[CP] Noel Vermillion - Gameplay Discussion

[Wild Candy]

I've only really played CSE Noel and CP Noel, but I think I like CP Noel a little better considering CP Noel can actually special cancel her drives into some more versatile combos.

[dualseeker]

Compared to CS:EX Noel, CP Noel is definitely better. However there are still some things I dislike about CP Noel... But overall I like it, even if her Silencer combos are literally the most frustrating thing to do right now.

[Wild Candy]

I always thought her 4D combos were a lot more challenging then the C silencer combos in CP. The dash cancel timing was a little hard at first, but Now I got it down like a science.

[Litherain-XIII]

I agree with Luna on the concept build of noel regarding CP. I personally felt like EX noel could do virtually everything better than CP noel with the exception of how chamber shot turned every hit confirm or random ones into combos, her new oki and faster drives, and lastly how her drives can go through counter assaults , dps, distortions, etc. But that only became possible in CP ONLY because they nerfed the attributes of attacks in the game in general that normally would otherwise still beat her drives like in the past. Example would be hakumen's 5C which beat both 4D and 2D and 6D. Didn't matter what drive you pulled out. Your ass was grass the second he decided to hit 5C on your wake up all you could do was block or mash out fenrir. So on that note that was an unintentional buff to her drives to have that effect now in CP or at least that's the impression I get. I highly doubt Mori would literally take the time to nerf more than half the casts attack attributes just to justify her drives to be a "better" reversal option on purpose for design reasons.

[Wild Candy]

Well, I just played against our neighborhood mod, LunaKage, and not only kicked my ass, but he cut it up and served it to me in a 5 course meal on silver platters.

Joking aside, I think I really need to be more careful about my drive pressure and how many gaps I leave open, because I kept on getting 4D'ed for free. I also should use Bullet Storm a little less, cause afterwhile, Luna was able to punish me when I used it.

Hopefully my Noel starts to improve as the year passes on. I'll just have to practice some more.

[LunaKage]

You'll get there man, just keep at it :3

[blackhybrid]

I always thought her 4D combos were a lot more challenging then the C silencer combos in CP. The dash cancel timing was a little hard at first, but Now I got it down like a science.

Yea its not that hard to do once you get it down but I still have a hiccup every now and then which causes sadface. I still have trouble doing anything after landing a 3C on my opponent. Sometimes I can get out a C silencer and dash cancel but then whatever comes out afterwards usually whiffs. I think 3C>C Silencer> 66~6C>Stuff should be possible right? if not then lol. I just feel kind of limited to my options when I'm pressuring.

[dualseeker]

Sometimes I can get out a C silencer and dash cancel but then whatever comes out afterwards usually whiffs. I think 3C>C Silencer> 66~6C>Stuff should be possible right? if not then lol. I just feel kind of limited to my options when I'm pressuring.

This is my problem entirely with it. Sometimes the 6C after the 22C whiffs, and I don't really know why. It's cost me so many matches X__X. Another thing is that after hitting 6C, the opponent would be too far away for j.D to connect. I'm wondering if it's possible to go for 6C>5D instead in those cases where the opponent is too far away for j.C to hit them.

Another big thing I'm having a problem with is dealing with people in the air. I really need to work on punishing people who just abuse aerials a lot, because right now I'm getting owned by them. Can't seem to use 6A well either... Whenever I use 6A I get counter hit by whatever aerial move I'm trying to anti-air. Have the properties for 6A changed? Because I can barely use it the way I used to now.

[Demon Wind Bomb]

This is my problem entirely with it. Sometimes the 6C after the 22C whiffs, and I don't really know why. It's cost me so many matches X__X. Another thing is that after hitting 6C, the opponent would be too far away for j.D to connect. I'm wondering if it's possible to go for 6C>5D instead in those cases where the opponent is too far away for j.C to hit them.

Another big thing I'm having a problem with is dealing with people in the air. I really need to work on punishing people who just abuse aerials a lot, because right now I'm getting owned by them. Can't seem to use 6A well either... Whenever I use 6A I get counter hit by whatever aerial move I'm trying to anti-air. Have the properties for 6A changed? Because I can barely use it the way I used to now.

Yeah it is possible to do 22C > 6C > 5D. I use it all the time although I wouldn't call it the optimal combo router.

As for people who abuse aerial normals I normally use j.A or j.C to beat them. 6A hasn't change much from previous games but it won't work all that well if the opponent is right on top of you.

[dualseeker]

Yeah it is possible to do 22C > 6C > 5D. I use it all the time although I wouldn't call it the optimal combo router.

As for people who abuse aerial normals I normally use j.A or j.C to beat them. 6A hasn't change much from previous games but it won't work all that well if the opponent is right on top of you.

Alright thanks. Even if it isn't the most optimal combo route, it's preferable to having the combo drop from j.D not connecting.

I'll keep j.A and j.C in mind. However I'm still unsure if that will work against things like Kagura j.C or Ragna j.C, or any aerial hitbox that's ridiculously large. I've just gotta find a way to deal with opponents right above me, I guess... Ugh, I don't feel like I can explain any of this well enough X__X.

[HexaNoid]

6C > j.D always connect if you super jump cancel the 6C. Or rather, it should do unless something's changed about it.

Also, Noel's air throw is really good and will typically land you a much stronger (and easier to confirm) combo. You should try abusing that too if you're having trouble AAing opponents from the ground.

[dualseeker]

Now that you mention air throws, there's something I've been wanting to ask about it. Noel's air throw becomes impossible to follow up if it's used too high in the air right? Sometimes I've landed air throws on people, but they tech out before I'm able to land on the ground and throw out a move because it happened to high in the air. Is there no way to follow it up if you're that high off the ground?

[HexaNoid]

I've never experienced that myself, but you could pick it up with j.D if that ever happens. The combo will obviously be a lot worse, but what're you gonna do?

[dualseeker]

I may be just mistiming it, but I've tried using j.D before instead of waiting, but that hasn't worked sometimes either. I'll have to go into training mode and really test it out sometime.

[LunaKage]

j.D will work at any height, you just have to wait for Noel to drop a bit so j.D's hitbox will connect. It's not even that worse of a combo, since you can add more drives due to less time taken.

[mMarikom]

I dunno if it's because CP as a whole "feels" different to me or if this is rust talking but...my neutral game is horrible as of late. I was playing a Jin player earlier and could neither open up nor get in for anything. The player was solidly defensive so shenanigans weren't an option and the more and more I would try honest pressure the more he would just...block and I would just get depressed and end up slipping up somewhere and getting punished. I think I might be in a slump but how are you guys doing in neutral with Noel against solid blockers (I'm not too knowledgeable about CP stuff yet because of school and I've been on a long FG hiatus but I feel like ass at it...and it's kinda getting me down because I've played this character for 5 years I shouldn't be having these problems...)

[LunaKage]

The key is to get them to block a drive starter. From there you just try to mix them up with d.6D or d.6B. It seems like using drive and spacing with j.C hoping to get an air CH is all Noel tries to do in this game.

[Wild Candy]

So does Noel have any decent safe jump set ups or moves that can be used as Oki.

I'm always really puzzled what to do after a knock down.

[dualseeker]

One thing I remember is that in the corner, if you know your opponent is going to roll forward to try and get out, you can use j.4D to punish that and get a free combo.

On knockdown though I think what you should be looking for is trying to get a 2B hit reset, or trying to make them respect you on wake up. If you can keep your opponent in the corner blocking, being afraid of you, then that's a small victory for you. You can then try a number of things once you get that to happen; you can try to use 6B once they wake up if you KNOW they are just going to sit there. You can also try to tick grab, do j.C>j.4D, a number of things really. A big thing about deciding WHAT to do to an opponent when they are knocked down is really personal. Once you play a lot of games/look at other Noels play and how they handle it, you'll be able to find out what you want to use and how you want to handle the situation.

What I said earlier is just a few ways to handle a knockdown situation, there are plenty plenty more ways that will become apparent as you play more.

[Wild Candy]

Okay, I'm aware of the 6B meaty, but that always feels a little situational to me. I never actually thought to try a 2B meaty though, so I'll give it a shot.

[dualseeker]

6B meaty is situational, it's why I said you should only use it if you know your opponent is just going to sit and block low when they wake up. 2B meaty is safer though, and it will catch people rolling if you time it right.

[mMarikom]

I'm pretty sure j.C kara cancelled j.D is a safejump...

[Demon Wind Bomb]

Noel (BBCP2?) changes

Counter Assault – Improved hitbox of the attack portion

Crash Trigger – Changed hit property to a ground bounce, can now be canceled into during Chain Revolver strings

(During Chain Revolver) 6C – reduced the trajectory of the thrown gun, can now hit with all hits easier

Type Nine – Muzzle Flitter – Damage, proration have been adjusted. When it hits raw, it deals more damage, but during a combo, it deals less

Type Zero – Fenrir – If the first hit hits an airborne opponent, it will force them to the ground and allow the super to hit fully

So what does everybody think about the changes to Noel?

[Appledash-]

I like the crush (crash?) trigger change. Mmore options during drive pressure and maybe combo stuff too.

Thoughtful of them to do make fenrir force ground.

Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk

[blackhybrid]

Yea the Crush trigger change I like. Overall I like, I have no complaints. I wonder how much less damage MF will deal during combo.