off of a 5C starter hitting an airborne opponent, all thanks to her new j2C > j4D route. Has decent corner carry too.

[LunaKage]

We got around that much in CP, except we also got 22B oki off of it.